Smartstream??? No thanks.

Should've stuck with the tried and true tested Theta-II 🤣😆😂

 

No, we have to progress else we would still be cavemen. We learn from mistakes.

 

If you search for it , i guess you can find problems with all brands.

Even Toyota can have problems !

Toyota and Lexus Recall Cars to Replace Engines

Consumer Reports shares details of the Toyota and Lexus recall. Certain 2019 and 2020 RAV4 SUVs, Camry and Avalon sedans, and Lexus ES sedans are being recalled because the engine block can crack.

www.consumerreports.org

The Details
Vehicles Recalled
• 2020 Toyota Camry sedans manufactured from Sept. 12, 2019 through Jan. 15, 2020
• 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid sedans manufactured from Sept. 16, 2019 through Dec. 19, 2019
• 2019 and 2020 Toyota RAV4 SUVs manufactured from Sept. 12, 2019 through Nov. 20, 2019
• 2019 and 2020 Toyota RAV4 SUVs manufactured from Sept. 12, 2019 through Nov. 20, 2019
• 2019 and 2020 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid SUVs manufactured from Sept. 12, 2019 through Dec. 10, 2019
• 2020 Lexus ES300h sedans manufactured from Sept. 16, 2019 through Dec. 18, 2019
• 2020 Toyota Avalon Hybrid sedans manufactured from Sept. 16, 2019 through Dec. 13, 2019
The problem: Due to a manufacturing issue, the engine block may be cracked. As a result, the vehicles may overheat, stall, or catch fire.
The fix: Dealers will check the serial number on the engine block to determine if it is part of a faulty batch. If it is, dealers will replace the engine free of charge.

 

But, i would not buy it for long term until reliability is proven, so i lease it.

 

Someone doesn't understand sarcasm.... probably not smarter than a caveman. And, we don't know if smartstream is progress or just a theta-iii with better nomenclature marketing

But, with the Toyota, they are replacing the engines before failure, after several reported failures. With my Theta-ii, it would have to fail 1st for replacement and Hyundai won't admit to the 'real' problem with the design.

Leasing is a waste of money. Prefer to own. Maintain it well and don't worry about it. Exercise the warranty if needed.

 

Just registered to respond to this thread. I have been doing some research on this vehicle since I like blind spot monitor. Still don’t understand why Honda removed this feature. Also this car fits all my needs and is within my budget. However, After some research it looks like that Hyundai already recalled 2.5smart engine in South Korea since there are so many problems with it. Genesis sorento and Santa Fe are all affected. I might get a Toyota instead or if I decided to go with Santa Fe, I will add extended warranty.

 

I haven't seen any recalls on the new engine. Please cite your sources.

 

I've been doing a lot of research on my upcoming purchase of the Santa Fe Calligraphy with the 2.5L Turbo. I came across this video which is in Korean but you can get English subtitles:

Reddit Post about the SmartStream 2.5L Faults

He is the same engineer that found the Theta II problems as well. I'm wondering if I should go forward with my purchase.

Has any 2.5L owners over 10,000KM noticed power being sapped from the system? It's a sign that the injectors, heads, and pistons are being carbonized.

Let me know your thoughts.

1) Carbon build up in intake will be difficult because the new 2.5 turbo is a dual injector engine, port and direct.
2) New API SP ILSAC GF6A oil have much lower volitility. Previous oils can lose over 10% by volume in the 250C 1 hour test. The new oils API SP/ILSAC GF6A do not volitize. This test is to mimic heat at piston top and rings. Read PQIA-Petroleum Quality Institute of American test results, www.PQIA.org.
3). Lead-Footed drivers who install “Catch-Can” in PVC line, are reporting much lower oil vapor getting trapped in catch-can when they use the API SP/ILSAC GF6A oils for 90 days and two oil changes. Game Changer!

Carbon build-up, timing chain wear, LSPI - Low Speed Pre-Ignition (detonation), cold weather startup and wear, gasket/seal wear, etc... might become insignificant with the new API SP/ILSAC GF6A full synthetic oil.

The motor oil manufacturers have until April 2021 to pass the 7 new tests or get decertified. Please read the oil labels. The old oils are still on store shielves. The full API SP / ILSAC GF6A specification was only released Dec. 2020.

