It's all about rust..

Rust grows under the shim on the pad holder/caliper mount bracket.. this effectively locks the pad in place, apply brakes, caliper squeeze pad into rotor face, release pedal, and pads stay stuck in place, effectively dragging until it wear friction material away.. and then you squeeze it again, rinse and repeat.

Distinct possibility you had plenty of pad at time of inspect.. you just worked them over a bit after you left the shop however long ago that was..

4 pass to make straight,, toss that rotor in the trash can, it too thin now to handle heat from braking,, the constant dragging pad(s) heat that thing to no end and it look like flag in wind,, took 4 pass to cut the wave off it.. replace both rear rotors and be done with it.

TSB.. common sense actually applies here,, clean the rust off to bare metal, install shims, lube, fit pads, pads should move freely, lube the slide pins well, and run with it. I actually try to caot the bare metal on the mount brackets with under coat (recall uses undercoating), fit the shims, lube, and assemble.

 

Sbr711



You seem to know allot about Hyundai repair, have they changed the brakes in the DM version? Does the DM require as much attention with the brakes?

 

QUOTE (ComicDom1 @ Jul 1 2011, 02:41 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=469750

Why would the rear brake pads wear faster than the front pads when the front brakes usually do 70% of the stopping?

Because of all the dirt (dust, rocks, sand, water, snow, salt, etc) thrown up by the front wheels end up on the rears. All that extra grit accelerate the wear on the rear pads/rotors. That's why many people prefer drum brakes at the rear... more protection for the brake surfaces.

Went through 3 sets of rear pads on my 1992 Accord before I had to change the fronts.

 

QUOTE (Stef71 @ Jul 1 2011, 11:36 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=470092

Because of all the dirt (dust, rocks, sand, water, snow, salt, etc) thrown up by the front wheels end up on the rears. All that extra grit accelerate the wear on the rear pads/rotors. That's why many people prefer drum brakes at the rear... more protection for the brake surfaces.

Went through 3 sets of rear pads on my 1992 Accord before I had to change the fronts.

Actually, I never heard that explanation, although I think it's part of the problem. I don't think it's the case so much here. My interpretation was is was a rust/tolerance issue.

A M-16 is constructed and machined to fine tolerances. It's a "sport's car" of assault weapons. The problem is it's prone to jam if it gets a bad cartridge, or you drop it in the mud. An AK-47 is constructed INTENTIONALLY to have sloppy tolerance. It's a old "Ford Truck". You bury it in the mud, fill it up with dirt, etc... it still fires.

I have a large file in my tool box which I use to file down the "cartridge" as it were. Sometimes the new brake pad plates needs some additional cleaning up. Sloppy is okay here, never fails.

 

QUOTE (sbr711 @ Jul 1 2011, 10:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=469911

It's all about rust..

Rust grows under the shim on the pad holder/caliper mount bracket.. this effectively locks the pad in place, apply brakes, caliper squeeze pad into rotor face, release pedal, and pads stay stuck in place, effectively dragging until it wear friction material away.. and then you squeeze it again, rinse and repeat.

Distinct possibility you had plenty of pad at time of inspect.. you just worked them over a bit after you left the shop however long ago that was..

4 pass to make straight,, toss that rotor in the trash can, it too thin now to handle heat from braking,, the constant dragging pad(s) heat that thing to no end and it look like flag in wind,, took 4 pass to cut the wave off it.. replace both rear rotors and be done with it.

TSB.. common sense actually applies here,, clean the rust off to bare metal, install shims, lube, fit pads, pads should move freely, lube the slide pins well, and run with it. I actually try to caot the bare metal on the mount brackets with under coat (recall uses undercoating), fit the shims, lube, and assemble.

So why so much problem with the CM brakes and not so much problems with the SM? My 03 santa fe is still on original pads and a fair amount of pad left(at 88k miles). I've never done any maintenance or had any trouble since it was new. Granted I don't live in a salt state, but absolutely no troubles at all. Why did they change a working design?

