I think it will take someone getting hurt and a safety recall is issued before Hyundai will ever do anything about this. Even if some one does get hurt an sues, it will be in litigation for years anyway. The best you're gonna get from Hyundai right now is lip service about how the car is performing within specs as designed.

 

07 azera
problem was more noticeable after 2-3 thousand miles
had front struts replaced per tsb. Paid for new 040 rear struts which turned out to be a waste of time and money.
the knocking sound is not very loud and does not bother me. What is annoying is feeling every bump in the road. What little shock absorbtion I get is from the seats.

 

I was just thinking on my way home today that it might be interesting to utilize the community here, and other enthusiast communities, to sort of craft a "class action", to gather consent and force Hyundai to acknowledge the engineering defect and issue at least a TSB, at most a recall.

Like I said, I either don't hear the noise yet or it doesn't bother me enough, but my 12-year-old Jags (40K & 62K miles respectively, with original shocks, BTW) actually make less noise over broken pavement than the Azera does. That's not comparing apples with apples, unless you consider the age and mileage of the Jags. But if I did hear all this clunking noise I sure as he11 would expect the manufacturer of any car they're willing to sell for $30k to be willing to deliver something that rides well for more than 3,000 miles...

The stereo is great, the features are great, the seats and buttons and aesthetics and steering and acceleration and braking and idling are all just great, but if you can pick up a 5-year-old, 60K mile Accord that still handles tightly and whispers over the roughest bumps, then Azera needs to deliver at 5k miles. And 20k. And if they want to be a credible nameplate selling Genesis-like cars in 10 years, the Azera needs to deliver at 50K and 70K miles.

If they breed a generation of early adopters, well-entrenched in enthusiast communities, who insist that the car is not durable, does not have a well-designed suspension, and ultimately, does not deliver quality comparable to competitors... then this is the legacy Hyundai has to live with for decades to come. They will need to "start over" in 2009, with Genesis (if it's good) and something other than Azera and Sonata - call this entire early initiative a loss, a caveat to earlier, low-price, low-quality days; they've changed in appearance, but not customer care, and not quality.

Now I wonder if a letter in language something like the above, undersigned by 500 enthusiasts and owners of Azeras, mailed to every Hyundai exec, with an offer to share the letter with Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, Automobile, Edmunds, JD Power, and a few dozen lesser magazines, blogs, and car websites, would convince Hyundai to admit that they may have skimped a bit on basic suspension components.

A la the Nikasil-lined BMW 4.0L V8 blocks of E34s ('94-'95) or the Nikasil-lined Jaguar (FORD) blocks of X308s ('98-'00)... an engine that fails after 50k miles and requires the block to be bored out, re-sleeved and rebuilt, or just replaced entirely with a new one.

This is nowhere near as bad, but FAR more likely to generate bad blood from individuals who would otherwise be Hyundai's most staunch supporters... nearly a 'make it or break it' balance of affairs, because Hyundai doesn't have Jaguar's history, and this apparently does not only just effect some of the cars. Hyundai selling Genesis-2 in 2012 depends on Hyundai taking the suspension quality on the Azera seriously in 2008. Find the clunk, get a different supplier for gas shocks, issue a TSB for two or four bushings and the shocks, install heavier front springs, and make us go away happy.

Contrast this cost with Jag's replacing a V8 block in tens of thousands of XJs to "keep it quiet"... never acknowledging a design flaw, but still covering failed Nikasil block replacements even on cars out of warranty. I just spent $60,000 on a car from you two years ago and after 30k miles it runs rough, coughs smoke out of the tailpipe, and then, boom, next morning, won't start, won't run.

I say all of this in defense of what the Azera SHOULD deliver, and given Hyundai's recent initiative, what it MUST deliver. And on account of how easy it should be for Hyundai to make it right. Training techs to say "it's supposed to be like that" no matter what kind of noise is coming out of the front corners doesn't build credibility in the near-luxury buyer's market, it just gives us multiple datapoints that indicate that this is a training issue, a company-wide canned response. If & when I take my car to my dealer in Raleigh for this issue, I now know what to expect them to say.

I still like my Azera but Hyundai can't afford to make an army of enemies this early in their upmarket shift. So here's to hoping... both for us and for Hyundai... that they do the right thing.

