wont make any difference to me. i will probably be dead. or, i wont know what day it is, and soiling myself, so driving will be out of the question. especially with ventilated seats.

 

I feel exactly the same way ...

 

 

Bullsh— they should keep the sonata and bring the N line with 300 horsepower

 

You realize every manufacturer is doing that, right? There’s been a slew of announcements along those lines from most manufacturers in the past few months.

 

Plug-in hybrids will be around for long after pure fuel burners are gone.

 

makes more sense than ev's

 

The world cannot do without oil.
ICE engines will be around in the forceable future for a long time.
Both Hyundai and Toyota will build ICE vehicles based on public demand.
I can see some low volume selling mid-priced vehicles with a large carbon foot print trying the EV market and if they still don't sell they'll be dropped. The EV market will serve a small niche area of the auto marketplace as they have too many limitations and will be expensive to service and repair.

 

Then why are all manufacturers providing a timeline for when they’ll no longer build anything other than EV?

It’s ICE that will be the niche, not EV. It’ll take a couple of decades to get there, if not more, but it’s most certainly happening. For one, car manufacturers design for a worldwide market, not specific countries, and future environmental regulations around the world pretty much mandate an EV future.

 

EVs have problems they haven’t overcome:
Charging frequency and delay times.
Battery range.
Battery life.
Battery weight.
Disposing of batteries in environmentally safe way
Battery replacement costs.
Vulnerable to extreme heat, cold, and load capabilities.
Source of materials to build batteries.
Chips, sensors and Modules are outdated and very expensive.
Cost to insure an EV vehicle higher than ICE vehicle.
EVs more expensive to buy.

 

EVs have problems they haven’t overcome:
Charging frequency and delay times.

It’s getting better. Faster chargers are coming online. The tech will improve over the next couple of decades.

Battery range.

Getting better too. Tech will also improve.

Battery life.

Also getting better. And manufacturers are now reserving part of the battery for later in life. Plenty of time to improve the tech.

Battery weight.

OK. But it’s manageable. The massive energy helps there. There’s even EV races now.

Disposing of batteries in environmentally safe way

And today’s junk yards are better?

Battery replacement costs.

Replacing an ICE isn’t cheap either.

Vulnerable to extreme heat, cold, and load capabilities.

Sure. Getting better too though: heated and cooled battery packs… etc. Tech will improve.

Source of materials to build batteries.

Yes, that’s generally true. It’s a problem that’s being addressed globally though, because everyone realizes this is needed.

Chips, sensors and Modules are outdated and very expensive.

That’s not true at all. Why on earth would you think that? It’s high-tech electronics, just as advanced as your cell phone, but for a different purpose.

Cost to insure an EV vehicle higher than ICE vehicle.

Never checked, so don’t know.

EVs more expensive to buy.

Go check the price of the new F-150 Lightning, you might be surprised. And also: duh. It’s low volume, so yes it’s generally more expensive. Mass market adoption will bring cost down. Common sense.


Look, nobody’s saying the tech is perfect. But nothing is, for one. For second, the tech will improve over time. Just like it does whenever some new tech is invented. You can’t reject a tech in its infancy just because it’s difficult and expensive. With that kind of reasoning, we wouldn’t have planes, computers, or maybe even ICE. You gotta start somewhere, improve the tech, mass produce it, bring cost down… etc. That takes time. That doesn’t mean it’s going to stay like that forever or that it’s automatically doomed.

It’s pretty **** obvious that we’re headed for an EV future as far as cars go. That ship’s already sailed at this point.

 

Well, at least hopefully the EV's won't have oil burning and bearing failure issues!
I am holding on to my manual Veloster Turbo for now but know that with the charging and battery technology changing and improving, this is inevitable. CA has it sight set on 2035.