 

Just as an update to those who might be interested. I did take my Santa Fe to the dealer after I serviced the brakes according the TSB. I wanted them to check my work even though I am very experienced working on cars and have been since I was 11. I asked them to also bleed the brakes and inquired about checking equalization in the system and observe the operation of the calipers.

As it turns out, upon dealer inspection, even though I just serviced the brakes using a wire brush, using the lubricants they outline in the TSBs, my driver side rear caliper was sticking. So the Dealer decided to replace my Caliper for free. Also they noticed because they actually did the inspection that my sway links needed to be replaced. So all this was done under warranty.

To make a long story short here, although I believe in servicing any car properly and in accordance with the manufactures guidelines if they are reasonable, I personally find like others have in the past that the lack of Hyundai to take care of this problem is unacceptable.

I will go further to say that Hyundai should be forced to recall these vehicles and the repairs done for free or the money refunded to anyone who owns this model and has had this issue. We all know the only way that this is going to happen is if we file complaints which you can do on the internet, and keep bringing attention anyway we can to this problem.

For those of you that have hammered others with the issue, you own them an apology post. I know I have been part of the brake threads in the past so I apologize now if I minimized or posted anything that might have brushed off this continuing problem.

Jason

 

Jason

My 2009 Santa Fe was approx 18months old and had been thru 2 winters with 42,000kms when the rear pads and rotors went...
I agree that the design/engineering is suspect here..esp with a vital component like the brakes...

the rust buildup on my rear pads and the rust buildup on the area where the pads mount in the caliper was excessive in my
opinion and it is pretty obvious that this excessive rust buildup caused the pads to stick in the caliper.. when I did the repair I filed
the ends of the pad ears to add a touch more clearance... see my thread http://www.hyundai-forums.com/index.php?sh...c=64087&hl=

I could not be bothered arguing with Hyundai about if this repair should be covered...

I did the repair myself for under $200...and it was pretty simple...though I would hate to be someone that
got stuck somewhere and a garage tried to make them pay what could be a pretty expensive repair bill...

I would think that Hyundai must be monitoring this issue...and hoping that they would not have to do a recall...as that
would be pretty expensive for them...so far, I like my Santa Fe (other than the gas mileage)...I wonder if we can file a
complaint online? in canada, not sure where to file? Transport Canada?

 

In the USA we can file a complaint, but it all depends on how many complain, and who in our government is paying attention. It appears that this problem has been ignored far to long to the point where it has crossed over several model years.

As I stated in my previous post, I also did my own repairs and servicing, but I wanted the job looked over by a Hyundai Service Dept Certified Mechanic. Even though Calipers can look like they are ok, unless you can observe them working you have no idea if they are sticking or not. It was a good thing I had the dealer check them. So even though the service work was done properly, the caliper had an issue.

Jason

 

QUOTE (ComicDom1 @ Jul 26 2011, 08:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=481568

In the USA we can file a complaint, but it all depends on how many complain, and who in our government is paying attention.

If there is a complaint to be filed here, IMO it is not that the brakes require annual maintenance to avoid seizing. It is that so many dealerships bundle this simple but important bit of maintenance with transmission flushes, fuel injector cleaning, and other unnecessary snake-oil services. The rational consumer says "No thanks, just change my oil" and later regrets it.

Another irritant is when they double dip... charging 1.5 hours labour for a job that only adds 20 minutes to the tire rotation which the client is already paying for separately. The result is an unreasonably hefty bill which, again, most rational consumers will decline. It adds up quickly, and does not eliminate brake jobs.

As you suggest, Jason... DIY is the way to go. It only costs 50 cents' worth of grease, and adds maybe 20 minutes to the job of removing snow tires in the spring. :thumbsup:

Don

 

QUOTE (Don67 @ Jul 26 2011, 09:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=481610

If there is a complaint to be filed here, IMO it is not that the brakes require annual maintenance to avoid seizing. It is that so many dealerships bundle this simple but important bit of maintenance with transmission flushes, fuel injector cleaning, and other unnecessary snake-oil services. The rational consumer says "No thanks, just change my oil" and later regrets it.

