You're being overly paranoid about it.

That said, there is a similar station near me - about 10 cents cheaper than anyone else - has Exxon signs out front and on the pumps, then Exxon was covered over, then Exxon was uncovered again.

Personally, I don't trust it and don't buy gas there.

I like to run top-tier, but I often run Kroger - which is not top-tier and no issues.

Personally, I just look for big stations which have a high volume (Kroger, QT, Racetrac (also not top-tier), rather than little quick-mart stations that might have older/water gas and I try not to fill up when the tanker truck is at the station.

If you are really worried, you can put a can of techron complete fuel system cleaner in before each oil change (I do that), but I don't think you really have to.

(And my car is GDI, so I am at more risk from bad fuel than you probably are.)

 

I like to run top-tier, but I often run Kroger - which is not top-tier and no issues.

Personally, I just look for big stations which have a high volume (Kroger, QT, Racetrac (also not top-tier), rather than little quick-mart stations that might have older/water gas and I try not to fill up when the tanker truck is at the station.

If you are really worried, you can put a can of techron complete fuel system cleaner in before each oil change (I do that), but I don't think you really have to.

Good deal. And yes, I don't fill up when the truck is there. I've pretty much sworn myself to only using the top-tier stuff because my wife's Jeep Cherokee, many years ago, would always knock and run rough if I used a local Racetrac. Fill it up with BP, or Chevron, etc, and it would smooth out. Since that time, I've just stayed away from the off-brand gas. I typically hit QT most of the time.

As for the fuel system additive (I've never used those), why do you do it before an oil change and not immediately after?

:liebe011:

 

I use cheap gas, but only from high volume stores. I avoid the little shops that don't turn their gas over frequently.

I also use Techron, but only every 10k miles or so. The problem with Techron (I believe is best btw) or any other fuel cleaner is that it moves the carbon from your ignition/combustion area to the emissions area. This can be problematic for your EGR/IAC or other emission things because they get bound up with carbon that has been moved from the engine to the exhaust re-circulating system. While this won't matter right now, it will at about 100k when you are having check engine lights coming on with codes for emissions stuff.

As for using Techron before an oil change, I guess that would be best to minimize cross contamination with a new batch of oil you are putting in. Basically, you would time it so that your tank of gas with Techron runs out and then you change the oil. Then you have fresh oil and fresh gas that doesn't have cleaning chemicals in it.

 

As for using Techron before an oil change, I guess that would be best to minimize cross contamination with a new batch of oil you are putting in. Basically, you would time it so that your tank of gas with Techron runs out and then you change the oil. Then you have fresh oil and fresh gas that doesn't have cleaning chemicals in it.

Mainly b/c someone in another thread said to, but the GDI engines (not yours) tend to have issues with fuel dilution of the oil, and Techron likely worsens that, so you want to run the Techron out BEFORE you change the oil.

 

I avoid Chevron like the plague, but only because their gas is at least $0.30/gallon more than everywhere else with top-tier gas. I agree with everyone who suggested stick to high-volume stores.

Coming from a Volkswagen 2.0T direct injection, top-tier fuel was an absolute must because of their ridiculous carbon/deposit build-up issues (and even that wasn’t enough). Not sure if the Sport or Eco engines will have these issues, though looking on other Hyundai model forums, it seems Hyundai figured out how to avoid these issues on their DI setups.

Long story short, as @Tiger-Heli said, you’re being overly paranoid. I’m willing to bet the benefits of fuel system cleaner ads and Chevron Techron ads are quite exaggerated.


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I’m hopping over to all the neighbors that have premium cars and siphoning their gas which I’m sure is premium grade considering they’re German cars.

^^ I’m kidding around.

I’m using premium octane TT from Costco at times as well as Shell/Chevron.

I avoid Chevron like the plague, but only because their gas is at least $0.30/gallon more than everywhere else with top-tier gas. I agree with everyone who suggested stick to high-volume stores.

Coming from a Volkswagen 2.0T direct injection, top-tier fuel was an absolute must because of their ridiculous carbon/deposit build-up issues (and even that wasn’t enough). Not sure if the Sport or Eco engines will have these issues, though looking on other Hyundai model forums, it seems Hyundai figured out how to avoid these issues on their DI setups.