 

*Faster charging costs more and still takes too long compared to gas fill up.
*Environment, road conditions, driving habits, cheaper materials to reduce weight will limit range.
*Fast charging reduces battery life.
*The bigger the battery the more power needed to move the EV.
*There is no system anywhere in North America to safely dispose EV car batteries.
*I've seen stories over the past year of replacement batteries costing from $6.000 to $11,000 my ice is cheaper.
*I've personally seen EVs struggling on Hwy 81 going up those long steep grades in NY State. They pass you on level ground but when they get up near the top their speed is reduced, especially when they have passengers in them thus reduced range. We all know batteries lose capacity in extreme heat or cold.
* Leading edge micro chips, etc, not being used. My integrity source is an interview from an executive of OECA.
*I researched EVs and ICEs and my insurance agent told me my insurance rate would be less for ICE due to the cost of replacing electrification used in an EV.
*The cost to build EVs is higher compared to an IC built vehicle. They will have to compete in the middle range price market, not any lower.

 

You’re just repeating yourself at this point. I guess you missed the part about how the tech will improve and go down in cost. You keep talking about today’s issues as if they will always be present. That isn’t how tech works. Any kind of tech, not just EV. A lot of what you mention is being worked on and will improve.

You’re the guy in the early 20th century who wanted to stick with horses because ICE were terrible. You can’t keep rejecting progress because it’s not yet a solution for the masses. It has to start somewhere first in order to get to the masses.

 

By 2040 you won't see that many ICE vehicles around. Many speculate solid state batteries will become mainstream by 2030. This will mean 10-15 minute charge times. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles might be a viable alternative by 2030. I personally believe pure ICE (no hybrids) vehicle sales will be 70% of the market in 2025 but less than 30% by 2030. Once technological hurdles are overcome and pricing becomes competitive things will move quickly.

Now as for ICE devotees, I can see where gas prices fall as demand drops. However gasoline stations might be limited to interstates by the 2040s.

... and of course the above are only my guesses. One good thing about being a senior: I won't be around to hear people tell me I was wrong!

On a related note, self driving electric vehicles should be a reality by the late 2020s. I can see where self driving Uber/Lyft vehicles becoming commonplace, to the point where new car sales will drop substantially.

IMHO, all of this is very exciting.

 

The Great Awakening will bring us Nikola Tesla's free electricity

 

I wouldn't he surprised that many many many many many many many years ago, people were arguing about horses vs cars. Eventually, cars too over. And yes, a pregnant horse cannot produce 1½HP.

 

And pray tell how do you power all of the charging stations? And I can see it now, lines waiting to charge that will take 15 or more minutes. And then there's always a power failure.

 

But now isn't the future. There is plenty of time for the infrastructure to get built-up. The more the demand increases, the more the utility companies will be incentivized to provide the service and fulfill demand. Nobody's arguing that the grid would be capable of handling everyone driving an EV today. It clearly can't. But you have to start somewhere.

I can just see the farmers and truckers using electric on long hauls. Not. Or rural people where 50 mile trips are the rule And where is all the power going to come from? Don't tell me solar and wind because neither are self supporting 24/7.

There is no need to go all electric except government mandate based on hubris and partisan politics.

50 miles? Electric cars have a much bigger range these days. Definitely possible. Truckers are another story (although there are electric trucks being developed today). EV isn't suitable for every need yet. It's definitely a candidate for cars though.

There is plenty of room to build-up renewable energy sources. I don't think anyone's expecting that they will replace traditional electricity sources any time soon. But they're certainly a viable source with much room to grow.

And no need to go electric? You do realize oil is a finite resource ultimately, right? You also realize the byproduct of internal combustion is carbon dioxide, right? And you do know that CO released into an atmosphere creates a green house effect that raises the temperature of said atmosphere and is harmful to the environment, right? Before you point it out: electricity generation does pollute too, but that's why there's an focus on renewables. Not all problems have been sold by any means. But again, gotta start somewhere.

 

Electric is here to stay. It will grow faster than you think. Look how the internet took off, and who expected everyone to be running around with a phone in their pocket. Electric engines need very little service, and we all already have computers built into our cars. Only issue I see is what others are worried about, quick charging for long trips. As batteries give us more range, quicker charging, and municipalities build out more support, we will all adapt. I expect at some point they will all be wireless charging while sitting in a parking spot, similar to modern smartphones. Infrastructure will improve to handle it, because they will be making more money from demand.