Another irritant is when they double dip... charging 1.5 hours labour for a job that only adds 20 minutes to the tire rotation which the client is already paying for separately. The result is an unreasonably hefty bill which, again, most rational consumers will decline. It adds up quickly, and does not eliminate brake jobs.

As you suggest, Jason... DIY is the way to go. It only costs 50 cents' worth of grease, and adds maybe 20 minutes to the job of removing snow tires in the spring. :thumbsup:

Don

Don I do not think I am suggesting DIY at all. While I do not disagree that all cars require service to keep their different systems such as brakes in good working order, I am saying that its clear there is a continuous problem in the brake system that is not adequately being addressed by Hyundai. If the solution is as simple matter of redesigning the size of the brake pads so they do not fit as tight to insure proper movement then it's surprising that Hyundai has not stepped up to the plate to correct this. Unfortunately I do not think that is really the issue. I believe the issue is a poor design of the rear brake caliper. Even the mechanic at my dealership said that around 60,000 miles he has seen many of them start to stick. There is a tremendous amount of pressure put on a rotor by the caliper squeezing the pads. There is also a great deal of heat generated as well from the friction. The heat has to go somewhere. If you ever have had a stuck caliper on a car then you know it can stop a wheel from turning if stuck a position where it puts pressure on the pads. Typically at the end of a drive, one of the last things we do is release the brake pedal after we have put the car in park. So to me it makes sense why a caliper would stick in this position if the cooling of that caliper is poorly designed. This would also make sense that it would continuously happen on the rear driver side wheel if the air flow that would cool that caliper was different on that side of the car than the other side.

Jason

 

Apologies, Jason; didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

My Santa Fe doesn't have the problem of tight-fitting pads... they move quite freely. Maybe this is more of a quality control/consistency issue than a design flaw(?)

 

QUOTE (Don67 @ Jul 27 2011, 10:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=481848

Apologies, Jason; didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

My Santa Fe doesn't have the problem of tight-fitting pads... they move quite freely. Maybe this is more of a quality control/consistency issue than a design flaw(?)

Don, no offense taken. I have nothing but respect for you and your comments.

Quality control is always an issue for any manufacturer. That is why the statical quality control methods are used today. In that regard you bring up a very valid point.

What really bothers me is the fact that we all know Hyundai has to be very aware of the problem by now and has not bothered to step up and resolve the issue. Apparently, except for issuing a couple of TSB's to cover their butt's, they have all but ignored it. If a problem like this clearly crosses over several model years then its clearly evident that Hyundai will do nothing to resolve it unless they are forced either by the government consumer protection agencies or a class action law suit.

Jason

 

Easy solution... make everything from stainless steel,, then exposed to elements rust/corrosion be greatly reduced, but cost of manufacture go up and be passed to end user.. or stop driving in adverse conditions.

Sure they could add extra clearance to the pad to mounts, but then there will be marked increase of complaint that there is a click noise the first time I apply brake pedal in reverse, and then first time I apply pedal rolling forward.. seen it with Toyota,, just told the people the added clearance take longer for rust to seize the pads in the mounts.

 

QUOTE (sbr711 @ Jul 27 2011, 06:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=482059

Easy solution... make everything from stainless steel,, then exposed to elements rust/corrosion be greatly reduced, but cost of manufacture go up and be passed to end user.. or stop driving in adverse conditions.

Sure they could add extra clearance to the pad to mounts, but then there will be marked increase of complaint that there is a click noise the first time I apply brake pedal in reverse, and then first time I apply pedal rolling forward.. seen it with Toyota,, just told the people the added clearance take longer for rust to seize the pads in the mounts.

No disrespect, but they could certainly build the car right in the first place. I have a 1995 Isuzu Trooper and it has 4 wheel disk brakes and it does not have the same issues.

