Ah, your the second Getz driver to join the forum this morning...welcome.

When you make a post asking for help, it's helpful to us out here to know a bit about your car. It's a good idea to add some details of the car to your user profile so it's displayed next to each of your posts. Please follow the instructions in the link below :

http://www.hyundai-forums.com/amica-atoz-forum/announcement-your-details-please-read-take-action.html

The first thing I'd check/double check is that all the induction hoses are fitted properly and sealed. Make sure there isn't air getting in after the MAF sensor and none getting out after the turbo. Check all the vacuum hoses are properly attached.

Also check the throttle valve is fully open when the engine is running. If the valve isn't fully open that would restrict engine speed. It's a vacuum operated valve at the front of the engine (to the right) on the 4 cylinder. I'm not sure about the 3 cyl engine off the top of my head.

Another thing to consider...are you using the fuel injectors from the original engine or injectors that came with the replacement engine? If they're the original injectors, did you refit them to the same cylinder that they were in on the original engine? If different injectors have been fitted or the injectors have been moved to another cylinder they will need recoded to the engine PCM.

Have you checked for trouble codes with a scan tool? Might be worth a look even if the check light isn't coming on.

Oh, and what was the problem with the original engine? Just curious since I drive one myself.

Scottie.

 

Hi Scottie

Thanks for the reply.

It's a 1.5 3 cylinder diesel.

I will check the hoses etc.

I never swapped anything from the old engine to the second hand one. The one I acquired came with the diesel pump and injectors do figured best to leave as is.

The fact that I have not fitted the old injectors or pump will I still require to recode the PCM?

Thanks for your help this far.

Gavin

 

Hi Gavin.

Your in luck as far as the injectors go. I've just checked and it seems the 3 cyl engine uses an earlier version engine management system (Bosch ECD15C-7) than the 4 cyl engine (EDC16C-39), and no injector coding is required.

Well, at least my Bosch service software doesn't mention injector coding in the data for the 3 cyl engine but it does for the 4 cyl. They made the thing, so I guess they know what their talking about

Scottie.

 

Hi Scottie

Thanks again for that.

I meant to say. I bought the car as spares or repair. The previous owner hit a rock in the road and cracked the sump and continued driving and broke the engine.

Gavin

 

Hi Scottie


I have had a look at all the vacuum hoses that I could see and I think they are all ok unless there is a split in one of them that I cant see.


I checked the turbo inlet and output hoses and they also seem secure.


I removed the inlet hose to where I assume is the throttle butterfly I cant imagine there will be other butterflies on the inlet manifold/airflow meter. When I removed it however, I found the butterfly to be fully open? I started the car and expected it to close almost fully but it remained fully open, even when revving it the butterfly never moved, which I thought was most unusual.


Also there is a bit more than usual smoke from the exhaust.


Do you know how many vacuum hoses there is and their locations so I can make sure I have checked them all.


One other thing I should mention. When I replaced the engine, I refilled it with 10w 40 oil, I believe it should be 5w 30. Will this make a significant enough difference to cause a lack of power?


thanks again for your help

Gavin

 

I've attached the air pipe diagram, for what it's worth...not much

There will be vacuum hoses leading to the brake servo, the boost control solenoid, EGR control solenoid, throttle valve control solenoid then from each solenoid to the actuators.

The throttle valve on a diesel engine is quite different to that on a petrol. There shouldn't be any restriction on the air entering a diesel engine. Engine speed is controlled by fuel delivery not by the throttle valve. The throttle valve on a diesel can be thought of as more a strangler valve that stops the engine from breathing. The flap only closes briefly when you turn the engine off to deny the engine air.

I don't think the oil will be the cause of your lack of power.

Scott.

 

Hi Scott




You can tell I haven't worked on cars for a while!!! Of course there is no actual throttle on a diesel.




I will have a check all the vacuum hoses.




Is there anything else you can think of if that doesn't cure it?


Thanks for your patience
Gavin

 

Hi Scott

Checked all of those hoses and everything is ok.

Is it likely to be injectors or pump?

Thanks

 

Do you have a descent diagnostic scan tool? You could use that to have a look at the rail pressure and see if the pump is producing the correct output.
The scan tool usually displays a target or nominal value which is the rail pressure the engine ECM is expecting to see and an actual value which is what the actual achieved rail pressure is. I've attached a screen shot from my 4 cylinder Getz.

If you don't have a scan tool, you can still test the pump using a voltmeter. I use an oscilloscope which lets you record not only the rail pressure but also how quickly the pump is able to build pressure. An oscilloscope is just a fancy voltmeter though, so I don't see why you can't do it with a voltmeter. Preferably one that has the ability to record the MAX/MIN voltages recorded. Your not actually measuring the rail pressure directly but the voltage output of the rail pressure sensor which is how the scan tool knows the pressure anyway. Min pressure in the rail will output a voltage of 0.5V and max pressure should output about 4.5V.

To test the pump with a voltmeter there are a couple of wires you need to identify. On each end of the fuel rail there is an electrical device. One has two wires (the DRV) and the other has three wires (the RPS).

On the DRV (the pressure control solenoid valve), you need to identify the valve control wire. Do that by switching the ignition on and back probe each wire with the voltmeter. One wire will have 12V and the other a lower voltage (it was around 8V on my 4 cyl). The lower voltage wire is the valve control wire. You need to back probe a wire into that terminal. Your going to ground the control wire to force the pressure control valve fully closed so be careful you identify the correct terminal. You defo don't want to short the 12V supply to ground...that would be bad. Back probe a length of wire into the terminal but don't ground it yet.