 

I can just see the farmers and truckers using electric on long hauls. Not. Or rural people where 50 mile trips are the rule And where is all the power going to come from? Don't tell me solar and wind because neither are self supporting 24/7.

There is no need to go all electric except government mandate based on hubris and partisan politics.

 

There is no need to go all electric except government mandate based on hubris and partisan politics.

Bingo! The sheep are being fed “the line” and they’re falling for it hook line and sinker. Meanwhile, people like Al Gore who lives in his 15 million dollar mansion, with a “climate footprint” the size of Manhattan, is getting rich.

 

You need to go back further in history. Dinosaurs got so big for a reason. The plant growth was so thick because the CO2 was in the 1000s ppm. And there are other ideas on oil as it is made continuously deep in the earth.

There is nothing wrong with atmospheric CO2 levels of 1000ppm. We would thrive. Climate change rhetoric is about planet depopulation. Why do you think they pump CO2 into green houses?

 

Uhh… there was no human life when dinosaurs were around. The goal is for humans to survive.

And oil is made of micro organisms under certain conditions for a few million years. While it’s technically still happening, the formation of oil is so slow that it’s essentially non-existent for future generations of humans. It’s finite for all intents and purposes. We’ll run out long before reserves are replenished naturally. Do you actually understand how any of this works?

We wouldn’t thrive under high CO2 levels. In fact, there was no human life the last time CO2 levels were as high as they are today. Even if we survive 1000ppm, the rise in temperature would result in water levels being substantially higher than they are today, wiping out a big part of existing inhabited areas, and with massive consequences on food supply. It would result in millions of deaths. That’s not thriving.

Why do you think the greenhouses you refer to are enclosed spaces that we don’t live in?

And this is getting way off topic. The point is that there is verified science behind all of this and justifying the push towards EV that Hyundai and many others are taking.

 

Hyundai can't even build an ICE engine property , what hope is there..

 

All People Need to Know.

Only a finite number of trees and dinosaurs died to make oil, nat gas and coal.

Learn how to read the Commodity Index at CBOE. The gas and oil futures options are pointing to higher prices, going out 2 months to 2 years. Gasoline prices in EU is now $12 USD for gallon or 3.2 liters. Asian gas prices are $8 -$12 per gallon or 3.2 liters.

The new Ionic 5 compact cross over electric SUV, performance model can go over 350 miles and go 0-62 mph (or 0-100 Kph) in 4 sec!!! It gets 70 to 100 eMPG. With Hyundai’s 800V fast charge, you can fill 80% in 20 minutes! Or 20% charge in 5 minutes for 100 km range.

It’s not the pollution. It’s when 30-40 mpg cars have to pay more for fuel than the mortgage payment on car each month, just for gas and service, and electric is subsidized. Majority of electricity produced in USA used Coal, Gas and Bunker Oil. Remember Liberal Seattle City Light, Puget Sound Energy and Portland Electric own the world largest open coal pit mine and largest coal burning electric plant on earth. it’s been sited by EPA as the highest heavy metal polluter and highest CO2 emission power plant on Earth, ...and it’s owned by Seattle and Portland electric users.

100 million electric cars with 100 kWh battery will be the turning point. That is when enough battery vehicles can charge and discharge to the grid to support sustainable energy and we need 100 GigaWatt Nuclear Base-Load Power Plants.

We also need industrial scale electric car recycling operation to capture 60-70% of the material.

It’s all about the money. Many of my friend stopped flying GA because the fuel and service cost more than the mortgage on a multi-million aircraft. A single engine Piper M350 is over a million, burns 25+ gallon per hour at $5-$7 for 100 LL avgas, or over $100+ per hour of flight just for fuel. If you go to Piper M500 you‘re into Turbojet-Prop, burning over 35 gallons of Jet-A per hour of flight.