I recall my days with my VW CC. I kinda miss the car at times...then again with all the latest tech on the new redesigned Elantra, I’ve gotton over my past relationship with the VW brand.

Funny you’ll pinch those pennies with gas/whatever...but Alcohol is where it’s at when you drop the big bucks (cracking up)

I've used cheap gas and top tier for years. Never noticed any difference. Currently on my Gen Coupe which I use 93 octane in, I've been filling up at a no name use to be Phillips station. The gas mileage and performance are as good as the BP or Phillips stations with the same octane.

IMHO Top Tier fuel is a simple marketing ploy as there is no way to prove what they or non top tier stations add to the fuel.

Here’s the thing- your skills in the garage provide you the ability to take risks :wink: you know I kid.

Back to @Tiger-Heli...long reads and I get your input.

 

I've used cheap gas and top tier for years. Never noticed any difference. Currently on my Gen Coupe which I use 93 octane in, I've been filling up at a no name use to be Phillips station. The gas mileage and performance are as good as the BP or Phillips stations with the same octane.

IMHO Top Tier fuel is a simple marketing ploy as there is no way to prove what they or non top tier stations add to the fuel.

 

...IMHO Top Tier fuel is a simple marketing ploy as there is no way to prove what they or non top tier stations add to the fuel.

It's my understanding that it's more than just marketing. From the top tier gas site, " Nine of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance."


This is the first vehicle I have owned that specifically calls out Top Tier Gas in their owner's manual. It's probably in there because some of their engines are GDI, and so it probably doesn't make a difference for my non-GDI engine, but I am going to follow the manual's instructions anyway. Interestingly, Hyundai is not in the list of automakers, but it's the first vehicle I've had that specifies using Top Tier Gas.


Also my understanding is that Techron contains the detergent properties that are in Top Tier Gas. So filling your tank with gasoline that is not top-tier, and adding Techron, is the equivalent of using Top Tier Gas. I would not use any other additive, because I think most are BS, but I would use Techron if I felt I needed to.

 

I have used fuel system cleaners on the past but not very often. Saw little or no improvements.

You can quote the TT site all you want. The additives are added as the tanker is filled. No way of knowing how much or what. Just like the non TT stations.

All fuels must contain detergents. The ethanol in E10 is a significant cleaner on it's own.

I can say I have never had a fuel problem since fuel injection came on the scene.

 

A couple points - and quoting many people:

IMHO Top Tier fuel is a simple marketing ploy as there is no way to prove what they or non top tier stations add to the fuel.

It's my understanding that it's more than just marketing.

It's a little of both. It's a licensing tool. Think of it the same as Dexos II for oil or API SN, or USDA Organic or Non-GMO project certified for food, or "Made for Windows" for computer hardware. Basically you know you are getting a certain quality with top-tier fuel. With non top-tier, you might be getting less quality than top tier, or you could be getting better quality but the company just didn't want to pay the licensing fee.

So filling your tank with gasoline that is not top-tier, and adding Techron, is the equivalent of using Top Tier Gas.

Probably true, but it's not cost-effective. Techron is $5 per bottle. That's about 50-cents a gallon for me, and the difference between TT and non-TT gas is less than that. And the Hyundai OM only says to use Techron at every oil change and to only do that if you don't exclusively run top-tier gas.

But, I don't have a GDI engine. It prevents carbon build-up in the cylinder head.

This is very debatable. The problem with GDI is the fuel is injected below the intake valve so the fuel (and the Techron) never has a chance to clean the carbon off the intake valve. It can't hurt and it's likely good for the high-pressure fuel pump, but what it does or doesn't do for the intake valves is hard to say ...

 

I have a friend who always used the cheap non top tier stuff. At 80,000 miles, she had tons of engine issues (hesitation, roughness, poor fuel economy). Her mechanic told her to use Shell, BP, Chevron or other Top tier fuel. After 4,000 miles her problem was near gone. I keep hearing stories like this too. I'm sticking to top-tier always.