All agreed? :beer:

 

Couldn't have said it better. Maybe a form letter?

 

I have a 2006 Azera and I do like the car. I noticed the clunk after 2000 miles and it is getting worse. Been to the dealer twice and the service manage says it sounds fine to him. No problem. Maybe he needs a hearing aid. I hear it going 20 to 30 mph and so does my girlfriend. This problem along with the dimming of my headlights turns me off on buying another Hyundai. I want to buy a smaller car as gas is getting to be a pain but I will not buy another Hyundai as they do not stand by their automobile. Sad but true. I have written two letters to the President of Hyundai and no response.

When I had a problem with my GM car back in 1984 I wrote a letter and got a response from the CEO of the company. The problem was resolved in two weeks. If Hyundai wants to make a move on the rest of the car companies in the USA they need to take find a fix for the problems and keep the customer happy.

NOW my clunk is getting worse. Sounds like something is loose in the shocks or springs. I may keep the Azera another year and trade it in for something smaller but the only problem is I only have 12,000 miles on the car. Almost new. Not even broke in. This really sucks.

 

What year is your Azera?

 

Owen Koh, PO Box 20850, Fountain Valley, CA 92728-0850 is the CEO. Complain to dealer first. Then or at the same time, call the Customer Assistance Center and get a file number assigned. At the same time, write to the CEO above.

He will not answer the letter, but after my second one (one month after first), someone from CA did call me. She then contacted the Regional Service Manager who made an appointment to drive the car June 17th. He already drove it once, but this time will be to address the wallowing at higher speeds. First time was just the non-absorption of bumps at low speeds.

Either I don't have the noise, don't notice it or it doesn't bother me. However, the car was quieter after the struts were replaced per the TSB.

Mine is a 2007 with 10,000 miles on it. Problem began about 2-3,000 miles and returned about 2-3,000 miles after struts replaced with -040's.

DO NOT send form letters; make them personal and make sure to include VIN, purchase date, dealership, current mileage and details regarding the problem. Add your phone number(s) and you may get a call. I have written to Acura, Lexus and Toyota regarding their cars and none wrote back, but they did call me.

Follow up with Customer Assistance periodically and good luck.

 

See my other comment, but I agree that Hyundai HAS an issue here. I wrote to Consumer Reports automotive editor to ask why they did not detect this problem as they brag about the length of time they drive the cars. No response. Once they establish their opinion, they don't back off. Same with car magazines.

I was all set to pick up a Genesis when it came out until the wallowing developed in my Azera. If they blew the ride in their "luxury" car, what will they blow in the Genesis?

Car would be a 10 even it did not wallow. IMO, still better equiped than Acuras, Infinitis, Lexus' costing 10,000 more. :beer:

 

Well spoken and I agree with you but it would be like herding cats to get 500 Azera owners to sign. It might be a better Idea to go straight to Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Popular Mechanics, pasted/blogged all over the Internet, etc.

I can imagine Hyundai's argument will be something like this: * This is how the car was designed and it is performing as designed and there is no basis to take action.*

The only way they are gonna take action on this is if it is deemed unsafe by some govt. agency or something like that.

I haven't seen or heard of any reports of Azera owners getting satisfaction apart from changing the shocks as per the TSB.

The first time I complained about the suspension was before the TSB came out. I went to two different dealers and got the same s#it about being "within specs" and "no noise could be heard at this time, complaint could not be duplicated".

It was as though they had been to the same meeting where they were coached on what spiel to use when dealing with this issue. It was only after the TSB came out several weeks later and I went back and literally waved it in their faces that they decided to replace the front shocks. The service monkey didn't even know about the TSB until I walked in and held the document up to him and politely ask him to read it.

I will gleefully sign a class letter of complaint but alas, I don't think anything is gonna help until it becomes a safety issue. Making a safety issue out of it is gonna be a hard sell because it can't be proven. I just don't see them spending a lot of money for a "fix" just because a few owners are not happy. Especially since the way a car feels and handles can be so subjective. I bet they could find more Azera owners who are happy with the way their cars ride than owners that are unhappy.

 

Originally posted by Carolina Bob@Jun 12 2008, 05:54 AM
I was all set to pick up a Genesis when it came out until the wallowing developed in my Azera.  If they blew the ride in their "luxury" car, what will they blow in the Genesis?