Its not about us as end users coming up with a solution, its about the car manufacturer being held accountable and stepping up and taking responsibility for an actual flaw in the design and making it right. So far Hyundai has not done this.

If you consider the price they are selling a Santa Fe for today and the fact that it is built in one of the most modern automated factories that exists today, then I think they could find a few pennies or dollars to correct the design.

What are we going to hear next? Oh, its not our fault, the robot was out of adjustment? Please!

Jason

 

Having worked in the car business I can understand where sbr711 is coming from.

If tight-fitting brake pads result in 500 seizure complaints while loose-fitting pads reduce in 5,000 noise complaints, then you have no choice but to install tight-fitting pads. And if resolving every consumer complaint about brake materials, dashboard materials, upholstery materials, paint materials, suspension materials, tire materials, etc. results in a $50,000 Santa Fe that nobody buys, then you have no choice but to go with the $30,000 version that they do buy.

It's a business, not a passion. :57:

 

But as others, myself included, have pointed out in the past -- there's no reason to make this an either/or situation. Many of us have owned disc brake equipped vehicles where NEITHER problem exists.

 

QUOTE (canderson @ Jul 27 2011, 10:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=482166

Many of us have owned disc brake equipped vehicles where NEITHER problem exists.

... and yet all of us chose to replace those wonderful vehicles with a Santa Fe, in large part because of price, and despite any brake woes we still give it high marks for owner satisfaction. All of which supports my contention that Hyundai made the right business decision.

PS: For the record my 2004 Nissan Quest seized its rear brakes after 2.5 years, while my Santa Fe did not. :bwekk:

 

QUOTE (Don67 @ Jul 27 2011, 10:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=482182

... and yet all of us chose to replace those wonderful vehicles with a Santa Fe, in large part because of price, and despite any brake woes we still give it high marks for owner satisfaction. All of which supports my contention that Hyundai made the right business decision.

PS: For the record my 2004 Nissan Quest seized its rear brakes after 2.5 years, while my Santa Fe did not. :bwekk:

All of us bought the Santa Fe unaware of the problem until is surfaced. We replaced our other vehicles by choice and some of us out of necessity. Emission standards, frame rust through, gas mileage, and many other reasons for people to get another vehicle. Perhaps the smartest people are the ones that wait for a year or two and then purchase a vehicle with low mileage after the significant loss of value from new and the issues are pretty clearly established.

Granted we can go off in many directions in regard to why people buy cars and how many other models have problems in one area or another. Even so none of those things has anything with this topic or this thread.

Hyundai used a 100,000 mile warranty gimmick to attract buyers to this car. Also lets not for get the Bumper to Bumper warranty for 60.000 coverage. Usually these types of warranties exclude wearable parts like brake pads, oil, rotors, filters, and other common sense things. At what point did brake calipers become wearable parts and excluded from the warranty?

Stuck calipers are a design flaw and its as simple as that. It does not matter what is causing them to get stuck, what matters is they are getting stuck and causing other parts to have issues. If the Brake calipers locking up were causing accidents I bet you would find Hyundai stepping right up to fix the issue quickly because their profit and their sales would suffer. Fortunately for Hyundai the major damage here is in the pocket of the owner who are the ones who end up paying for the design flaw.

So why don't we agree at this point to stop making excuses for Hyundai and other manufacturers at this point. Many of us have followed the service schedules and still end up with the same problems. If we have followed what the manufacturer has required to avoid the issue then there is no excuse for Hyundai or any other manufacturer if the problem keep resurfacing.

It is Time that Hyundai steps up and takes care of this issue and its customers properly.

Jason

 

QUOTE (ComicDom1 @ Jul 28 2011, 01:33 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=482243

Stuck calipers are a design flaw and its as simple as that.
Stuck calipers can happen on any car.. all it is is a chunk of metal with a hole in it, a piston to fill the hole, and fluid pressure to move the piston. Brake fluid attracts moisture, and water and metal =rust.. then we have path for caliper to float/center itself over the pads, so which part are you saying is "stuck" as a design flaw ??,, the piston in the bore, or the slides for caliper centering ?

