I hate to sound the Pessimist, but having experienced the exact-same problem with the Toyota 4-AG, a Mitsu 4G63, and the Hyundai 1.6 on my (now dead) Accent (not to mention hundreds or maybe even thousands of other people with the same problem), and essentially ignored by all of the corporations - there's a precedent for the manufacturer(s) to say "It's Normal".

Good Luck to you, but I have my doubts as to you obtaining Satisfaction in this matter.

 

Well the car is going in on Monday for a few days, they are gunna tear into the motor and find both the noises....Hyundai Canada is now involved, and been very curtious, and helpful so far with getting stuff done.


Well see what happens, I'll keep you posted

Duro

 

One of my Hyundai mechanic told me that is normal for GDI engine, a little bit noisier than regular engine. Not sure whether or not it is true but GDI has been first used more than a decade a go by Mitsubishi. GDI should have been evolved...

 

This is not regarding the GDI motor, engine noise is normal for them....caused by the injectors, and high pressures, and ultra lean mixtures

This is refering to the Alpha II engine, which is plain fuel injection, and been in production since 2005

Duro

 

Well picked up the car today, it's been at the dealership for 4 days.

They replaced 2 ignition coils, 4 spark plugs, and the engine drivebelts, all under warranty.

They said that the vehicle had a miss fire when cold and ran very rough (I didn't feel it running rough), and also the drive belts were very noisy when cold.

So we will see what the next few days are like, and we'll see if the noise is still present

Duro

 

So....what's the verdict? Is the noise gone?

 

Well it's been a few days since i got it back

The lower end knock, is drastically reduced....maybe 5-10 seconds max if at all.

However the valve rattle at 1750rpm is still present, and unchanged.

I will wait a few days before contacting the dealership with the results to give it enough time...although i feel nothing will change. Then we will see what they are willing to do.

I am wondering if stepping up to 5w30 will eliminate, or dampen the sound a bit, this may be another avenue I will discuss with the dealership.

Duro

 

Well I emailed the service manager on Wednesday about the noises, and he called me back on Friday and recommended that I get a second opinion. So basically they told me to screw off, there not doing anymore to repair this problem.

I am currently writing an extensive letter to Hyundai Canada regarding my frustration with their product, and my disgust in the dealership that sold me the car, and their unwillingness to help me with this situation. My vehicle has been in for service 10 times since March 31st, 2011 when I took delivery. Only 4 of those 10 have been for regular maintence.

So we will see what Hyundai Canada says, as this will dictate my next moves.
If they are unwilling to resolve this issue quickly and perminately then unfortunetly this will be legal action on my part.

Just my 2 cents
Duro

 

Keep up the good fight my friend! You are resilient!

 

Well I sent my letter to Hyundai Canada this morning. After talking with legal counsel, I have decided the whole diplomatic approach was no longer working as I have been trying it for almost a year. It is time to play hardball and demand the engine be replaced.

I will keep you guys posted, however the update may be vague as this is now being to go towards legal action, and starting to step up the latter. Until the issue is completely dealt with I will have to keep tight lipped, in order to keep all my options open

Thanks for you understanding
Duro

 

The vehicle goes back next week to the dealership for the Hyundai Engineers to do further diagnosis, they want to hear the noise for them selves, and determain the cause. This will be there last chance to fix it, before it gets escalated and a third party gets involved. Let hope they stop wasting everyone's time and just replace the whole motor assembly, with a new one (no reman, refurbished, etc).....NEW.

Duro

 

Welcome back ^^^sorry about the news

The vehicle goes back next week to the dealership for the Hyundai Engineers to do further diagnosis, they want to hear the noise for them selves, and determain the cause. This will be there last chance to fix it, before it gets escalated and a third party gets involved. Let hope they stop wasting everyone's time and just replace the whole motor assembly, with a new one (no reman, refurbished, etc).....NEW.

Just an update

DSM was down and listened to the noise and said he heard it, however he doesn't feel it is excessive or abnormal.

I spoke to the dealership general manager and told him that I was not impressed, because I have had 2 independent mechanics listen to the noise. Both feel the noise is excessive valvetrain noise, and they suspect the HLA's are at fault. So I have 2 technicians with no bias telling me the noise is abnormal, and the dealership saying it's normal.

I stated the to manager that if it is indeed a normal noise, then Hyundai Canada will have no problem putting it in writing that this noise is normal, and does not cause any engine damage. Therefor I have it documented for any future problems.


I also stated that if I am pushed to go into arbitration to resolve this issue, that I will make this whole issue and customer treatment public, which will not look good on the dealership, aswell as Hyundai Canada. This made him very nervous, and he stated that he would be conversing with Hyundai Canada to determain how far they are willing to go with this issue. I stated that I will continue to push the issue, and become more demanding until there is a resolution found that pleases me as the customer. I will except nothing less.

Just an update
Duro

 

noise is back in my case. oil was changed recently so that's not it.

i will check ps belt to see if it loosened up a bit. I know in my case it rattles/taps/whatever for a good 2 minutes or so.

I think warming to 140f like someone said makes sense.

it could be either some ccvt thing coming into play or perhaps piston slap, or perhaps the belt/pulley warming/expanding thereby tightening up and stopping the noise. Easy to see if the belt is loose so will check that first.

 

So this morning,, started car and duplicated the noise. Only happens while engine is cold and before it warms up. i can make it happen by going under hood, while engine running, and revving engine via the throttle blade. its knocks/taps on the way down back to idle but never at the higher rpm.

