My guess is what you stated, the 17 and 18’s haven’t racked up enough miles yet. No biggie really as long as the engine failure happens during the warranty timeframe imo


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there's no official data that it was fixed for 2018 models..

hyundai did make some changes from 2011-2013, so they're saying that engines produced after September 2013 are not affected by the same problem.

however, as you mentioned, some 2015/16 sonatas, sorentos, sportage's, and santa fe's are also failing..

whether these failures are due to not following the severe condition maintenance schedule, or using poor quality oil/filter, or whether it is due to weak bearings, no one knows for sure..

whether to purchase a hyundai/kia vehicle depends on your risk tolerance, how much you value your life and time, and your family's safety

 

Toyota is not without their issues and class action lawsuits.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/toyota-soy-wiring-class-action-lawsuit.shtml

 

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/hyundai-soy-based-wiring-lawsuit-rodents.shtml

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/kia-soy-based-wiring-chewed-rodents-lawsuit.shtml

 

In my humble opinion, all these problems exist just because some owners like to play catch-cans and similar "inventions" that promise to improve engine performance. When it results in dead engine, smarties do not want to pay the price for their curiosity - they initiate plaintiff. Lawyers smell money of course.
Personally, I have not experienced any problems with Sonata's engines for last 10 years, as well as with any other engines if they younger than 15 years (150 000 miles).

Again, this is my personal opinion that reflects my personal experience. If you do not like it - discard it as stupid.

 

Hyundai tried to cut costs and we're having to pay the price.

In 2016, South Korean media outlet tested the strength of the rod bearings used in NF sonatas vs YF sonatas. The bearing in YF sonatas were much weaker and prone to breakage.

Also, they released GDI engines in 2011 without addressing potential problems, such as excess heat and carbon deposits on intake valves.

 

The 2015+ have all the known updates and haven't been dropping like flies. There have been non-stop updates from 2011+ and I am pretty sure that the 2015+ owners have nothing to worry about.

Regardless, I wouldn't be negligent with any new Hyundai. You'll still have to check the oil often and top it off as needed. It would be smart to follow the severe service intervals, use a full synthetic oil, and step up an oil grade or two.

None of these issues have been caused by catch-cans and 'inventions'. Only a non-smartie would think that. Hyundai has a history of engineering snafus. And, the typical US consumer is an id1ot when it comes to vehicle ownership and preventive maintenance. Most owners are illiterate and have never even read their owners manual.

 

There have been non-stop updates from 2011+ and I am pretty sure that the 2015+ owners have nothing to worry about.

The only confirmed updates, (as per leaked internal documents) are as follows:

May 2011 Change of connecting rod fastening method,
August 2011 Applying of connecting rod plating specification,
June 2012 Increase of bearing oil gap,
August 2012 Connecting rod material change,
Jan 2013 Crankshaft blast application,
September 2013 Crankshaft material change

If Hyundai engineers correctly identified and rectified the root cause of the engine failures, we shouldn't be seeing similar failures in 2015+ models.

I went back to carcomplaints.com, checked Korean forums and read carefully about the engine failure reports that occurred in 2015+ Hyundai/Kia vehicles equipped with 2.4L/2.0T engines.

In some cases, the failures happened within 500 miles after an oil change, or within 1 month after dealership oil change, etc. There was one case where the person said he checked the oil level right before driving, but it still failed. One person in Korea said the oil was changed every 3000km with synthetic oil, but still ended up with a loud engine knock.

You keep mentioning that the synthetic oil, short OCI, higher grade oil, better filter, frequent dipstick checks, and intake valve cleaning will be the cure of this problem, but I can't be as certain.

I don't think anyone, not even Hyundai's engineers, has been able to pinpoint the exact cause/causes of the problem. It is most likely due to multiple factors, and fixing one part of the equation (maintenance), may not be the solution.

At this point, whether the engine fails or not is more of a luck of the draw. The chance will increase with higher mileage.