Now the issue we have here, is......... it is not the calipers that is stuck.... it is the pads seized in the mounts due to rust/exposure to the elements.. how do I know this you may ask ?? I have cleaned up a pile of rear pad mounting brackets of rust so the pads fit back in the mount bracket and move freely so when you let off pedal and caliper piston release pressure off the pads, the pads in turn let pressure of the friction surface.

I have had 1 seized caliper, it was on a Sonata... fella drove long enough to bake the pads and bake the caliper to where the piston would not retract in the caliper body.


It is Time that Hyundai steps up and takes care of this issue and its customers properly.
This ought to be good, what is your idea ?

 

Stuck calipers can happen on any car..

Totally agree. My 6 years old Honda Accord 5 speed (so had to use hand brake everyday), one day went to leave and rear calipers would not release the wheels. Needed both rear calipers replaced.

2 weeks ago, while driving at night, I saw a fourth generation (2007 - present) Nissan Altima pass me on the highway and the rear passenger disk was glowing orange. I thought I was watching an F1 race car at the end of the long strait. Caught up to him to flag him and let him know.

 

Brake fluid exists in a closed system so if the system is bled properly and air tight there should not be an issue attracting moisture or anything else. I think I was very clear and stated it was caliper. If you need me to get down to the graphic detail, the Caliper piston was the issue. In fact it was enough of an issue that my dealer replaced it. Going further, even the dealer mechanic stated that around 60,000 miles he said the rear caliper piston on the drivers side have a tendency to stick. Why would the dealer mechanic say this if it was not true.

My response to calipers problems on other cars is as follows:

I have never denied or suggested that other cars do not have issues including brake calipers. I think that needs to be followed up with that we have no idea how others maintain their cars. I think we will all agree that there are many people who do not do routine service, and there are many people who just wait until something breaks or needs repair before they will spend the money to fix it. This is a very true reality especially in todays economy.

I am 54 years old. I have worked on many vehicles in my life both foreign and domestic built. Given my age, it should be clear that I have seen many a disk brake caliper. I started turning wrenches when I was 11. At one time in my life I also worked for a car dealer in the shop to earn my living. While none of that makes me an expert or an engineer, it certainly does make me experienced. Any car's brakes will suffer from lack of proper service but that is not the problem we are addressing here.

What we are addressing is a problem specific to the Santa Fe and specific to the the Drivers Side Rear Caliper. As many will attest it is now a commonly known problem. What is seems we are debating here is if Hyundai should be held responsible. In my opinion if this problem commonly occurs and it is specific to the same location on the car its a design flaw. Its not brain surgery to figure that out. If it was happening to both the rear wheels on the Santa Fe then I would buy in to the lack of service argument but its not.

If the dealer mechanics are aware of the problem then its not a random issue. Also if the Manufacturer Hyundai is aware to the point where they have taken the time to Issue two different TSB(Technical Service Bulletins) then its a strong indication of an existing inherent problem. If my previous statement is not true then why would Hyundai have even bothered issuing the TSBs.

I think the last two paragraphs spell things out pretty clearly.

Jason

 

QUOTE (Stef71 @ Jul 28 2011, 07:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=482608

Stuck calipers can happen on any car..

Totally agree. My 6 years old Honda Accord 5 speed (so had to use hand brake everyday), one day went to leave and rear calipers would not release the wheels. Needed both rear calipers replaced.

2 weeks ago, while driving at night, I saw a fourth generation (2007 - present) Nissan Altima pass me on the highway and the rear passenger disk was glowing orange. I thought I was watching an F1 race car at the end of the long strait. Caught up to him to flag him and let him know.