Please avoid Dollar Store oil and X-press lube. These outfits have failed even the older oil specifications, year after years. These oil outfits are known to cause damage to modern engines. Visit www.PQIA.org.

www.API.org
www.PQIA.org
www.ILSAC.org

 

1) Carbon build up in intake will be difficult because the new 2.5 turbo is a dual injector engine, port and direct.
2) New API SP ILSAC GF6A oil have much lower volitility. Previous oils can lose over 10% by volume in the 250C 1 hour test. The new oils API SP/ILSAC GF6A do not volitize. This test is to mimic heat near piston top and rings. Read PQIA-Petroleum Quality Institute of American test results, www.PQIA.org.
3). Lead-Footed drivers who install “Catch-Can” in PVC line, are reporting much lower oil vapor getting trapped in catch-can when they use the API SP/ILSAC GF6A oils for 90 days and two oil changes. Game Changer!

Carbon build-up, timing chain wear, LSPI - Low Speed Pre-Ignition (detonation), cold weather startup and wear, gasket/seal wear, etc... might become insignificant with the new API SP/ILSAC GF6A full synthetic oil.

The motor oil manufacturers have until April 2021 to pass the 7 new tests or get decertified. Please read the oil labels. The old oils are still on store shielves. The full API SP / ILSAC GF6A specification was only released Dec. 2020.

Please avoid Dollar Store oil and X-press lube. These outfits have failed even the older oil specifications, year after years. These oil outfits are known to cause damage to modern engines. Visit www.PQIA.org.

www.API.org
www.PQIA.org
www.ILSAC.org

Good advice about the cheap oils......stay away.

 

Are you guys suggesting that the main potential issue with the 2.5T SmartStream engine can be solved by changing oil more often?

I never did oil changes more often than every 3000 miles (or 6 months), but assuming this car uses regular oil, changing every 2000 miles is probably manageable.

 

Are you guys suggesting that the main potential issue with the 2.5T SmartStream engine can be solved by changing oil more often?

I never did oil changes more often than every 3000 miles (or 6 months), but assuming this car uses regular oil, changing every 2000 miles is probably manageable.

Not just oil change, but use the newest API SP / ILSAC GF6A or ILSAC GF6B oil. Stop using API SN, SL or ILSAC GF5 or GF4 oils.

The older oils can boil off 9% to 14% of the volume when heated to 250C fro 1 hrs in testing. Results can be found at www.PQIA.org. This oil vapor gets sucked into the PVC and deposit into the intake manifold. The new oils are practically undetectable volitility loss during this test.

The new oil address carbon build up and sludge, increase timing chain life, eliminate LSPI-low speed pre-ignition. -30c cold start, better gas mileage, etc.. They have to run hundreds of hours of engine test to get approval. The API SP ILSAC GF6A N GF6B oils have much lower volatility, the oil does not boil off vapor as much as last gen oils. (Example Mobil 1 tested by PQIA boiled-off 9% of the oil in 250c 1 hr test. Www.PQIA.org)

The API SP ILSAC GF6A n GF6B oils are game changers.

People who use API SP oils report less oil in POV catch-can between two oil changes 8k-10k miles.

Oil companies are required to pass the 7 new oil tests by April 2021 or get decertified by API.

Not only oil change, but quickly switch to the new qualified API SP / ILSAC GF6A or ILSAC GF6B oils.

 

Using the proper viscosity as per onwer manual, any oil with the api approval will not screw up the engine! This includes those from dollars stores, assuming they are not fake. The condition is for normal driving and within the expected life of the engine. If paying a few bucks extra to get the greatest, do it. New oil spec doesn't mean the old spec is nfg!

 

My 2 cents.
Honda knew they had a problem and said it was fixed.
Traded a 2019 Honda with a 1.5 liter turbo due to oil dilution. Car had lees than 10 K miles on it and I did 5 oil and filter changes. Oil would be black by 700 miles. Used Castrol Edge and Wix filters. I was getting over 5% oil dilution at 3 k miles.
We live in the mountains with colder weather and do some short trips. Worst conditions for a turbo IMO.
More frequent oil changes is what I would do.
Our 19 SF is the non turbo 2.4 L. Oil is still clean at 1200 miles and oil level has not risen.