 

Any product specifically recommended, but not required, by Hyundai is a also a marketing ploy and more than likely a paid one at that.

 

i.e. Techron, Shell or Quaker State oil, etc.

 

The quality of the gasoline distribution system the station is getting gas from is much more important than any pie in the sky standard.

I'm Lucky I guess as for the the most part the gas comes from two pipeline terminals close by. Brand is inconsequential as the difference between brands and the same grade is only the additives. The base gasoline is wholesale sold on the markets and seldom brand specific.

Use to be the BP stations here had two levels of premium, 92 and 93 octane. It came from different pipeline terminals and suppliers. But they have all gone to 93 octane, I don't think the suppliers have changed though.

 

Not in Wisconsin, some kind of fair trade law with gas, or is this a fair screw law, for the same grade of gas, the price is exactly the same regardless of where you go, so only go to the top rated gas stations.

Sure not this way in Portland, OR, prices for regular ranged as much as 70 cents per gallon. Read the fine print on my Thrifty car rental contract, had the option of bringing their toy back with a full tank or having them fill it. If they did it, would charge me ten bucks per gallon, actually $9.99, so found a pantry type store at $2.87 per gallon. For 16 gallons, doing it myself saved me around 114 bucks.

Ha, read the fine print.

See some debate about adding carbon cleaner, nothing I can see on the back of the can that gives specific instructions. Should be on the pumps with E10 gas, should shake your car first before driving it. A 4,200 pound Chrysler was a bit too much for me to shake and E10 is all you can buy in Portland, but what the heck, its a rental, did drive it sanely though. Hitting potholes helps to mix it.

Elly only gets top tier ethanol free gas for her, she loves it, no junk gas for her, no junk food for me.

 

So what are your thoughts on non-ethanol gasoline? The QT right beside where I work offers this and I've always heard that it's better for your engine.

 

What's the price difference? I was running better on Non-E fuel, but it was anywhere from 25-65 cents more per gallon. The nearest station is 112 miles away. I only used it when I went there 3-4 times a month. The increase in fuel economy was not worth the price difference until it fell to below a 15-cent difference.

 

Problem with ethanol, not a homogeneous substance with gasoline, more like mixing motor oil with water. Okay if constantly stirred, where is that mechanism. Use 80 octane gasoline, least around here and add ethanol to bring up the octane rating to at least 87. But if it settles as ethanol is heavier than gas, can really wreck an engine with detonation burning 80 octane.

Farmers around here love it, increases the demand for corn, price of it skyrocketed and can make a lot more money with a lot less work than feeding it to a cow to get milk or beef.

Another way of looking at it is using our food to feed an SUV.

 

If TopTier isn't available, simple dose an FI cleaner, and there is no need to overdose. I also don't bother keeping a bottle in the trunk anymore... I'll just add it while in the driveway, just before or after a trip to the no-name(walmart/samsclub/Ahmed's/Rajas') non-toptier fuel, even though most of my fill-ups are at BP/Shell/Exxon/Chevron. Sometimes you just can't resist the cheaper fuel at the local highway high-volume truck stop or tourist service area.

Redline SI-1 is a good treatment. Use 1 ounce for 6-7 gallons of cheapie fuel. A 15 ounce bottle should last for ~100 gallons. I'd wager that Amsoil PI would work fine with an equivalent dose.
https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=80&pcid=12
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod.../by-product/fuel-additives/gasoline/p-i-performance-improver-gasoline-additive/

Who doesn't have Stabil in the garage/shed?
1 ounce to 10-15 gallons:
https://www.goldeagle.com/product/sta-bil-360-marine
Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment Gas Additive Shooter

FP+ or FP60.... 1 ounce to 5 or 10 gallons of gas:
Lube Control

Or Lucas... a $30 gallon jug treats 400 gallons of gasoline
https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/lucas-fuel-treatment

Gas station "franchises" change all the time. So, either don't worry about it or buy fuel elsewhere.