In UK, ...there seems to be a huge movement toward eBikes, eBike lanes, eBike parking. GCN continuously prove, the pedal bicycles are always faster around London. I would like them to prove that in Huston Texas or Denver Colorado.

Hybrid Metro Buses are the worst polluting vehicle. It operated on electricity in the city. But it operates at less than 20% capacity for majority of operating hours, burning Diesel at 30 to 60 gallons per hours towing a 50,000 lbs empty monstrosity

blah, blah , blah, ... It’s the cost of refined gasoline and raw oil.

 

Interesting discussion here. Back to the our ability to support an all these electric vehicles, I can see where if annual growth stays modest (< 10%) energy providers can catch up somehow. However if we experience tremendous growth in electric vehicles in the late 2020s, as is expected, will we see rolling brownouts if energy providers are maxed out? Nuclear power plants cannot be developed in such a short period even if there was the political will to build them. Tremendous savings can be the better efficiencies (.. look at the energy savings from LED bulbs), more domestic/commercial use of solar energy, but these savings alone won't be anything close to what is required.

I fear we might be moving like mad into a new technology only to run into a brick wall.

 

They are closing all the coal plants and nukes too. Where is the electricity going to come from? And oil is not finite or we would not be consciously discovering 'more' especially at great depths and pressure under the sea.

Only after the Great Awakening and the release or Telsa's old patents will we go all electric as we can then easily, cheaply and locally generate electricity with no pollution 24/7.

 

And oil is not finite or we would not be consciously discovering 'more' especially at great depths and pressure under the sea.

Just because more oil is being found doesn't mean it's not finite. It just means we're getting better at extracting what is already there. We're pushing back the no-more-oil deadline by getting oil from more remote areas, but that doesn't mean more is being created. It's freaking science - read up on it a little: it takes millions of years under the right conditions for micro-organisms to turn into oil. We'll have used up all the oil a long long time before more can be naturally replenished.

They can quit making them at their own risk. If the government mandates them then you know it's a taxpayer paid for scam.

Last I checked, the US government hasn't set a date for when ICE could no longer be sold. Some other countries have. Manufacturers are taking it upon themselves anyway. GM by 2035, Jaguar by 2025, VW (the brand, not the group) by 2026, Volvo by 2030, Toyota by 2040... etc.

 

No matter whether you like it or not, electric is coming, politics aside. As usual, similar to when Government placed emission reduction requirements, the target dates will change for full switchover for sale of new cars.
Remember:
You can still drive a fossil fuel vehicle past manufacturer's end dates
You can still buy older fossil fuel cars after that date
... and sooner or later you'll own an antique and everything that goes with it

and by the time more EV cars exist than fossil fuel cars, it will be all new charging technology, maybe new ways to generate electricity, maybe batteries that self charge better (regen) who knows, and then you'll start complaining about the sky filled with delivery drones and flying cars. That is if we are still around as I too am a senior.

 

No doubt electric is the way to go. It's just that right now we are woefully unprepared and the government pushing the product before infrastructure is foolish.

They can quit making them at their own risk. If the government mandates them then you know it's a taxpayer paid for scam.

 

Just don’t blame the farting cows.

 

I, for one, am not a fan. This will only prevent me from buying another Hyundai as they move in this direction. It's obvious to me that support and future maintenance for gas powered cars will take a back seat. Thoughts?

EXCLUSIVE Hyundai to slash combustion engine line-up, invest in EVs - sources

Please don’t be so short sighted. There will be fewer than 10% of gasoline/diesel cars produced by 2040. No automobile manufacturers will be relying on those antiquated products. Looks like you will have to buy antiques for the remainder of your life.

 

Yup; I guess I am hanging onto my big Ford Expedition with the V8 gas guzzler.

 

I will pledge to cease the use of all combustion engines by 2040 as well.

It's easy to make grand promises for something 20yrs away when you probably won't be around. And no one will remember or care at that time.