I am not sure Hyundai was "thinking outside the box".
Typically, higher performance drivers prefer rear wheel drive. Thats not to say that the Genesis is a HiPo car, as its suspension is set much more to the soft/ smooth ride side of the compromise.
But high end cars are often RWD. RWD, splits the work between driving and steering wheels so tires last longer, and cornering CAN be better. FWD does have the advantage in snow, as you noted.

 

QUOTE (MS Fowler @ Jan 14 2009, 06:57 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=209204

I am not sure Hyundai was "thinking outside the box".
Typically, higher performance drivers prefer rear wheel drive. Thats not to say that the Genesis is a HiPo car, as its suspension is set much more to the soft/ smooth ride side of the compromise.
But high end cars are often RWD. RWD, splits the work between driving and steering wheels so tires last longer, and cornering CAN be better. FWD does have the advantage in snow, as you noted.

Front wheel drive does have an advantage, but not with the wide tires that the Genesis uses, unless you have chains, studs or snow tires. A narrow tire is much better in snow.

Rear wheel drive is far more dependable. There is less maintenance to keep this drive train in top running condition.

With front wheel drive you always have to be concerned with cracked boots and other anomalies of this system.

Both of my current vehicles are front wheel drive. If I had a rear wheel option with either these vehicles, I would jump at the opportunity.

I am speaking from 51 years of driving experience with some of the fastest vehicles in history to some of the slowest.

My current vehicles are an 08 Chryser Convertible and an 07 Santa Fe. I recently traded in my 07 Azera. I would love to have a Genesis but will wait for Hyundai to come out with a nice convertible.

David <><

 

I would consider a trade down the road, but right now with the 3.8 price tag between $31,500.00 and $34,000.00 I may wait for a demo or a Genesis coming back off a lease.

To me the Genesis is a good looking car that would catch the eye of a buyer but will they purchase a Genesis with unknowns or stick for the premium car Lexius, BMW and Acura. This reamains to be seen. Just like the Azera a autombile with plenty of options included in the price the car really never got off the ground as far a units sold. Don't get me wrong I have read the reviews and they are all giving the Genesis grand marks but when one spends over 30,000 bucks for a car it better have quality, and resale value down the road.

 

I would consider a trade down the road, but right now with the 3.8 price tag between $31,500.00 and $34,000.00 I may wait for a demo or a Genesis coming back off a lease.

To me the Genesis is a good looking car that would catch the eye of a buyer but will they purchase a Genesis with unknowns or stick for the premium car Lexius, BMW and Acura. This reamains to be seen. Just like the Azera a autombile with plenty of options included in the price the car really never got off the ground as far a units sold. Don't get me wrong I have read the reviews and they are all giving the Genesis grand marks but when one spends over 30,000 bucks for a car it better have quality, and resale value down the road.

 

The trunk is larger on the Azera, most likely due to the rear wheel drive.
I don't know about the six cylinder but the battery on the eight cylinder Genesis is located in the trunk.

 

RWD has much better handling and also is easier to launch then a FWD car. Also the Genesis and Azera are competing in way different areas.
I personally really love the Azera, its one of those types of cars thats a nice smooth luxurious cruiser, with a bit of power when needed.
The Genesis on the other hand is a sports sedan with really high horsepower, its smooth and quiet but its more performance oriented then the Azera

 

Yeah I don't know, Lexus offers the ES and Acura, the TL in FWD, but everything else in the luxury arena, across the board, is AWD or RWD. Lexus IS, GS and LS - RWD. Acura RL, AWD. Infiniti G and M, RWD or AWD. Mercedes line, 100% RWD (AFAIK). BMW, 100% RWD or AWD. Audi, 100% RWD or AWD.

The only place you find FWD cars aplenty is economy and near-luxury marques; Buick and Mercury are FWD, Volvo and Saab are both FWD/AWD lineups. Anyhow, after all that, Genesis is in good company in the RWD market.

Regarding the reason for it, 1) straight-line acceleration performance; 2) handling (better balance and more robust suspension & steering components up front w/o the complexity of CV joints to bother with); 3) tracking in any condition, but most particularly, the lack of torque oversteer on acceleration; 4) robustness and durability of drivetrain (look at the transaxle and prop shafts on any RWD car and compare to the prop shafts & CV joint on FWD cars); 5) smoothness of longitudinally-mounted motor vs. transverse (cylinder momentum causes engine to vibrate perpendicular to the axis, so, vibrations are communicated through the frame almost directly into the front suspension components, rather than into the cabin).

FWD is only supposed to be better in the snow because the car's F/R weight ratio is usually tipped more towards the front, where the engine is, which means, more of the car's weight is hung over the drive wheels. However, more and more engines are made of lighter alloys now, and differential is much heavier on a RWD car, so that isn't nearly as relevant as 30 years ago, when 600-pound steel V8 shortblocks were all the rage. Additionally, the type of differential that caused that popular conception that FWD is better for snow - the open differential - is not used in any production car today, that I'm aware of. An open differential has the peculiar effect of putting all of the engine's torque into whichever wheel is spinning, which means, if one wheel slips, the engine is going to make the slipping wheel spin faster and faster, while the wheel with grip just sits there. It's a harrowing experience, how easy it is for the wheels to slip on a car w/ an open diff. With a limited-slip differential, and maybe 2 or 4 50-pound sandbags in the trunk (if you REALLY want to go all the way), a modern RWD car won't really end up being any better or worse in snow than FWD.