I'll buy marine gas(nonethanol) when available simply to protest. Its not worth the surcharge around here and every gas station brand sells a different non-ethanol octane rating. So, you never know what you're really getting. The local Chevron has 3 grades 87/89/93 of E10 with Techron and the 90-91 marine gas without Techron. The 93 octane with techron E10 is cheaper than the ethanolfree marine gas. I don't drive enough anymore to worry about fuel cost. Since the non-ethanol fuel is not top tier, it gets a dose of FP60, SI1, PI, Stabil, Lucas, or whatever I have on hand in the garage/shed as I don't have any brand loyalty.

Even Techron doesn't need to be a full dose. All you are doing is spiking the non-toptier fuel to toptierish levels. So, buy your big bottle of techron concentrate, or equivalent, and dose an ounce for every 5-10 gallons of cheap fuel.

A full bottle dose added at the station prior to fill-up is typically used for a complete shock cleanup. Whether TopTier or not, dose it yearly, every oil change, every 2nd oil change .... depending on how many miles you drive. Hopefully toptier reduces the need but plenty of cheap fuel users complaining about vehicle performance over the years. Its a peace of mind cleanup.

BG44k, Gumout Regain, STP Ultra 5in1, and Lubegard Fuel Booster are also good products for full bottle/tank shock treatment or a cost effective 1-3 ounces per fill-up.

 

Ethanol will reduce mileage a bit but you won't really notice it if the octane rating is the same. It is an excellent fuel system cleaner and water absorbed. It will only fall out of suspension if it gets water logged.

 

How about purchasing a 1970 Buick Riviera then two years later, come out with unleaded gas. Low octane, super high combustion temperatures. Kept it running because I could find a 1972 455 intake manifold with the carb and EGR valve on it for ten bucks. Also had to purchase thicker Canadian head gaskets to reduce the compression ratio.

First question in designing an engine is what kind of fuel are you going to use.

Then my 88 Supra, a car I wanted to keep a very long time, only seven years old, suddenly all I could buy around here was E10 that totally destroyed the entire fuel system. It was in storage for many years before I could buy the real stuff again. And E10 conversion kit was or is not available.

Can say the same thing about R-12 refrigerant, banned over night based on some theory by two UCLA guys, never proven it was depleting the ozone layer, no traces of CFC's were found because it is fully biodegradable, R-134a is not, and for the consumer like a single mom the cost for conversion was up to her. The only correct way to do this is from the firewall forward, and components were not even available. The way cars are designed today, need AC, no other means of ventilation with young kids in the vehicle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_the_United_States

Gives the story about ethanol, do we have a government for the people or against us?

Read your owners manual:

"Gasohol, a mixture of gasoline and
ethanol (also known as grain alcohol)
are being marketed along with or
instead of leaded or unleaded gasoline.
For example, "E15" is a gasohol
comprised of 15% ethanol and 85%
gasoline.
Do not use gasohol containing more
than 15% ethanol, and do not use
gasoline or gasohol containing any
methanol. Either of these fuels may
cause drivability problems and damage
to the fuel system, engine control
system and emission control system.
Discontinue using gasohol of any
kind if drivability problems occur."

Read a pump, may contain up to 10% ethanol, can't even get this right, and what difference does the percentage mean, still corrosive, just takes longer with a lower percentage.

Whole idea is to cut our gasoline usage by 10%, but then when looking for a vehicle see, more gas guzzling vehicles than ever before in our history.like giant SUV's and pickups. In Portland, seen thousands of these vehicles with only a single driver. This country is insane and Portland is only one city. Got stuck with that Chrysler 300, drove it sanely with only 23 mpg, really no more space inside than my Elantra, trunk was a bit larger.

Then why gasoline with 5.5 pounds of carbon inside of a 6 pound gallon. Have a known supply 12,000 year supply of methane with a far lower carbon content, but would have to design an engine especially for this fuel or even natural gas.

Could even go back to an external heat engine, but not use steam, use a refrigerant instead heating the refrigerant to only 150*F to get all kinds of torque completely eliminating the transmission. Just have the wrong people running OUR country, and has been this way for a long long time.