 

Found a new video,

.

The guys in it says Hyundai has silently revised 2.5L NA engine pistons to have 2x oil drain holes. He suggests lack of drain holes before could be the root cause of the burned oil. I.e. Less drained oil means that more oil was left over in the combustion chamber and burned together with gas. The video is in Korean but has English subtitle.

 

One more video from the same guy:

Turned out a Hyundai executive briefly mentioned the new drain holes during a Korea parliament hearing last year. In a way nobody could not connect the dots until now :-( He also said they switched to the new pistons since May 2020. So hopefully US models won’t be affected.

 

Hello all,

After watching all of these videos and reading the thread I wanted to add a note. First off, this is my first Hyundai (2021 Santa Fe Limited) and my 2018 Civic before this had tons of topics about oil loss or dilution so I decided to install a catch can for my new Hyundai GDI just in case there is blow-by. After watching tons of videos on the 2020 Santa Fe Turbo catch can install I found there was a change to the PCV system (I realize this is a different engine but figured I could find the correct hoses myself by researching the old model). I had to go into the dealership to ask where the catch can should be installed for the pcv system but was surprised to find out from the head technician that the new model doesn't circulate like a normal pcv system but rather has a valve/cap that vents the pressure from the crankcase to atmosphere (the engine bay).

I am no engineer or great with mechanics but as an IT professional my logic tells me that this would resolve the valve carbon build up as the oil is not reintroduced to the intake manifold to be re burned. My only worry, again not knowing engine mechanics, is that any blow-by will still accumulate within the crankcase (unless this is connected to the oil system and will be flushed out by a standard oil change).

I found my pcv cap to be clean and no oil mist seems to have come out at this point. I also checked the hose closest to the turbo (originally assuming this was for WOT crankcase ventilation) but also found no trace of oil.

I only have 5k miles and did my own oil change at 4k miles. I didn't get a sample to send to Blackstone on my first change but plan on sending it in to look for signs of dilution or anything else that may be an issue for this engine on my 7.5k change through the dealer (assuming they will let me into the garage to take the sample).

Hope this info is helpful. I love my Santa Fe and know Hyundai has a great warranty so I am not too worried. Just wanted to extend the life of this engine as long as possible with a catch can and came across these changes.

Please feel free to provide me with any information you may have about the new pcv system. Hoping the recent posts about the NA piston fix will help as well.

Thanks!
Justin

 

Hello all,

After watching all of these videos and reading the thread I wanted to add a note. First off, this is my first Hyundai (2021 Santa Fe Limited) and my 2018 Civic before this had tons of topics about oil loss or dilution so I decided to install a catch can for my new Hyundai GDI just in case there is blow-by. After watching tons of videos on the 2020 Santa Fe Turbo catch can install I found there was a change to the PCV system (I realize this is a different engine but figured I could find the correct hoses myself by researching the old model). I had to go into the dealership to ask where the catch can should be installed for the pcv system but was surprised to find out from the head technician that the new model doesn't circulate like a normal pcv system but rather has a valve/cap that vents the pressure from the crankcase to atmosphere (the engine bay).

I am no engineer or great with mechanics but as an IT professional my logic tells me that this would resolve the valve carbon build up as the oil is not reintroduced to the intake manifold to be re burned. My only worry, again not knowing engine mechanics, is that any blow-by will still accumulate within the crankcase (unless this is connected to the oil system and will be flushed out by a standard oil change).

I found my pcv cap to be clean and no oil mist seems to have come out at this point. I also checked the hose closest to the turbo (originally assuming this was for WOT crankcase ventilation) but also found no trace of oil.

I only have 5k miles and did my own oil change at 4k miles. I didn't get a sample to send to Blackstone on my first change but plan on sending it in to look for signs of dilution or anything else that may be an issue for this engine on my 7.5k change through the dealer (assuming they will let me into the garage to take the sample).

Hope this info is helpful. I love my Santa Fe and know Hyundai has a great warranty so I am not too worried. Just wanted to extend the life of this engine as long as possible with a catch can and came across these changes.

Please feel free to provide me with any information you may have about the new pcv system. Hoping the recent posts about the NA piston fix will help as well.