I, too, would like to be able to say that "the 2015+ owners have nothing to worry about" for the sake of all the Hyundai/Kia owners. I would like to be able to say that Hyundai/Kia is a reliable brand and recommend their products to friends and family. Sadly, we know that is not the case after 2011.

This incident was reported on carcomplaints,

" I was in a 2015 Kia Sorento LX (enterprise insurance rental) traveling on crabb river road, (a city street) sugarland, Texas. I fully stopped at the traffic lights because it was red. Once lights turned green, I put the vehicle in motion by stepping on the gas pedal to accelerate but the car felt really sluggish so I gave it more gas in order to gain enough speed as I was about to go over some railroad tracks (approx. 55+ mph) which were on a road that was on an incline. Right as the car reached the tracks, the engine stalled, the steering wheel locked and I lost all control of the vehicle and it dove into a ditch; plowed directly into a steel billboard pole which was cemented into the ground because the brakes became unresponsive. There were no warning lights on the dash prior to the crash. Even though I was fully buckled, the seatbelt did not prevent my head from violently hitting the windshield and bouncing off the steering wheel since none of the 8 airbags deployed. I suffered near fatal injuries including a broken back (L2 fracture), spinal cord, head, eye, chin, jaws, neck and hip; broken teeth, permanent disfiguration (18 stitches), some vision & hearing loss from nerve damage and ptsd, mental anguish, chronic migraines, extreme stress, terrible recurring nightmares, etc. I'm a 5'2" woman and my chest was pinned to the steering wheel upon the impact with the pole and the fire dept. Had to free me and lift me up to the emts. I was transported to the er of a hospital by ambulance and later transferred to the trauma unit of memorial hermann hospital due to the severity of my injuries."


This forum will have inherent bias as most of the posters are owners of Hyundai vehicles. It would be beneficial to try to keep that bias in check and try to get the pertinent facts.

 

@OP, I'd look at a fully loaded CPO 2017. If I were looking to buy today. I wouldn't buy a new hyundai. Only Hyundai/kia I would buy new is the stinger gt.

 

OR. . . take a couple-3 months to research/line up a good interest rate (if needed) and then jump on that desired "James Bond"-ish looking 2018 CPO.

 

When complaining about a failure, EVERYONE will state how great their oil is, how perfect their maintenance interval is, and how full their oil level is. You can believe that bs all you want on how great we all take care of our vehicles. I bet a certain Kia Sorento driver was text driving.

And, I will keep saying.. run synthetic oil, practice severe service intervals, keep the oil levels full, run a thicker grade, and keep the fuel system clean with quality fuel and additives as needed.

 

When complaining about a failure, EVERYONE will state how great their oil is, how perfect their maintenance interval is, and how full their oil level is. You can believe that bs all you want on how great we all take care of our vehicles. I bet a certain Kia Sorento driver was text driving.

And, I will keep saying.. run synthetic oil, practice severe service intervals, keep the oil levels full, run a thicker grade, and keep the fuel system clean with quality fuel and additives as needed.

+1 to what deadRX7conv suggests ... I own a 2017 Sontata LTD 2.4L GDI that follows severe schedule oil change interval with a synthetic D1 / Gen 2 approved 5W30 (up a viscosity grade) and a Fram Ultra #9688 synthetic oil filter (good for 20K miles) which I change with every oil change . I keep the oil level full and check it often. I use top tier rated unleaded gasoline and the tank of gas prior to an oil change I run a bottle of Techron or Gumout Regane (both high in PEA) to clean out the fuel system (it's not required if using top tier gas but I do it any way) ... Sadly, in mixed driving my 2.4L GDI engine will burn roughly 0.75 qrt to 1.0 qrt of oil over the course of 3,750 miles severe schedule . My 2010 Elantra PFI 2.0L PFI engine and my 2007 Sedona with 3.8L PFI engine do not burn a drop of oil over an OCI (same break in procedure) . *I have done everything I can right and still I get a oil burn with the 2.4L GDI engine I never experienced with Hyundai / Kia PFI engines before ... Hyundai is quick to respond that a qrt. of oil burned over 3,750 miles is normal and nothing to be concerned with (oh really ?)

