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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I need to badly replace some worn out tires on my 2004 Hyundai Accent. It looks like I'm going to acquire a set of BMW e30 14" wheels from a 1989 325i with (lightly used) tires that will match up to the stock 13's overall diameter on my 2004 Hyundai Accent. The only problem I foresee is the BMW Hub Center Bore is 57.1mm while the original bore on the Accent is 67.1mm so it may not clear the castlenut on the front hub . Both wheels use 4x100 bolt patterns.

As I see it, my options are:
1 - it won't be a problem


however, if it doesn't fit then what?

2 - use a spacer/adapter to push the wheel out to clear the castle nut (how safe is this?)

3 - have a machine shop bore out the hub

4 - trade them into a used tire/wheel shop for custom wheels or steelies that do fit properly



any thoughts?
 

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I'm for boring it. Go out and actually measure the nut overall diam. You may not have to remove as much metal as you thought.

Earlier, you asked about speedo gearing (NLA if you get the 325i wheels). This shop doesn't offer any gears for Hyundai (Detroit iron only) but it is a wealth of info.

Speedometer Gear, Speedometer Gears, Ford, GM, Dodge 700R4

Your '04 has a cable drive off the tranny gear but that is promptly turned into 4 electronic pulses per rev of the cable; an electronic pulse converter becomes one option.

But back to your wheels- let us know if it works out.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm for boring it. Go out and actually measure the nut overall diam. You may not have to remove as much metal as you thought.

Earlier, you asked about speedo gearing (NLA if you get the 325i wheels). This shop doesn't offer any gears for Hyundai (Detroit iron only) but it is a wealth of info.

Speedometer Gear, Speedometer Gears, Ford, GM, Dodge 700R4

Your '04 has a cable drive off the tranny gear but that is promptly turned into 4 electronic pulses per rev of the cable; an electronic pulse converter becomes one option.

But back to your wheels- let us know if it works out.

Jim

electronic pulse converter?.....lemme guess, this will probably apply to ANY vehicle manufactured nowadays since they're all pretty much 100% digital trip/odometer. may not be worth the effort of re-gearing the speedo then.

yeah, I'd rather the wheels be correctly sized, makes life easier. wasn't sure how safe boring out the hub would be.
inspecting/test-mounting wheels tomorrow, will let you know how it turns out.

thanks for the link and info,
tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm for boring it. Go out and actually measure the nut overall diam. You may not have to remove as much metal as you thought.


But back to your wheels- let us know if it works out.

Jim
well, take a guess and see which option I went with. you got a 25% chance of being right :D

....give up?.....

option #1 it is!

they do fit. I replaced front right tire, torqued up, dropped it to the ground and started checking. in fact, I thought there was excessive slop in the hub center bore compared to the original steelie. had to wiggle a couple of times just to be certain all was snug. it easily cleared the raised rim on the front hub.

Also found out that BMWs use a bolt, not a nut, so I was concerned about how much clearance my socket would have for tightening down the nut in the lug hole. Turned out, plenty of room!

I turned it lock to lock and compared clearances front, top, and back of each tire around the circumference. I had 175/70-13, now have 185/65-14. (seller posted 165/65-14). so speedo 70mph=72.54mph.

I will be gaining .4" in width (good for traction) and 0.8" in height. I think the biggest clearance loss is on the space between top of tire and McPherson strut coil bottom-mount pad (smaller loss between fender liner and inside of each tire). I went from 2-1/2 fingers width to about 1-1/2 fingers. I'll be keeping an eye on that to make sure no damage occurs while driving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
can u show us some pics of your car with the new tire rim combo im just interested
just bolted the fronts on tonite and ran around the block to be sure all was tight. going to check the ride during the week and post an update near the end. will take some pics when I get a chance and post those also.
also need to get an alignment since I managed to slide into a cloverleaf highway on-ramp curb at 20mph during a light drizzle, just enough to make it slick by raising oil off the road but not wash it away.

there is going to be a 3.500% error in speed and distance, so I will be needing to keep accurate records of mileage to convert the error rate and see if MPG is still holding true. it will be interesting to see how much the RPMs will drop at speed, even allowing for the 3.5% error rate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ok, I've been running around with the new wheels on the front for the last week and can make a report. I've had 3 different sets of tires on this car since I bought it used in mid-2008, with the same size of 175/70-13 each time. The first set were Kumhos used in mixed city/highway driving. The second set were Falken Sincera and 90% used for highway commuting for the job I had 103 miles each way. The last set were some slightly used Futura 2000 I got from Craigslist for cheap and 80% used in city driving. So I've got a history of how this car behaves with tires. Putting this latest set on has noticeably changed the way the car rides and handles.

I bought the tires (Kumho Solus HP4 Plus) already mounted on the BMW wheels and they have extremely low mileage. 3 tires have 185/65-14 and one has 195/65-14. I started by putting the smaller on the front and for the last week have not had a single problem during my daily commute (which is on 2- and 4-lane twisty hill country roads, averaging 35 and hitting one twisty up hill stretch at 45-55mph for 1-1/2 to 2 miles). At the end of the week, I finally got an alignment (badly needed) and then mounted the 2 others on the rear yesterday. Conditions for the last week have been dry and wet.

