QUOTE (stratosg @ Mar 16 2009, 08:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=222762

Hi there,

I 've got a friend who owned a 2005 Trajet 2.0 16V and had a really bad accident.

The car is 3 1/2 years old with about 20.000Km on clock and still in guarantee. Last Saturday he lost control of the car due to driver's flat tire he crashed into the barriers of the hiway and then rolled over (turned upside down). At the time of the accident he was travelling about 110 or 120 Km/h (68 or 74.5 miles per hour). The front side of the car is destroyed (bumper, radiator grill, headlights, front side of the hood, both fenders). None of the four air bags didn't deploy. The local dealer say that this is normal due to the angle of the crash. Please take a look to the fotos i attach.

He was very lucky cause he suffered not even a scratch.

Now he has 2 major questions and we would be grateful if you could give us an answer.

1. Where are the air bag sensors positioned on the body of the car.
2. What is the speed (of the crash) that deployes the air bags.

Thank you in advance and sorry for my bad English.

I agree that the angle of the crash would not set the bags off. The lower crossmember does not seem to have been hit head on which is the giveaway

 

Good morning,
thank you for your fast reply, now there is one more question, does any one knows how many air bag sensors exist on the car body? The car is equipped with 4 (four) air bags. Driver's , co-driver's, driver's seat and co-driver's seat. None of them deployed.
Thank you again four your time.

 

Generally speaking. They are behind the front bumper which another member already said doesn't look too messed up. As for the side bags I think they are in the B pillar (between the front and second door). This area of the car doesn't look too messed up either.

It actually looks like the roof too most of the force.

Hope your buddy is OK.

 

Dear afob3,
thanks for your reply, but if things are the way you wrote, then there is no reason to pay for a car with air bag support since you have to be mathimatician and should have in mind to choose the right angle of impact during the time of accident.

Thank god my friend came out from the car intact, he was wearing his seatbelt.

Thanks again for your interest.

 

QUOTE (stratosg @ Mar 18 2009, 08:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=223068

Dear afob3,
thanks for your reply, but if things are the way you wrote, then there is no reason to pay for a car with air bag support since you have to be mathimatician and should have in mind to choose the right angle of impact during the time of accident.

Thank god my friend came out from the car intact, he was wearing his seatbelt.

Thanks again for your interest.

Sorry for possibly being blunt, but... If your mate got out of the car unharmed, for what (s)he would have needed the airbag support? It is the negative acceleration that sets off the airbags and seatbelt tensioners, and depending on the car the "brain" knows which bags to shoot and when.

Usually bags are not needed when you are rolling over. In head on crash the side bags do no good. Think about this imaginary situation:
You are driving along the road, make a mistake and steer slightly off-road. As you hit the gravel you make too fast a correction and end up in a slide. You hit a curb or something and roll over to the oncoming lane and stop there facing the oncoming traffic. Now the question: Would you have liked all the bags to deploy when rolling over or when the SUV hits you after the rollover? Some G forces all around when rolling over, but major negative G only when you hit (or are hit) full on.

 

Dear TA-K
my friend came out from the car intact cause he was pretty lucky. I' d like to say that i agree with your scenario. If you see the fotos carefully you 'll find out that the car stopped vertically on the hiway, that makes your scenario quite true.

The driver's seat is on the left and the way he crashed is as below:

His left (driver's) tire lost all of its air. That had as result the car went suddenly left, he tried put it back in straight again but then the car went right. He had an almost direct frontal hit on the barriers (right side of the road), the car turned clockwise and hit with the left back side the barriers and then rolled over. Totally he destroyed 20 metres of barriers and 7 barrier pillars/columns The major question is why the driver's air bag didn't deploy, since the chasis has a distortion at the front. Please remember the speed.

Once more i'd like to thank you. We don't think any post as blunt, since you/we all are an open community and you/we trying for a brainstorming to get into conclusion. My friend's question remains since the road assistance personel and his security expert told him that the air bags shoul have been deployed. I write instead of him cause he doesn't speak english.

 

Speed is nothing, it's the sudden stop that kills. That being said, in my opinion the front of the car is in pretty good shape. True, the bumper, grill and the headlights have disappeared, but the "crossbar" or whatever it is called (the black horizontal steel bar seen in pic1) seems almost intact. That gives a thought that the head-on collision has not been that severe.

I'm not an expert on these and it's difficult to say from the pics precisely how much damage the front has taken, but I believe the main front support bar is the key element here. Besides the fact that no-one got hurt.