Not to get off-topic, but I wouldn't be so concerned about the Genesis suspension, at least the version the U.S. is getting. It utilizes Amplitude Selective Dampers manufactured by ZF which supplies components to many German manufacturers.

http://www.zf-mediacenter.de/sea_view_v2.p...e&pRubB=&pos=50

Also, the transmissions have been proven reliable on other makes/models (both the Aisin-sourced unit on the V6 and the ZF-sourced unit on the V8).

If there is one big question mark regarding the Genesis it has to do with the electronics. In perticular, the i-Drive type interface. And possibly the Tau V8 engine durability/reliability.

 

I just don't have faith in Hyundai's R&D and manufacturing, particularly a car with so many new components.

 

I thought Azera was an all-new platform (maybe it was shared with the Veracruz... do I have that right?) - if they put this entire car together and the biggest failing is soft springs & clunky struts, and the motor gears on some of the automatic sunshades - that's actually pretty good engineering. Again I agree that the suspension should have no noise, and that that shouldn't be impossible to accomplish with the setup in the front, so I think they owe it to us. But it's literally just bolt-off bolt-on components. I can call to mind some SERIOUS engineering defects on respected names, to wit Mercedes, Jaguar and BMW, that were NOT just a matter of preference or imperfection. They were dangerous, or show-stopping. It wasn't a matter of, "I wish my car's suspension was quieter over rotten road." It was a matter of, "I wish my 2-year-old car would start right now."

Brazzel you talk about your truck that never has anything wrong. We've owned two Taurus wagons, and the worst they ever needed was an alignment. 3 years and 20k miles on the earlier one (a '94, we drove it from 110k to 130k miles) and 3 years / 10k miles on the later one (a '97 we drove from 45k to 53k miles). OK, the '94 did need a new master cylinder... but that COULD have been (just postulating here) because I accidentally poured PS fluid into the brake reservoir... not sure. I'm not going to peg that one on Ford.

Those are pretty humble cars, nowhere near as powerful, refined, or feature-laden as the Azera. But they also didn't try to accomplish as much. And indeed, they had been making Tauruses simple, low-performance and reliable for 8 full model years before our '94 was made, 11 before the '97.

The Azera's sunshade gear can break. The Taurses didn't have sun shades.

Oh, but our '99 528iT did have manual sunshades in both rear doors.

They both broke.

Our '98 S70 had an ABS unit fail ($500 part).

Our '94 540i had had its block replaced out of warranty because the original block's Nikasil lining had failed. Its radiator blew at 96k miles.

The cupholders on our '97 528i (and every E39) broke, flimsy, worthless things.

The '97 XJR needed new timing chain guide rails.

The '67 Newport needed rear axle bearings. (Very tongue-in-cheek; I'll be willing to pay for new bearings for the Azeras when they are 40 years old.)

The '96 XJ6 needed a new upper (secondary) timing chain tensioner. All AJ16 motors make timing chain noise around 1500RPM under light throttle. All X300s had a recall on the ECU fuel trim programming, EGR valve and throttle return spring.

Outside of direct experience, Mercedes put active shocks in the '00+ S-class, which had (have) a distressing habit of blowing out. This got attention when these were out of warranty and someone was stuck with replacing $1400 shocks on a car that still cost $50,000. Mercedes never issued a recall.

We don't have it so bad. Just keep leaning on Hyundai to come up with a better shock absorber. If they make mine right, I'll buy a Genesis from them

:beer: to all!

 

Originally posted by andyman32@Jun 13 2008, 05:12 PM
I thought Azera was an all-new platform (maybe it was shared with the Veracruz... do I have that right?) - if they put this entire car together and the biggest failing is soft springs & clunky struts, and the motor gears on some of the automatic sunshades - that's actually pretty good engineering. Again I agree that the suspension should have no noise, and that that shouldn't be impossible to accomplish with the setup in the front, so I think they owe it to us. But it's literally just bolt-off bolt-on components. I can call to mind some SERIOUS engineering defects on respected names, to wit Mercedes, Jaguar and BMW, that were NOT just a matter of preference or imperfection. They were dangerous, or show-stopping. It wasn't a matter of, "I wish my car's suspension was quieter over rotten road." It was a matter of, "I wish my 2-year-old car would start right now."