 

"I was in a 2015 Kia Sorento LX (enterprise insurance rental) traveling on crabb river road, (a city street) sugarland, Texas. I fully stopped at the traffic lights because it was red. Once lights turned green, I put the vehicle in motion by stepping on the gas pedal to accelerate but the car felt really sluggish so I gave it more gas in order to gain enough speed as I was about to go over some railroad tracks (approx. 55+ mph) which were on a road that was on an incline. Right as the car reached the tracks, the engine stalled, the steering wheel locked and I lost all control of the vehicle and it dove into a ditch; plowed directly into a steel billboard pole which was cemented into the ground because the brakes became unresponsive. There were no warning lights on the dash prior to the crash. Even though I was fully buckled, the seatbelt did not prevent my head from violently hitting the windshield and bouncing off the steering wheel since none of the 8 airbags deployed. I suffered near fatal injuries including a broken back (L2 fracture), spinal cord, head, eye, chin, jaws, neck and hip; broken teeth, permanent disfiguration (18 stitches), some vision & hearing loss from nerve damage and ptsd, mental anguish, chronic migraines, extreme stress, terrible recurring nightmares, etc. I'm a 5'2" woman and my chest was pinned to the steering wheel upon the impact with the pole and the fire dept. Had to free me and lift me up to the emts. I was transported to the er of a hospital by ambulance and later transferred to the trauma unit of memorial hermann hospital due to the severity of my injuries."

Normally I don't believe or even read these type of stories. But considering I know EXACTLY this location, and in fact used to live about a mile from the described location, I have to speak up. I know the railroad track crossing mentioned, and at the stated 55MPH you will get airborne. Big time. And the description of failures is impressive. Loss of steering control, brakes, engine, airbags, seatbelts ... So all electrics and hydraulics failed at the exact same moment ...

Makes a point to identify that the vehicle was an insurance rental from Enterprise (SOP here for vehicles in for body work. Prior wreck? Or going for deep pockets? Regardless, would be interesting to see what the black box says happened. And, as mentioned above, cell phone data matching the time stamp of impact?

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.537...5y,203.17h,91.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4nqE8y2IL878rOUveI-aFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Normally I don't believe or even read these type of stories. But considering I know EXACTLY this location, and in fact used to live about a mile from the described location, I have to speak up. I know the railroad track crossing mentioned, and at the stated 55MPH you will get airborne. Big time. And the description of failures is impressive. Loss of steering control, brakes, engine, airbags, seatbelts ... So all electrics and hydraulics failed at the exact same moment ...

Makes a point to identify that the vehicle was an insurance rental from Enterprise (SOP here for vehicles in for body work. Prior wreck? Or going for deep pockets? Regardless, would be interesting to see what the black box says happened. And, as mentioned above, cell phone data matching the time stamp of impact?

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.537...5y,203.17h,91.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4nqE8y2IL878rOUveI-aFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Some people are just more sensitive to engine failures and crash landings than others and it's clear to me that the KIA Sorrento would perform poorly in airborne crash landing tests.

 

Back to the original question, I, too, can only express my experience with our 2015 Sonata Sport 2.4L GDI. Have about 25K on it. Runs great, idles smooth, great gas mileage, no noises from engine beyond the normal tick of the GDI fuel pump. Does not use any oil and as of last change using Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic and OEM filter. Very pleased with the car, excellent for long road trips.

 

Here is the latest reliability information from the Consumer Reports 2018 Auto Issue. To provide some context Customer survey responses were taken on over 640,000 vehicles and this information is supposedly updated annually.