Thanks!
Justin

Just for your information. On the last two oil changes I have had done at my dealer. I simply gave them a glass jar with a mark on it. And I asked them to fill it with the old oil out of my car when they did the oil change. No problem at all. They asked what I wanted that for or if I had a problem. I told them...no problem and that I was going to get an oil analysis done. They did it without any more questions....and the service rep was even interested in seeing the results when I get them.

 

So far my technicians have been super helpful so I'm assuming I will get the same treatment.

 

I'm getting mixed signals from this thread. Some are suggesting only the 2.5L engine is an issue, while others are suggesting that perhaps even the little 1.6L Turbos on things like the Kia Niro would be affected. Do we actually know?

 

I would completely ignore those post and enjoy my vehicle.

I have a 2020 Santa FE SEL 2.4l and when I first visited this site and read some of the post you wouldn't have known whether to just drive the vehicle over the cliff, blow it up or some other dramatic act.

There wasn't a single thing wrong with the engine - the vehicle is wonderful and averages close to 30mpg on the road and is perfectly reliable.

My opinion on 'what should I do' is - nothing.

Enjoy your wonderful vehicle whichever engine you have.

I you don't own one of these wonderful vehicles yet and are anguishing over an engine you don't even own then simply don't buy one.

I also own a 2019 KIA NIRO PHEV with the 1.6l engine. Simply an outstanding engine. Our NIRO averages 50mpg on gas, it will also go almost 30 miles on electric when the battery is charged up. With a full tank of gas and a full charge it has a 600-mile range.
After 3 years and close to 40,000 miles-problems with engine = 0/none. The NIRO and its engine are outstandingly reliable and economical.

 

You are resurrecting an almost one year old thread. And the fact that no one has posted a thing in a year would imply that, No, there are no real issues identified with the 2.5T. In fact, I have yet to see a post in the past year with a 2.5T that has gone TU.

My '21 2.5T (May build) has performed flawlessly and had not used a drop of oil with the level still at the same mark.

So, do we actually know. How could anyone actually know. All I actually know is no one has reported an issue in the past year with the SmartStream Theta III engine.

 

You are resurrecting an almost one year old thread. And the fact that no one has posted a thing in a year would imply that, No, there are no real issues identified with the 2.5T. In fact, I have yet to see a post in the past year with a 2.5T that has gone TU.

My '21 2.5T (May build) has performed flawlessly and had not used a drop of oil with the level still at the same mark.

So, do we actually know. How could anyone actually know. All I actually know is no one has reported an issue in the past year with the SmartStream Theta III engine.

You literally just replied to a new (different) thread on a similar topic, so you know someone posted about it. I thought it prudent to ask here since this had a lot of people wound up that might have insight a year later. I apologize if it's considered bad etiquette.

 

Newbie here, been reading all I can about the 2.5 (non turbo) engine since my daughters 2022 Tuscon at 5500 miles new is burning 1qt+ every 1000 miles. History of problem so far. At around 3500 miles vehicle went into limp mode ,daughter called and lucky she was down the street of the dealer, they checked the oil stick and told her maybe it was low from the factory (BS) They topped it off and said come back in 1000 miles. Came back and again it’s a quart low so they started the TSB documentation procedure for possible engine excessive oil usage. Just documented the 3rd 1000 miles burning 1 quart+ and awaiting Hyundai tomorrow to issue engine replacement or possible start procedure for lemon law and dump it.

 

It's a roll of the dice if you have oil problems. People come here and to other forums to complain. Lots of motors doing fine IMO.
GM has a lifter failure problem that has been on going, nothing is perfect.
I agree with changing the oil more. I do 3K- 3.5K OCI's. Severe duty schedule is 3750.
I wouldn't shy away form Hyundai they are in the same boat as the rest of the manufacturer's.

 

Hyundai confirmed finding and will replace the engine, not sure if we are going that route or trying for a buy back. This is the second engine replacement in our family, first one was a Kia Sorento 2012. My other daughters 2019 Tucson was a lemon with the CVT crap tranny with multiple other issues. Think this family is done with value driven purchases of KOREAN vehicles. And yes, this is a Vent.

 

" My other daughters 2019 Tucson was a lemon with the CVT crap tranny with multiple other issues. "
The 2019 does not come with a CVT tranny
I have owned 11 Hyundai products since 2004 and never had a problem with them. Many friends have owned Korean products and have had great results with them.
They have one of the best warranties in the car industry

 

Good Luck Metro.