Brazzel you talk about your truck that never has anything wrong. We've owned two Taurus wagons, and the worst they ever needed was an alignment. 3 years and 20k miles on the earlier one (a '94, we drove it from 110k to 130k miles) and 3 years / 10k miles on the later one (a '97 we drove from 45k to 53k miles). OK, the '94 did need a new master cylinder... but that COULD have been (just postulating here) because I accidentally poured PS fluid into the brake reservoir... not sure. I'm not going to peg that one on Ford.

Those are pretty humble cars, nowhere near as powerful, refined, or feature-laden as the Azera. But they also didn't try to accomplish as much. And indeed, they had been making Tauruses simple, low-performance and reliable for 8 full model years before our '94 was made, 11 before the '97.

The Azera's sunshade gear can break. The Taurses didn't have sun shades.

OH, our '99 528iT did have manual sunshades in both rear doors.

They both broke.

Our '98 S70 had an ABS unit fail ($500 part).

Our '94 540i had had its block replaced out of warranty because the original block's Nikasil lining had failed. Its radiator blew at 96k miles.

The cupholders on our '97 528i (and every E39) broke, flimsy, worthless things.

The '97 XJR needed new timing chain guide rails.

The '67 Newport needed rear axle bearings. (Very tongue-in-cheek; I'll be willing to pay for new bearings for the Azeras when they are 40 years old.)

The '96 XJ6 needed a new upper (secondary) timing chain tensioner. All AJ16 motors make timing chain noise around 1500RPM under light throttle. All X300s had a recall on the ECU fuel trim programming, EGR valve and throttle return spring.

Outside of direct experience, Mercedes put active shocks in the '00+ S-class, which had (have) a distressing habit of blowing out. This got attention when these were out of warranty and someone was stuck with replacing $1400 shocks on a car that still cost $50,000. Mercedes never issued a recall.

We don't have it so bad. Just keep leaning on Hyundai to come up with a better shock absorber. If they make mine right, I'll buy a Genesis from them

:beer: to all!

[snapback]169241[/snapback]​

I agree with you 100%.

I love everything about my Azera except the shocks. I really don't mind the clunking over rough roads.

All I want is for the front end of my Azera to quit bouncing after going over high speed dips, etc..

I want the front end to recover quicker, like it did when the new shocks were first installed.

My dealer refuses to install anymore new ones since I have already had the TSB done once already.

If I could have the TSB done every two or 3 months, I would be a totally happy camper. Unfortunately the overly soft springs wear out these shocks in a hurry.

I baby my Azera by not going over rough roads very fast. As a matter of fact, most people get impatient with me if they are behind.

The Azera only has 16,000 miles on it and already I need a wheel alignment. Of course, the dealer informed me it is not covered under warranty because I have more than 12,000 miles. What a crock.

I believe the alignment problem is due to the poor front suspension. My car pulls slightly to the right all the time.

I definitely miss some of my previous cars that were "built like a tank". My 1976 Pontiac Trans Am comes to mind.

David <><

 

Azera is a "stretched" Sonata, so most components are the same. I think the suspension is different though.

 

2007 Azera with clunk on right front from day one.
Recall for new shocks NG.
Change tiiming belt tensioner NG.
Clunk has changed to a bang and in cold weather the car squeeks like a rusty gate.
Now that the warm weather is here I don't think I can make a case but next winter I intend to go for the lemon law if I still can. I'll have the car one and a half years at that time.
Jim

 

My 2006 Azera (22,000 miles) has been in three times for suspension noise. Struts replaced, same noises, and car now wallows side to side. Dealer advises this (and other) issues are "normal and functioning as designed".

Has anyone had 17" Michelin S8 tires as contributor to noise and handling issues? No illusions that it could be a "fix" but mine continue to cup on inside tread and they have been rotated front-to-back, x-pattern and side-to-side with a four wheel alignment each time.

 

Kind of feels like driving a shopping cart with a 3.8

It is a nice shopping cart though.

 

My 2006 Azera (22,000 miles) has been in three times for suspension noise.  Struts replaced, same noises, and car now wallows side to side.  Dealer advises this (and other) issues are "normal and functioning as designed".