Consumer Reports Definitions of Problem Spots-

ENGINE MAJOR: Engine rebuild or replacement, cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt.
ENGINE MINOR: Accessory belts and pulleys, engine computer, engine mounts, engine knock or ping, oil leaks


2010 Sonata
========
Engine major (better than average)
Engine minor (much better than average)

2011 Sonata - *YEAR OF REDESIGN
========
Engine major (worse than average)
Engine minor (average)

2012 Sonata
========
Engine major (average)
Engine minor (better than average)

2013 Sonata
========
Engine major (much better than average)
Engine minor (better than average)

2014 Sonata
========
Engine major (much better than average)
Engine minor (better than average)

2015 Sonata
========
Engine major (much better than average)
Engine minor (much better than average)

2016 Sonata
========
Engine major (much better than average)
Engine minor (much better than average)

2017 Sonata
========
Engine major (much better than average)
Engine minor (much better than average)


The general trending of the Consumer Reports data seems to support many of the posts on this forum (and other forums): 2011 was the worst year, then things improved every year thereafter up until 2015-2017 where the issues appear to be mostly resolved (with perhaps the exception of some statistical outlier cases).

 

Four Years Later : According to the the 2022 Auto Issue, the 2014, 2015 and 2016 Sonatas are now much worse than average on the Engine Major and Engine Minor criteria. The 2017 Sonatas are now average on Engine Major and much worse than average on Engine Minor. Sadly, as far as the Theta II is concerned, it looks like there is a steady trend of deterioration over time. Consumer Reports Online tracks reliability starting at model year 2006 so the degradation is much more evident.

 

There are quite a few Hyundai/Kia vehicles in my family.
Immediate family members, and myself, have 2017 Sonata Sport 2.4, 2015 Sonata Sport 2.4, 2018 Santa Fe Sport 2.4, 2014 Sonata GLS 2.4, 2008 Sonata 2.7, 2005 Optima 2.4.
So far, all have proven to be very reliable.

 

Sounds like you've had good luck with the 2.4 Engine as far as reliability. I test drove a 2018 SEL with the 2.4 and the power seemed adequate but not great. Having lived with this engine on a daily basis over many years, what is your impression on the power? Does it ever leave you wanting more?

 

When we first got our 2015 Sonata Sport 2.4L I thought the power adequate, but the throttle response was very linear. It almost seemed like with deeper throttle the acceleration wasn't really faster, but more like it lasted longer???

Within the first year we received notice of a "re-flash" or update to the ECM. Afterwards the throttle response was MUCH improved and felt more like a direct connected throttle as apposed to drive-by-wire.

 

I absolutely hate drive-by-wire, but unfortunately there is no way to avoid it. All the automakers have adopted this technology over the past 10-15 years. I test drove a 2016 Sonata a couple years ago and noticed a delay in response. When punching the accelerator from a stop there was good half second delay before the engine even responded. There was also a noticeable delay when hitting the gas at cruising speed. Maybe it was just that particular car I drove. On the other hand I recently drove a 2017 Lexus RX that had a very responsive throttle, almost too touchy! My guess is that Hyundai engineers calibrated the Sonata to favor economy over performance. It would be nice if they saved the dull response for Eco mode only and actually programmed Sport mode to feel like a real throttle cable. The Hyundai's I have driven don't seem to provide much of a noticeable difference between Sport and the other modes.

 

My 2015 Sonata Sport with 36,700 miles was brought in to the dealership for its regular oil change today. On the way home, the check engine light began flashing and chiming and the car went into limp mode. Along with the oil change, there was an ecm and instrument cluster update performed. I now have a rental car, as the dealership will be checking with Hyundai to see if they are allowed to perform the harness check that the codes said to perform since my year vehicle is not on the campaign list. The code said to perform the harness check, and if that doesn't work replace the engine. The techs were shocked, as I was.

A little googling and I'm learning more about these theta engines and perhaps design flaws. Regardless, my concern is growing that even with an engine replacement, there is a possibility of a design flaw causing these issues, even into the 2015 model year. There was a whistleblower in Korea that said Hyundai knew of this issue. I can understand the reluctance to replace every theta engine ever produced, so I expect a fight dealing with this issue.

 

You are about the 3rd person that has needed an engine replacement after the cluster and ECM reflash.
It baffles me why Hyundai would automatically replace the engine when the problem is obviously in the electronics since that is the only thing that was changed to make it run bad.
Unless, of course, just driving the car with the bad ECU update trashes the motor because the valve timing and everything else is so out of whack.