So there are some pretty solid reasons for having spent so much money and energy on creating a RWD platform. The one that the salesman gave to you didn't explain much, and I'm not sure what "think outside the box means" in reference to a car that very specifically puts a Hyundai entry into another very well-represented, well-defined box.

The only thing about the Genesis that's "outside the box" might be having created the V8 with the highest volumetric efficiency of any naturally-aspirated, mass-manufactured V8 out there today, better even than the Lexus 4.6 V8... or possibly, figuring out the accounting that lets you buy a car THAT well-engineered, including those fancy-pants sachs-boge shock absorbers and a ZF 6HP26 transmission, for, whatever, $32k-$42k. It's almost a steal just because of the high-end drivetrain components... whatever else it may or may not be, that kind of equipment doesn't even START to show up on any other car from any other manufacturer until you hit the $50k+ range.

</imho>

 

If you think Hyundai hasn't gotten people's attention with the Genesis, or that it can't compete with the "big boys", then you need to read this...

GenesisOwners.com: "What did your Genesis replace?"

 

I've always found RWD cars to have more predictable handling. Especially when coming out of corners on the gas.

 

FWD was much better in the snow back when RWD cars were nose heavy, the rear suspensions weren't IRS, and stability control wasn't on the radar.

I drove a Lexus GS 400 on all-seasons in Detroit this winter, no problem. Would have been much scarier without stability control, but any high end RWD car will have it.

 

FWD VS RWD I can see this could be a problem for anyone who lives in the snow belt or areas of the US where the snow flies in the winter months. Here in southen Ohio we don't get a whole lot of snow so many one or two times a winter we get 4 or six inches. This doesn't sway me to buy a FWD OR A RWD car. For years I have driven a RWD car in the snow and never got stuck, slid off the road or had an accident. Traction granted is better in the snow with a FWD yet the Genesis is not all about front and rear wheel drive. The Genesis has much more to offer for the consumer at a very smart price. The quality is included in the price and that to has a selling point. The car has style with refined lines.

I wouldn't fork out $45,000 bucks for a Lexus but would rather take my chances and purchase a RWD Genesis for thousands less. Yet if I lived up north then I would look a a FWD car like the Azera. Both cars are worth a look over any other model at the present time.

Heading down to Venice Fl for two weeks of golf today. Leaving the Azera at home but I have a Sonata waiting at the airport.

Later

 

Andy, very good pro-con FWD and RWD. But miss the main reson for RWD in the Genesis, the V8. This new engien for Hyundai would not fit sideways in the Genesis. Just like it doesn't fit in the coupe only the V6 is in the New Genesis RWD coupe.

 

QUOTE (Qman @ Mar 16 2009, 11:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=222712

Andy, very good pro-con FWD and RWD. But miss the main reson for RWD in the Genesis, the V8. This new engien for Hyundai would not fit sideways in the Genesis. Just like it doesn't fit in the coupe only the V6 is in the New Genesis RWD coupe.

They could have engineered the V8 to fit transversely. Not like this hasn't been done. But RWD is much better with so much torque.

The coupe--I suspect that the V8 could be made to fit. They probably just figure the market isn't there. If Infiniti offered a V8 in the G then Hyundai would likely offer one in the coupe.

 

QUOTE (mkaresh @ Mar 16 2009, 12:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=222717

They could have engineered the V8 to fit transversely. Not like this hasn't been done. But RWD is much better with so much torque.

Indeed they have, in such dreadful concoctions as the Lincoln Continental, (newer) Volvo S80 and Buick Lucerne. The front wheels are just NOT the right place for the amount of torque that comes out of a V8, even one as ghastly unrefined and inefficient as the GM's Northstar 4.6 V8. You wouldn't want to be driving that much torque through flimsy FWD components. Not that it can't be done; it just SHOULDN'T be, in a fair and just universe.

The pic above includes the transmission, BTW. Obviously, you have a different setup with a FWD car.

I'd love to see a V8 coupe though, cool. :innocent: At that price point & spec, though, you're no longer battling against "tuner" cars, the market becomes more a MB CLK / BMW 6 series / Jag XK competitor. And for that, the current materials & layout of the Gen Coupe wouldn't fly. So it kind of misses the target market for the whole model as-is, which is too bad.

 

Hyundai's mission with this car is to convince people that they are ready to compete at the true luxury level with quality, performance, price. The point at which this car went into R&D and throughout that lifecycle was a period of the resurrection of RWD. That, plus they are directly targeting BMW, M/B in their ads.