I've heard that from 3 different dealers. They say that every time unless something is so obviously broken that it can't be denied. It is as though they all got the same memo about how to handle customer complaints about the suspension and in my case, a few other issues pertaining to squeaks inside the car.

Has anyone had 17" Michelin S8 tires as contributor to noise and handling issues? No illusions that it could be a "fix" but mine continue to cup on inside tread and they have been rotated front-to-back, x-pattern and side-to-side with a four wheel alignment each time.

This weekend, I did something that I never do. I pumped my tires up from 32psi to 37psi just as an experiment. There was significantly less wallow and, oddly enough, less bounce but the noise was intensified. The car seemed to perform better in tight curves...not as scary as before. The ride went from floaty to firmer and harsh but at least it felt a little more connected to the road surface than before. But the harshness is a he// of a price to pay to stop some of the wallowing and bouncing.

 

I don't understand how higher tire pressure would affect bouncing.
My thought is that I will take it in every 5,000 miles for an oil, filter and strut change if Hyundai agrees to pay for the strut change.

 

Higher tire pressure is an interesting possibility; I wonder if you replace the tires with some known positive like Michelin HydroEdge or Falken Ziex or Pirelli P-Zero, would it improve the overall car's ride? Based on the noise & driving characteristics, I actually can take relatively quick corners (quicker than my Vanden Plas but maybe not as quick as my XJR... well... you know). It seems pretty straight, pretty accurate steering.

Something isn't matched up right in the suspension and I can't "intuit" whether it's stiff springs & weak shocks, or the other way 'round. In corners, the tires do actually "lean" themselves - so lower-profile tires with thicker sidewalls actually does make a car feel more solid in corners. The tire pressure's effect on the lateral distortion of the tire would probably be negligible, since it's distorting along the sidewall material, not the air mass inside... ride characteristics are obviously effected significantly by pressure but maybe not handling? I don't know.

 

Aside from a harsher ride, what are the consequences of keeping the tires at 5psi over recommended?

 

Originally posted by campoly@Jun 16 2008, 04:06 PM
Aside from a harsher ride, what are the consequences of keeping the tires at 5psi over recommended?

[snapback]169806[/snapback]​

Strong possibility of excessive wear to the middle of the tires.

David <><

 

Originally posted by Carolina Bob@Jun 16 2008, 02:08 PM
I don't understand how higher tire pressure would affect bouncing.
    My thought is that I will take it in every 5,000 miles for an oil, filter and strut change if Hyundai agrees to pay for the strut change.

[snapback]169781[/snapback]​

I suggested that very same thing to my Service Manger last week. The answer was, "Hyundai will only do the TSB one time on the Azera. Any additional shock replacements will be at the expense of either the dealer or consumer".

David <><

 

Originally posted by Carolina Bob@Jun 16 2008, 02:08 PM
I don't understand how higher tire pressure would affect bouncing.
    My thought is that I will take it in every 5,000 miles for an oil, filter and strut change if Hyundai agrees to pay for the strut change.

[snapback]169781[/snapback]​

Bob,

I also did the same experiment last week.

After changing the oil and rotating tires, I pumped them up to 35 psi. I usually carry 32 psi. My Azera calls for 30 psi.

I made two round trips to Tucson which was a total of 160 miles of interstate driving.

I found the ride to be much harsher and noisier. I also found the bouncing front end to be the same. My shocks are still worn out and will stay that way, according to Hyundai and no amount of air pressure is going to change that

When I finished these two trips, I promptly lowered the air pressure to the recommended amount, 30 psi.

The ride is now smoother and the bouncing is the same.

I give up experimenting. It is too frustrating. The car needs a few design changes such as HD shocks that will not wear out so soon. Of course, better springs would be great but that will never happen. The shocks are a possibility someday.

If I could find a set of shocks for the front end that would last 12 months, I would buy them in a heart beat.

I had originally thought I'd keep my Azera for 5 years but now, I don't think so. Unless something becomes available to fix the front end, I plan on getting rid of this car when it is 3 years old.

It is a real shame to, because I love everything about the Azera except front end bounce.

David <><

 

Strong possibility of excessive wear to the middle of the tires.

I remember sometime back on the Edmunds-Azera forum there was a huge debate about tire pressure. Many of those guys were advocating 5-10psi over the recommended psi for any and all cars.