It will be interesting to see what SBR has to say about this faulty condition after the reflash.
And did the tech not bother to test drive the car after the work was done?

 

I don’t think they have ever test driven my car after any of these software updates, other than to pull it into a parking space from the maintenance bay. The interesting thing is I asked what the update was addressing and the service tech didn’t know and said that I probably wouldn’t notice any difference. He mentioned that again when I came limping back into the dealership.

One tech who pulled codes said the update was addding a bunch of monitoring codes for lifter rattle or something. So I take it that Hyundai was aware of some issues with these engines in this model year and was adding software to detect a known rattle that leads to engine failure. I’m still learning more about this issue and waiting to hear back today from the dealership about what they learn after calling Hyundai. I actually expect it won’t be too informative, but am hoping to be pleasantly surprised. They said this was the first one they had come back with codes after the update. Yay me!

 

I know I will get flamed however all and all it is not a good motor for many reasons....that being said yes other manufacturers have had issues with some of their designs also. Is it the worst - probably not, the best - far from it.

You certainly shouldn't have to add after market products ie catch-cans, sea foam, hot oil treatments or even synthetic oils........to insure your "modern" engine is going to last into the 100,000 +++ miles.

That being said, to be fair I have had no issues as yet with 2015 although I only have 22,000 km on it.......................

Cheers p

 

You sound like you have my kind of luck.
Good luck with the repairs and please keep us updated.

 

I went to this site and entered my VIN and it brought up the campaign they just did on my vehicle. Try it.

https://autoservice.hyundaiusa.com/campaignhome

 

Looks like the ecm update is really screwing cars up, or quickly identifying a problem, or who knows. I know this, I have two 2015's that is driven by my wife and son. I don't go to the dealer cause I do most of my own mx work. I hope that if I do have to take either one of them to the stealership that I can request they do not do the upgrade. I'm guessing that probably will not work since they list it as a safety recall.



What I don't understand is why they are still doing it when it is clear it is causing problems.

 

So, this week, I was informed that Hyundai told the dealership to replace a harness and the knock sensor. They mentioned Hyundai wanted them to test the fuel system to check things and possibly replace the oxygen sensor based upon the results of the test, just in case. Yesterday I got the call that the patch harness and knock sensor were replaced, and no other replacements were required. I need to go pick up my car.

I also called the Hyundai Safety Recalls and Service Campaigns line (https://autoservice.hyundaiusa.com/Campaignhome/Campaign/Index, (855) 671-3059) and spoke to an agent who explained the details he had for the service campaign 953. The campaign is to install software to use the knock sensor to detect premature rod bearing wear. I had read that online at the service campaign website, but now that my vehicle has completed the campaign, that detailed information is no longer available. There was a pretty good FAQ attached to the campaign that I wish I had saved.

So, it seems Hyundai is looking for 2015 Sonata engine failures with this campaign, and that the failure is the same issue that they had on the 1.2 million recalled 2011-2014 models. My dealership said there is no end in sight for the replacements they have been doing on those model years.

The dealership doesn't seem to know exactly what the campaign is for, as I've never had them provide me any details about rod bearing wear when I asked about the need for the update. And, they have no explanation when I talked to them on the phone about how this patch harness and oxygen sensor replacement solves some unknown issue after installing the software update. I can speculate, but I don't have enough information to back my speculation. I hope to be able to talk to someone more informed than the service agent at the dealership when I go to pick up my vehicle.

But, thanks to this forum and the internet, I am more aware of this issue and will certainly be more closely watching my oil level and color than I have been if I decide not keep the vehicle long term.