The noise is coming from the intake manifold. So, maybe it's a lifter? If it was piston slap wouldn't it still do it while revved?? How about lifter? Will the lifter make noise revving as well as on the way down?

 

This is my same noise, yes a lifter will cause this

Duro

 

Well got a call from my dealer yesterday, they want to send the car to another local dealer for a second opinion.

So last night I drop the car off at the other dealer, and get my loaner.

I get a call today from the other dealer stating that they have heard the noise, and it is abnormal.
Asking if they can have the vehicle overnight to further diagnosis. I said sure no problem THANK YOU

So I will wait for a call tommorrow to determain what the noise is, I will keep you guys updated.

Duro

 

The other Dealership called back on Wednesday, and confirmed the noise he hears in the engine is indeed the same noise. He couldn't believe the previous dealership couldn't hear it. It's a obvious mechanical rattle

He feels the noise is to fast to be an individual lifter, and he doesn't believe that multiple lifters are defective, as they are not common with these motors. However he feels the timing chain tensioner is leaking down at night, and taking along time to pump up, and bleed the air out of it's self. Thus allowing the chain to be slacked and noisy.

He has ordered the tensioner and will be installed on Friday.
I am in a loaner vehicle so doesn't much matter to me how long it takes.

The technician feels about 70% sure this will fix the noise, and will keep me posted. I thanked him many times, as they have done more work in one visit, than the last eight (yes thats 8) visits to my current dealer regarding this noise.

I don't want to conclude this will fix it yet until it has been confirmed, however at least we are moving in the right direction, and the noise has been completely confirmed as excessive, and abnormal.

I will keep everyone posted on the fix, and whats happening

Thanks
Duro

 

Duro 1 - CreepyDealer 0 :clap:

 

congrats at least on the progess

 

Another rare and surprising story of a particular dealership doing the right thing.

 

maybe it is the chain making the noise, but i am pretty sure theres no tensioner on it. At least someone is looking into it though.

1. HLA
(Hydraulic Lash Adjuster)
2. Retainer lock
3. Retainer
4. Valve spring
5. Stem seal
6. Spring seat
7. Valve
8. Auto tensioner
9. Timing chain
10. Oil seal cap
11. Camshaft bearing cap
12. CVVT (Continuously Variable Valve Timing) assembly
13. Exhaust camshaft
14. Oil seal
15. Camshaft sprocket
16. Intake camshaft
17. Chain sprocket
18. Camshaft position sensor target wheel
19. OCV (Oil Control Valve) Filter
20. Washer
21. OCV (Oil Control Valve)

 

I was unaware of this small chain driving the intake cam. That would be quite unusual for that to have a problem and be making the noise, but hey, weird things happen all the time with cars Good luck!

 

Note #8 "Autotensioner", above.

I still believe it (the noise) to be #1 "HLA".

 

Well I didn't get a call on friday, so either their letting it sit over the weekend to ensure the noise has been repaired, or it's something else.

Either way I have the loaner car, so it doesn't matter to me how long it takes, I would prefer to drive this sonata over my accent anyway

I will keep everyone posted

Duro

 

The part only arrived at the dealership on Monday afternoon so that's why I didn't receive a call.....

Well I picked up the car today, and all seems good and the noise is gone.

I stated that I would drive it for a week as I am booked for an oil change next Thursday. At which point I will state any noises that still remain.

The hydraulic Timing Chain Tensioner was replaced and nothing else, so if the problem is fixed it is indeed the Tensioner that is causing the problem.

So just an update, I will keep you guys updated as to how it goes. Especially over the next few mornings.

Duro

 

Interesting, wonder if this is something that can be changed simply by having the valve cover off, or if you really have to take off a bunch of other parts to get to it. Hard to tell by the diagram above. Haha I posted the diagram and I somehow missed the blatantly labeled tensioner.

I would not be surprised if the noise I suspected to be HLA on my car is actually the chain making noise until the tensioner starts..umm..working. Doesn't do it when the car is warmed up though, the engine is nice and quiet then.

EDIT
browsing hmaservice, it looks like the tensioner presses down on the top of the chain, so it can be removed by simply having the valvecover removed. Probably a good idea to change it any time you are replacing a valvecover gasket?

 

Not sure what would have to come off, but yes it is just under the valve cover.

It says in HMA to remove the Tensioner before removing the cams, cam chain, and CVVT unit. So I would assume you lock the tensioner with a pin, remove the bolts and remove tensioner. Which could be done when the valve cover is removed and nothing else

I believe it is the same setup as the 2.0L beta engines

http://www.partsgeek.com/mparts/timing_chain_tensioner/hyundai.html


http://homeskills.skidome.org/mre_Photo_automotive_KIAspectra.htm

Looks like it seperates and has 2 guilds that push on the chain, or just the bottom comes out and slides in the track, thus why the pin is holding it.

Do not pull the pin out, until installed or you will have pieces everywhere and buying another one. Learned this once with an old toyota tensioner, that I was throwing out

Duro

 

Mine used to do the same thing. I changed the oil and ran a couple of tanks of premium fuel through it. I have run premium fuel through every fourth tank since and no more noises.

 

Well the noise is beginning to return as the temp is falling here in ontario, was 12C degrees overnight last night . I am due for an oil change on Thursday, we will see if this makes a difference.

Just a heads up
Duro

 

update.....

The noise has returned, and is unchanged.......

I have called the technician at the other dealership, who identified the noise, and gave him the bad news. He is going to converse with hyundai techline, and get back to me. That was 2 weeks ago.....this is there busy season, so I expect a call this week regarding there next move.

Duro