 

Ha, if it wasn't for the likes of Harley Davidson, Kiekhaefer Mercury, or other major manufacturers of ATV's, snowmobiles, etc. in Wisconsin, would still be struck with E10.

Practically all stations up north here carry ethanol free gas in only 91 octane, very few with 89, but your Hyundai loves the higher octane, get far more spark advance for a longer combustion cycle. Can only find one ethanol free gas station in the Milwaukee/Madison areas. Really hard on small engines, brass is out as any rubber or neoprene diaphragms, eats those away to nothing.

In terms of emissions, only up to about 10%, rest is still gasoline loaded with carbon. And the price of meats and diary products have skyrocketed, can't afford to eat anymore, just consider the facts.

 

Turbos love E10 gas.

 

Looked today and the non-ethanol is about 30 cents more (2.86, I believe). So at a TT station, are we saying the non-ethanol should also be TT? I still think the answer about the TT gas being part marketing, part fact is the most accurate. At any rate, I don't think the savings on cheap gas warrant not using the TT gas anyway. If the higher levels of detergent are beneficial, then I will do anything I can to give my car even the slightest advantage in lasting for the long haul. That said, if ethanol is a cleaner in itself, is the E10 not a better choice (added MPGs from the non-E10 aside)?

 

At any rate, I don't think the savings on cheap gas warrant not using the TT gas anyway.

Depends - often we save $1 per gallon with Kroger Fuel points. (Buy gift cards at Kroger when they have 4x fuel points for items that we would typical buy without gift cards anyway).

That said, if ethanol is a cleaner in itself, is the E10 not a better choice (added MPGs from the non-E10 aside)?

Essentially, no - but there is more to the answer than just detergents.

 

The argument for ethanol originally was to oxygenate the fuel, this was for carburated engines. With FI and ECU O2 feedback control, no need for the extra O2 as the ECU only gives enough fuel to get the perfect ratio. Then when gasoline was priced so high, it was a way to cheapen the fuel as the ethanol was near a $1 a gallon to make. Currently the E10 is required due to the Renewable Fuel regulations in the US. And when gasoline sales dropping off they wanted to raise the ethanol content to 15% to meet the government required renewable fuel usage. But it really is no more than a government jobs and farmer price support program.

I believe the price ethanol free fuel is so high due to them having to pay carbon credits to sell it.

That being said I've been using E10 gas since the early 80's here in Illinois. Can't say as I've ever had any issues with it in car engines in all that time.

 

TopTier is not a marketing ploy. In the 1990's, to lower the price for poor people, PresidenteBillyBobKlinton reduced the fuel cleanliness requirements leading to numerous issues. Most automakers then created their own standards, their own topend/FI cleaners, and of course recommended certain fuel brands that didn't cut corners. TopTier fuels will typical have ~2.5x the additives that the EPA mandated fuels have. All the EPA has to do is raise the standards back to where it should've stayed at and we wouldn't need toptier.

Hyundai didn't figure out DI any better than any other automaker. Hyundai GDI's have been carbon buildup on their intake valves and ports just like any other brand.

Turbos love octane. E10, with less BTU's per gallon, may reduce knocking tendencies with compared to non-ethanol gas. Less BTU's = less power = less MPG!

I also could care less for what Hyundai does or does not recommend. I have a couple that are falling apart slowly and will maintain it MY way which will lead to a longer life than Hyundai could ever expect.

Hyundai's super duper fuel system service that they'll install for $99:
Link http://www.hyundai-forums.com/sonata-yf-turbo/316105-dealer-recommended-fuel-injection-cleaning.html

Fuel System Service* $136.28

*Remove intake duct and clean throttle plate and bore
*Perform idle learn after throttle plate and bore are cleaned
*Check for any diagnostic trouble coes
*Install fuel additive to clean injectors and intake valves
*Inspect engine air filter and set tire pressure

The above 20oz bottle is sold at walmart and most autopart stores for <$15 as a Chevron Techron or ProGard product.