 

Is ECM update causing the engine failures?
Had oil changed in our 2015 Sonata and was told there was an update that had to be done to ecm. Almost immediately after when driving you could hear a very faint knocking from the engine, this knocking wasn't continuous but only at certain speeds and rpms. Less than a month after the update the Check engine light came on so I took it to the dealer, while driving to the dealer engine had reduced power but was still able to run highway speed. The technician pulled the code and they said they had never seen that code after an update. They contacted the manufacturer and said they were going to put me in a rental car until they could figure out what was wrong. I called back the next day to check on our car and they said they were going to replace the engine.
So they replaced the long block with a new one. We picked the car up and my wife drove it home. Later that evening she told that the new engine was making the same noise (knocking). I didn't want to believe it but after driving it I heard it myself. Contacted dealer and they said to drive it a little bit more to make sure. We drove it probably 600 miles or so and I took it back to the dealer. The technician rode with me so he could hear the noise, which kinda tricky because it doesn't do it continuously. He heard it and talked to the manufacturer and they ended up replacing the engine after making several checks. This all started when the vehicle had about 98000 miles and now it has about 101000 miles.
When we picked up the car they said the technician and the manager had both test drove the car and it was good to go. Before we had drove the 15 miles home we heard the same knocking noise from this engine also. I called the dealer but got an answering machine and left the message that this engine was knocking also but was going to drive it a few days before I brought it back to make sure. So back to the dealer today to see what now. My wife said from the beginning that the update caused the problem and I'm beginning to think she's right!

 

Is ECM update causing the engine failures?
Had oil changed in our 2015 Sonata and was told there was an update that had to be done to ecm. Almost immediately after when driving you could hear a very faint knocking from the engine, this knocking wasn't continuous but only at certain speeds and rpms. Less than a month after the update the Check engine light came on so I took it to the dealer, while driving to the dealer engine had reduced power but was still able to run highway speed. The technician pulled the code and they said they had never seen that code after an update. They contacted the manufacturer and said they were going to put me in a rental car until they could figure out what was wrong. I called back the next day to check on our car and they said they were going to replace the engine.
So they replaced the long block with a new one. We picked the car up and my wife drove it home. Later that evening she told that the new engine was making the same noise (knocking). I didn't want to believe it but after driving it I heard it myself. Contacted dealer and they said to drive it a little bit more to make sure. We drove it probably 600 miles or so and I took it back to the dealer. The technician rode with me so he could hear the noise, which kinda tricky because it doesn't do it continuously. He heard it and talked to the manufacturer and they ended up replacing the engine after making several checks. This all started when the vehicle had about 98000 miles and now it has about 101000 miles.
When we picked up the car they said the technician and the manager had both test drove the car and it was good to go. Before we had drove the 15 miles home we heard the same knocking noise from this engine also. I called the dealer but got an answering machine and left the message that this engine was knocking also but was going to drive it a few days before I brought it back to make sure. So back to the dealer today to see what now. My wife said from the beginning that the update caused the problem and I'm beginning to think she's right!

Wives are always right...😁

 

Update
Knocking issue fixed, left axle replaced. 1 possibly 2 engines replaced due to a bad axle.

 

Wow! Where are you located and who is the dealer? In the future if we get a bad axle with about 90k miles,I will go to your dealer....:grin2:

 

Off the top of my head another way to tell a knocking engine from a knocking axle:
Downshift one gear, hold a steady speed, and see if the knock rate changes.

 

Axle knock only when moving. Rod knock anytime engine running. Put in drive, foot on the brake, speed the engine up. No knock, not the engine. When driving and hearing the knock, see if it follows vehicle speed or engine speed. Knocking frequency follows vehicle speed, drive train, not engine. Knocking follows engine speed, engine related.

If the dealer swapped an engine for a CV knock, find another dealer.

 

Exactly. Once you have experience you can tell the sound of rod knock, from main bearing knock, piston slap. They are all different. If you don't know the difference, your explanation is perfect to at least narrow it down to being the engine or not.

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dougary, we have another troll here!!
i called him out like you said we should!!

 

Lots of Honda accords needed transmission replacements to go 200k also. I honestly don't think these theta engines are good, but Honda's have their problem vehicles also just like any brand.

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that's right.. no one can make reliable cars these days,, so we should keep buying hyundai/kia vehicles with their unlimited warranties!!!!
problem solved!!!