Next, with the ignition still on, back probe the center pin on the RPS (Rail Pressure Sensor). You should have 0.5V with the Key On Engine Off.

Now start the engine and have a look at the voltmeter. It should be showing about 1.2V at idle - about 250~300 Bar pressure.

Next (a helper will make this bit easier), you want to hold the engine RPM at about 2000RPM. Use a helper or jam the throttle pedal down a little with a screw driver. (I've made a handy little pedal simulator so I can do this solo).

Take a look at the voltmeter again. The voltage should be up to around 1.7~2.0V.

Now get the wire you back probed into the DRV control terminal. While watching the voltmeter, ground the wire and hold it on. The engine will shut down but don't worry that's normal (you've just created an over pressure condition). See what the MAX voltage your meter recorded. You're looking to get about 4.5V and it should start to drop when the engine shuts down. When you remove the control wire from ground the voltage should drop back down to 0.5V again because you've opened the pressure control valve and dumped the pressure back to the tank.

That should confirm if the fuel system is able to build up to the max pressure...1350 Bar on your system.

If the max pressure isn't achieved that still doesn't automatically mean the high pressure pump is the cause. There could be a problem on the low pressure fuel supply to the pump.

I should mention that I've never done this test on an older system like yours but it should work much the same as the later versions. Later version have what is called dual point control of the fuel pressure. Dual point control uses another solenoid valve (called the IMV or inlet metering valve) mounted on the high pressure pump. The IMV controls the amount of low pressure fuel allowed to enter the high pressure pump. Check your pump to see if it has an IMV but I don't see any mention of it in the service info or on the wiring diagram.

I hope your still awake after all that . I've attached some photos I snapped on my 4 cyl Getz that might help you follow what's going on.

Cheers.

Scottie.

Added another screen shot of a scope test on a system that has a leak on the high pressure fuel system. Notice how quickly the pressure bleeds away after the engine shuts down. That's the benefit of using an oscilloscope. You can measure how quickly the pump can build pressure and spot when it the pressure is leaking away.

 

Hi Scot

I haven't even been able to read your comprehensive reply.

I am off this weekend so I'll get on with that lot then.

I took the car to work today to try and have a look at a few things and on the way home the car started throwing out loads of smoke.... It was a bit embarrassing. Stopped for a bit and it calmed down.

Thanks again for all your help.

Gavin

 

Scottie, YOU deserve a MEDAL for all the help you give, from all of us Thanks a Million

 

Thanks very much for your kind words sir. Honestly, that means a lot.

I try to offer help when I can, but I'm also here to learn as well. I think you can learn more from reading these types of forums than you can at any automotive training course. When someone posts in with a fault then shares what the fix was, I file that away so when I come across a similar problem I've got a few Ideas how to tackle it. So, I'm putting something in but I'm getting a lot in return too.

Thanks again.

Scott.

 

Hi Scot

I checked the RPS and the voltages were as you suggested at the 3 stages. The problem is voltages on the DRV. One wire is 12v or thereabouts. The other was about 11.5v. They are both Lmost the same so I wasn't confident in which was which to do the test.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Gavin

 

They are both Lmost the same so I wasn't confident in which was which to do the test.

What to do then is unplug the solenoid and recheck the voltages with the ignition on. One wire should still be 12V and the other (the control wire) will be much lower. I'm sure you'll find the wire that had 11.5V will be the control wire, but you were right to hold fire until your sure.

Scott.

 

Hi Scott

I did that check with the ignition on. Should it have been off?

 

You're not local to Cheshire by any chance. ��

 

Hi Scott

I have identified the control wire.

Just so I am 100% on what I need to do. I need to connect a wire to the control wire whilst it is plugged in to the rail. Then with the engine running and the volt meter connected to the middle wire of the RPS hold the wire I have connected to the control to the negative battery terminal or another suitable earth point whilst monitoring the volt meter?

Thanks again for your patience.

 

Yes the ignition should have been on to find the control wire on the DRV.

Before you start the engine (ignition on) confirm you have 0.5V output from the pressure sensor.

Now run the engine at around 2000RPM. Keep an eye on the voltmeter and ground the DRV control wire and hold it onto ground. The engine should shut down almost as soon as you ground the control wire. You should get about 4.3~4.5Volts on the meter when the engine shuts down. That voltage equates to max system pressure which is about 1350 Bar on your system. The voltage should start to drop steadily when the engine shuts down. If it drops very quickly back to 0.5V that would seem to indicate a leak in the fuel system.

Once your done disconnect everything and erase the trouble codes from the engine PCM.

Scottie.

 

Hi Scot

That all sounds great. The only thing is I don't have a fault code reader to erase any fault codes.

I really could do with someone who has one I could borrow.

Id like to check the trouble codes just to make sure there is nothing logged.

Thanks

 

Haven't you checked for trouble codes yet? Sorry, I thought you had done that already.

You could probably use a generic OBD code reader to erase the trouble codes. They aren't very expensive..see link below. They don't always work 100% on diesels though.

D900 Car Universal OBD2 EOBD CAN Fault Code Reader Scanner Diagnostic Scan Tool | eBay

I've no personal experience with this tool. It looks to have quite good specs for the money though.