I must confess I haven't driven one yet. My personal views are just based on what I've read all over the net like on Autoblog, car sites, etc. I think the Genesis is a great looking and quality built sedan. Yet, I still think Hyundai has missed the mark with their typical "value" statement with this vehicle. One of the things that has made Hyundai successful even in these trying times (sales were up again last month year over year when most everyone else is way down) is their value statement. Good quality cars for the $. That for the $ part I don't see on the Genesis, at least on the big sedan. Coupe is a little better story, but I'm mainly talking about the sedan here. Everywhere I go I see the V6 models for $40K plus. Saw a V8 for over $46K! I know these are MSRP. Most of us know regardless of make, MSRP and Invoice are both bogus numbers. Only number that matters is what the dealer actually paid for the vehicle. If you're able to get them close to that point, you might get a pretty decent value for the $. Otherwise I don't think so. I would love to have a Genesis, but I am betting in 2-3 years you'll be able to pick up a very nice condition one for half price, just like I did with the Azera. Maybe I'm wrong and the Genesis will chart a different course down the road in terms of resale value but I'm not thinking that way right now.

I think the Azera offers a much better value for the $ compared with the Genesis at least. The Azera we picked up is primarily for my wife as a replacement for her Elantra that is out of warranty now and starting to cost us $ as any older car will. Next vehicle purchase is my turn :3gears: and at this point that purchase will likely be a G8 GT (possibly GXP if the deals are too good to resist). I know the Genesis is a more refined car and more luxury oriented, but for the $ (I can get a G8 GT for around $29K fully equipped) I like the value statement I see with the G8. I know we could go on forever about GM's troubles, but I want to keep this on topic so I won't do that. What can I say, I just turned 40 and haven't had a really good performance car since my '87 Grand National...in other words I'm overdue. Can't really call it my mid-life crisis car...as it's too practical for that...my guess is a Corvette or something else will fit that bill in a few years

 

The maximum MSRP on a Genesis is $42,000 for the V8 and $39,000 for the V6.

More of an issue than the price is that the Genesis lacks some of the features of competing luxury cars. Usually Hyundai has more features than the competition.

 

QUOTE (mkaresh @ Mar 29 2009, 12:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=225173

The maximum MSRP on a Genesis is $42,000 for the V8 and $39,000 for the V6.

More of an issue than the price is that the Genesis lacks some of the features of competing luxury cars. Usually Hyundai has more features than the competition.

Good luck with that. Seriously, maybe the dealers around here are just marking them way up or something but not a good value anyway you look at it.

 

QUOTE (Skyview @ Mar 29 2009, 03:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=225205

Good luck with that. Seriously, maybe the dealers around here are just marking them way up or something but not a good value anyway you look at it.

Skyview, I'm in Raleigh. I did drive a Genesis at Southern States - I work a block away from there - I have not seen any market rate adjustments on these. Market rate adjustments disappeared throughout the country months ago and you can now generally obtain a Genesis for a few K under MSRP, if you're willing to look a bit, and negotiate.

I guess, wherever you're located in NC, if you wanted to consider a Genesis, you could drive to Raleigh and skirt the absurd sticker prices you have seen.

 

QUOTE (andyman32 @ Mar 29 2009, 07:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=225251

Skyview, I'm in Raleigh. I did drive a Genesis at Southern States - I work a block away from there - I have not seen any market rate adjustments on these. Market rate adjustments disappeared throughout the country months ago and you can now generally obtain a Genesis for a few K under MSRP, if you're willing to look a bit, and negotiate.

I guess, wherever you're located in NC, if you wanted to consider a Genesis, you could drive to Raleigh and skirt the absurd sticker prices you have seen.

I'm actually in the Raleigh area...well not too far anyway. I haven't checked prices in a couple months or more, but when I did I looked there and at Johnson in Cary. Both had V6 models with $40K + on the sticker. Do you know much about Southern States? We bought my wife's Elantra from there and have had all bad experiences since then (haven't been back there in a couple of years or so). I had heard they were under new ownership/management or something but not sure it it was them or one of the others close by.

 

Yes, I bought a Buick Regal new from them in '02 - crummy salesmen and EXCELLENT service department with that car.

I bought our two Azeras there, both new, a little over a year ago. Excellent sales team and terrible service department. We're considering going to Johnson for any future service, it could be a whole lot better, but it couldn't be any worse. Kind of a PITA though since, as I said, I work nary a quarter-mile from the Southern States dealership in Raleigh.

 

QUOTE (andyman32 @ Mar 30 2009, 09:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=225520

Yes, I bought a Buick Regal new from them in '02 - crummy salesmen and EXCELLENT service department with that car.

I bought our two Azeras there, both new, a little over a year ago. Excellent sales team and terrible service department. We're considering going to Johnson for any future service, it could be a whole lot better, but it couldn't be any worse. Kind of a PITA though since, as I said, I work nary a quarter-mile from the Southern States dealership in Raleigh.

Well, you just confirmed my old opinions of them. I'll let you know how it goes at Johnson in Cary. I need to take ours in to have the battery harness thing done and the rear shade stopped working. So if I get there first I'll post how things go. Haven't been there for a service appt. yet as I refuse to get the out of warranty Elantra worked on at a Hyundai dealer. Azera is still under warranty thankfully.