 

Get the ECM and ABS and AirBag Computer out of the car, Get a good injury lawyer - only because he will likely know who has the necassary equipment to read all these componants and reverse engineer the crash then be able to tell if the airbags should have went off. All that data is stored between those three componants.

 

QUOTE (RdHawg @ May 5 2009, 06:20 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=234042

Get the ECM and ABS and AirBag Computer out of the car, Get a good injury lawyer - only because he will likely know who has the necassary equipment to read all these componants and reverse engineer the crash then be able to tell if the airbags should have went off. All that data is stored between those three componants.

Thank you for your advice. That's exactly what my friend intends to do. But there is a major problem. His insurance lawyer does not support him. I don't know if it's possible to write a letter to the manufacturer and ask for a check out. We will inform you. Thanks again for your interest.

 

I'm confused why he feels that legal action is necessary:

QUOTE (stratosg @ Mar 16 2009, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=222762

He was very lucky cause he suffered not even a scratch.

 

So, you think that he should be dead or heavily injured ? He thinks that he was deceived by the dealer, car, company. They promised safety, he paid four airbags, none deployed. Also no one told him that he should have an accident under certain speed, angle etc.

By the way both radiators engine's and aircondition's are broken. The cost of spare parts required is about 11.550 euros. Labor and paintings not included. About 3.500 euros.

Let's put our selves into his shoes, just for a while.

Thank you again for your replies.

 

I questioned your motivation for taking legal action, I did not suggest your friend should have been killed or injured, please don't make that interpretation. I'm not sure what you expect to gain from this.


You seem to misunderstand that airbag are designed to deploy in certain impacts only. The airbag going off may cause burns and bruising, but this is preferable to your head hitting something hard.

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=airbag...oto&as_st=y

From what you have described, it doesn't sound like his head did hit anything - yes he is fortunate, but deceived?

Why do you think he has been deceived? What evidence do you have that this impact required the use of the airbags? Is the security guy or the roadside recovery person qualified to make that judgement? These are the sorts of questions that will be asked by lawyers. If you have these answers then maybe we can have a sensible discussion.

The cost of repairs is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

Dear andycarter, it's not my motivation it's his. Now he believes that he is deceived, and at that point i personally believe he is right, because no one, never told him, or us in general, that the air bags should deploy under certain conditions. If there are certain conditions i don't want to pay for something that it will work or not. Who knows. Is anybody told by a car dealer or company that the air bags works this way? I think not.

Please take a look here.

Now the crash expert from the insurance company declares in his report that the frontal air bags should have been deployed. The policemen told him exactly the same and the road assistance guy too.

He claims nothing from the manufacturer. He only wants to know if everything worked as they should. This is possible only with a legal representative, so both parts are certified that no one will try to take advantage in order to gain something under the table.

I'd like to thank you for your replies. I believe that the brainstorming will help us.

 

In UK the airbags would be standard equipment in this vehicle, what is the situation in Greece?

I understand that several experienced people have given their opinions that the airbags should have deployed, but this is a complex situation and I don't know if opinion is sufficient.

I think that if all the parts are present, then they should be able to be be tested to establish if they are within specification and correctly fitted.

To know if the dynamics of the specific accident justified the use of airbags would probably require measurements and calculations to be made and compared with the design specifications and crash test results.

A lawyer ought to be able to obtain the manufacturer's records by court order.

 

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In UK the airbags would be standard equipment in this vehicle, what is the situation in Greece?

The frontal air bags are standard but the side are extras.

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I understand that several experienced people have given their opinions that the airbags should have deployed, but this is a complex situation and I don't know if opinion is sufficient.

I agree with you. Though there are accidents with less damages where air bags deployed.

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I think that if all the parts are present, then they should be able to be be tested to establish if they are within specification and correctly fitted.

Everything is just there.

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To know if the dynamics of the specific accident justified the use of airbags would probably require measurements and calculations to be made and compared with the design specifications and crash test results.

That's exactly what my friend is asking for. He is disturbed by the answer of the dealership who performed no test, and told him that the accident does not justify air bag opening and that's the reason my friend wants the main dealer, or even the manufacturer to perform the test, not the local one, thats why he needs a lawyer, and believe me he has no intention to accuse or discrediting the manufacturer. He only wants to be assured that everything worked perfect in his car. He had another smaller car, a '96 accent. He is a great fun of the company.


QUOTE

A lawyer ought to be able to obtain the manufacturer's records by court order.

That's why he needs a lawyer. But the incurance's lawyer does not support him. They refuse to ask from the company to perform a check. There is no opponent they say, no victims, etc.

Thank you again.