 

Looks like Smartstream 2.5L engines just have faulty design and Hyundai knows it but keeps quiet. This will be another massive lawsuit recall for Smartstream 2.5 engines in several years when this issue will finally be known and widespread. Thousands of poor naïve folks buying and financing new Hyundai and Kia are for a big headache and surprise. Those engines sales have to be stopped immediately, but of course no one will do it. Here we go again.

What should we do to get the ball rolling,just financed a 2023 Santa Fe with the 2.5G SmartTechology engine and it has 4,562 miles and has used almost over a qt. Of oil🤔🤔🤔

 

Run a 40wt. No issues on mine yet. Will run uoa's to check viscosity and go up if needed.

 

1xsolara
I have owned 11 Hyundai products since 2004 and never had a problem with them. Many friends have owned Korean products and have had great results with them.

Proof they don't make all bad ones, it's a roll of the dice if your vehicle has problems of any kind.
Same with all vehicle manufacturers.
I think you roll the dice every time you buy anything.

FYI
I bought our 19 SF Ultimate used with 22K miles. It had 9-10K mile oil changes done by the dealer according to CarFax. I started doing 3K mile oil changes using Castrol Edge. It would use 4-8 ounces in 3K miles.
Switched to Amsoil OE series oil and it isn't using any oil doing 4K mile changes. Lucky?

 

I've been doing a lot of research on my upcoming purchase of the Santa Fe Calligraphy with the 2.5L Turbo. I came across this video which is in Korean but you can get English subtitles:

Reddit Post about the SmartStream 2.5L Faults

He is the same engineer that found the Theta II problems as well. I'm wondering if I should go forward with my purchase.

Has any 2.5L owners over 10,000KM noticed power being sapped from the system? It's a sign that the injectors, heads, and pistons are being carbonized.

Let me know your thoughts.

2022 SF Calligraphy, 2.5L Turbo, GDI/MPI, engine normally operates in GDI mode for fuel economy, but when there is no load on the engine, the MPI mode kicks in to send fuel through the intake manifold to remove the carbon deposits on the intake valves/manifold. Regardless of manufacturer, all GDI engines have carbon deposits on the intake valves/manifold, down the road, because there in no gas detergents going past them to clean off the carbon deposits. Carbon deposits in the intake manifold/valves comes from the crankcase ventilation system through the PCV valve to the intake manifold. If you are using the cheapest gas you can buy, it may not have the detergents in it to keep your injectors clean during normal operation. Maybe you need to put some injector cleaner in your tank before you fill up next time. be sure to put the cleaner in your tank before you fill up so that you get an even mixture in the tank.
I have not seen the video you mention, but the 2.5L engine in the video, probably, only had GDI no MPI.
I have almost 13,000 miles on my Turbo engine and have had no problems what so ever.
Good luck, if you decide to purchase.

 

What should you do if you have a Hyundai 2.4l engine in your 2020 Santa Fe SEL and it has run perfectly and gets around 30mpg?

 

Keep oil changed, drive it (dont baby it)

 

We have 3 Hyundai's that were on engine recall. After dealer mechanic borescope inspection and knock sensor upgrades, our cars received 150Kmile and 15 yrs engine warranty extensions. The 2010 Santa Fe and Tucson have both exceeded the extended 150Kmile warranties and the Sonata Hybrid with 120K was traded in for 2023 Elantra Hybrid. All the cars get over 30 mpg at 60 mph. The Sonata Hybrid ave. over 40 mpg and Elantra hybrid ave. over 55mpg.

Change oil (3K-5K), transmission atf (30K-50K), radiator fluids (20K-40K), gas cap (20k), pcv (20k), radiator caps (20k), brake flush (20K-30K), belts (50K-75K), brake pads (50k-60k), etc...

All other car makers only offer 3 yrs and 36k mile. They do not report failures after warranty, but NTHSA gov track their recalls.

 

If Hyundai was concerned about their engines they would not offer a 10-year 100,000 mile warranty.

 

I fixed it for you.
If Hyundai was NOT concerned about their engines they would not offer a 10-year 100,000 mile warranty.