If you're MPFI, consider yourself lucky.
If you're GDI, remember that Hyundai's GDI is good for you:

Pictures above are from:
link http://www.hyundai-forums.com/yf-20...f-2011-sonata-i45/529281-catch-can-intake-manifold-r-r-valve-cleaning-pics.html

How to clean GDI every 20k-30k miles or couple of years.... btw not known or recommended by Hyundai.... but they can stick it if they think I'm going to pay $1000 for a cleaning at the dealer. Media blasting of the valves and intake ports is now a 'service' for some other makes/models of GDI equipped vehicles.

link http://www.hyundai-forums.com/yf-2011-sonata-i45/557001-2-4gdi-crc-ivd-intake-valve-cleaning.html

Walnut media blasting of intake ports/valves:
link Cleaning Carbon Build-Up from Direct Injection Engines - All Makes and Models

Get a clue. Most who do nothing will post their SES/CEL issues in the future. Many will complain about poor power, hard starting, poor MPG, various error codes.......... which could've been prevented by being proactive now. Forums are full of people with cars with preventable issues. Many simply keep their ostrich heads in a hole and wait for issues.

 

If you're MPFI, consider yourself lucky. If you're GDI, remember that Hyundai's GDI is good for you:

So the MPFI is what I have, right (Elantra Limited, not SPort or Eco)? Essentially, for the long haul, my engine is considered to be pretty problem-free?

I had a 2012 Kia Rio a few years ago with the GDI. Never had any issues, but didn't have it for a long time, either. I've read about the issues that seem to plague them. Was one of the reasons I decided not to buy the Elantra Sport. One of the reasons I went with the Elantra over various competitors was the 6-speed tranny and lack of a CVT. Essentially, the Elantra with MPFI and the 6-speed seemed like a really good combo for what I needed....which is a car that will last as long as I want it to.

 

Yeah really not much reason to continue use of ethanol blended gas - since inception it's been subsidized by the US taxpayer (see link) and the pump price doesn't reflect the true cost .

As far as the TT gas this is a case where I subscribe to what Hyundai advises in the owner's manual - an occasional bottle of fuel cleaner if TT gas isn't used, my SFS gets an annual dose. Supposedly the only difference can be level of detergent added to the fuel and the pictures of valve deposits are an example of marketing where the devil lies in the details as the oil companies don't reveal exactly what conditions the valve with all the deposits experienced.

Federal Subsidies for Corn Ethanol and Other Corn-Based Biofuels | Taxpayers for Common Sense

 

My first FI car was a 89 Mustang 4 cylinder. Since then noting but FIs. I must be one of the luckiest guys around because I always go for the cheap price. TT means nothing around here in Illinois. None of them advertise it locally.

What's in the Hyundai fuel system cleaner? I'm sure they recommend it but they are just marketing and trying to up sell. If it was required they would have to give it as per US law.

 

Yep, MPFI and 6-speed is a good combo.

By coincidence regarding Kroger and GDI: Had the induction service done because my other half never listens... - Kia Forte Forum : Sedan / Koup / Forte5 Forums - I'm not fully convinced personally, but ...

 

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/07/aaa-not-gasoline-created-equal/

http://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf

 

AAA: Not All Gasoline Created Equal | AAA NewsRoom

http://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf

Can I like this post twice? Would much rather base my decision making on an independent study, commissioned by a group whose constituents are vehicle owners, rather than either the oil industry OR the EPA. Thanks for posting this.

 

Most Hyundai turbos say regular is fine and most owners on here say to run premium. I prefer to avoid turbos and not have to worry about it (similar to you with non-GDI and non-CVT.)

Basically, the reports that @Deadrx7 posted said that running ANY grade of TT will counteract the effects of non-TT gas.

In your case, I would probably run regular TT and call it good.

In my case, I'm running a mix of regular TT and regular non-TT, and adding Techron every 5K oil change.

 

Yeah, I will be using only TT from this point forward, so I imagine that should take care of things. I appreciate everyone's input!

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"Recommended": Unleaded gasoline with a Pump Octane Rating of 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher must be used in your Hyundai.

Recommended means the engine won't burn itself out, not that it is the best gas to use. They know there are a lot of people who just run the lowest price fuel they can find, and give a minimum recommendation so you won't ruin the engine with cheap gas.