Not to be difficult here, but how long were you using the handbrake? In other words how long were you aware there was a problem before you bothered to address it? Its very unusual for two calipers to hang up at one time. I would have to look up a diagram of your honda's brake system to really make a proper comment in regard to what you posted.


Jason

 

QUOTE (ComicDom1 @ Jul 29 2011, 12:54 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=482726

Not to be difficult here, but how long were you using the handbrake? In other words how long were you aware there was a problem before you bothered to address it? Its very unusual for two calipers to hang up at one time. I would have to look up a diagram of your honda's brake system to really make a proper comment in regard to what you posted.


Jason

As I mentioned, it was a 5 speed (manual transmission) so it was used multiple times a day, everyday. But I could have been more clear. One side did not release at all, and the other one, after inspection, was also replaced since it was about to do the same.

As for maintenance, I had checked the brakes in the fall when I mounted my snow tires and everything looked OK (did not take them apart but did asked somebody to apply the handbrake for me while I watched the parts move. Problem happened in February/March (middle of winter and lots of snow around here), so ice buildup might have been a contributing factor that morning but still does not change the fact that both had to be replaced.

Chrysler had a bad transmission in their minivans for years (10+) and I don't remember ever seeing a recall on them and obviously, took them forever to change the design to address the problem. And what about GM and their gasket/coolant problem that needed to be brought to the courts before they did anything...

Not saying that there is not an issue that might need to be addressed by Hyundai. The design was new in 2007. If the problem takes about 3-5 years to develop and cause the brakes to get stuck (and only in the rust belt if I remember correctly) that brings us to 2009-2010 before nobody notices anything. Then there as to be a number large enough to realize that you have a design flaw, then redesign the part and test and when you have a solution, replaced the parts as needed unless they decide to do a voluntary recall and the government forces them.

BTW, I just checked and the TSB about that problem is dated October 2010 which confirms the timeline I stated in the paragraph above. Which also mean that the 2011 models are still likely to have the problem also. 2012 will probably be spared. If the number of reported problem keep going up, then a recall may still happen. I would continue to report the problem to the dealership/corporate and it should help. But coming in screaming and kicking from the get go will not make you any friends with Hyundai corp.

Just my 2 cents

 

We just had to replace the rear brakes and rotors on my wifes 08 santa fe with only 27k miles on it. $450 I am not happy about.

Did any of you guys file an official complaint? If so can you point me in the direction of where I should look? thanks

 

Some people have complained, but they were generally people whose brakes seized within a year or two. After five years I think you're a little late in all honesty.

The importance of annual rear brake maintenance on the Santa Fe, and on many other cars (including my infamous 2004 Nissan Quest, which needed a rear brake job after 2.5 years), has been covered ad nauseam in this forum as well as the owner's manual.

 

wow. nice response. :dry:

My wifes car is garaged. Serviced regularly by the dealer who does perform the brake maintenance. Service manager said they have these all the time with this model even with regular maintenance and suggested it wouldnt hurt to follow up with hyundai (he eluded to design defect). So after finding this thread i figured others have been through the process could point me in the right direction. My 2000 elantra whent 120k and only needed rear brakes by its end of life and was never garaged.

thanks for your ASSumptions

 

wow. nice response //thanks for your ASSumptions

Careful on that high horse... it's a long way down.

Your original post omitted key information about the vehicle's service history. Without this information you are just one of a million people beating the same tired old horse on the internet. "The brakes on my car seized after ___ years of neglect and now I want a free lunch. "

Sbr711's brutal honesty might not sit well with you, but he is one of the most knowledgeable and helpful Hyundai techs you will find anywhere online. Consider yourself educated by one of the best. :57:

 

My original post was not a request for help fixing my car. It was for guidance on how to follow up an official complaint since people mention doing so could help with initiating a recall. There are obviously many people having the same exact issue with their car after roughly the same amout of use, which in comparrison to other vehicles seems to be at a higher rate. *Note the date of this thread 2011.

No big deal, but I dont appreciate the child like responses to a thread that was previously not headed in that direction.