Overall, I am pleased with the improvement and have no regrets. There are some pros and cons but overall, I'd do it again.

The car definitely felt "grippier" in the first week and there didn't seem to be as much body lean when going around curves at 50mph from the tires deforming due to higher sidewalls. I didn't want to push it not being used to the tire/wheel combo but it was my gut feeling that it would hold pretty tight. Once or twice the rear did slide a little on some tight curves at low speed on old slick asphalt when it was damp, but I expected that to some extent since I still had 13's on the rear. Once I mounted and drove with the 14's on the rear, it definitely felt grippier with less body lean and I wasn't hearing any tire noise when hitting a curve a little too fast.

However, I noticed that when going over speed bumps at ~30mph I was ok, but when I hit a small dip in the road at 30-40mph, the larger rear tire (195/65-14) would rub. The clearance on the tire is there as you can see from the attached pics, on the front and backsides and the circumference, but it did rub on the dips. The one other thing I noticed was that it seems to have a "cushier" ride now. I don't get that jarring/thumping bump after going over a speed bump anymore.

..........................Sidewall........Section......Overall
...........................Height............Width....... Diameter
======================================
175/70-13...........4.82...............6.89...........22.65
185/65-14............4.73..............7.28...........23.47 (shorter sidewall, but taller tire, .8")
195/65-14............4.99..............7.68............23.98 (same sidewall, but much taller tire, 1.3")

Conclusion? I wouldn't go any larger on the overall diameter by more than 1". In fact, I'd stick as close as possible to the original diameter while widening the tire. I think 185/60-14 would be ideal for 14" wheels while a 195/65-13 would be good for 13" wheels, if you can get those sizes.

The last thing I noticed was that my engine RPMs appear to have dropped from 3100(+-50) @70mph to about 2800(+-50) @70mph. And that's correcting for the 2.3mph difference caused by tire size. However, while the RPMs have dropped I have also noticed that the engine takes longer to downshift at the "normal" speeds it usually does and it seems to take longer to get it "up to speed". Not a very scientific observation, I know, and hard to quantify, but nevertheless, the acceleration seemed a bit slower.

Hope this helps anyone looking for more info! Any questions I will try and answer!
 

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so did your gas mileage increase on highway and decrease on the city? also the rims look nice, i thought about upgrading my rims to 14s maybe 15s with this size tire 185/65r 14 or 195/50r 15. is your overall comfort the same as before or is it better?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
so did your gas mileage increase on highway and decrease on the city? also the rims look nice, i thought about upgrading my rims to 14s maybe 15s with this size tire 185/65r 14 or 195/50r 15. is your overall comfort the same as before or is it better?
MPG? not sure yet since I usually average 1 tank about every 10 days. I drove an existing half tank thru last week and then filled up again on Thursday. I'm trying to keep my driving habits the same right now so I can do an honest comparison. Calculating corrected MPG may take another month.

I would say the overall ride comfort is better, but I primarily did it for the traction. I started pushing it when I thought I could safely do so on the drive home today, and did get it to slip a few times, but overall the traction & handling is much better than they were. the Accent is a small light-weight vehicle and there's only so much you can do to improve traction before you start killing other benefits, like say......gas mileage?

tire size? 185/65-14 would be as large as you want to go, but I see no advantage in that. I'd get 185/60-14 which will stiffen up the sidewall even more, and is shorter than the stock 175/70-13 by 1/2". This also keeps your speedo/odo accurate.

with a 195/50-15, your overall diameter is practically the same (65mph vs 65.09mph!), but you get a shorter stiffer sidewall (1") while your tire width increases by 3/4". the only thing that matters now is what the rotating mass will do to your acceleration. just remember, you give up sidewall height you give up ride comfort.

also, I didn't weigh them, but I would swear I felt no difference in weight while lifting and mounting the tires/wheels on.

the picture below is the 195/65-14. as you can see, it fits and clears the components but I have found that the tire rubs on dips in the road. this is why I say don't do it. the Accent is not a performance vehicle, never will be a performance vehicle, and I see no point in putting expensive specialized components on just to make sure the tires don't rub.
 

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thx for all the info. just one more thing, the tire that rubs is the tire that is different in size and the one that is a little bigger right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thx for all the info. just one more thing, the tire that rubs is the tire that is different in size and the one that is a little bigger right?
correct

to recapitulate, original tires are 175/70-13, replacements I purchased are 185/65-14. with this combo, I am losing .1" sidewall height, which is about 2.28 millimeters ; literally nothing to worry about. however, my speedo and odo will be off by about 2.5mph at 65mph, roughly 3.5%.

If I was to go to a more correct tire of 185/60-14, I would lose .45" in sidewall height, which translates to a not-as-cushy ride, but now my speedo is only off by 0.25mph.

as a final note, since driving for the last week with the 185/65-14 combo, I can definitely tell a difference in low-end acceleration. it feels a bit more sluggish up to about 20mph and then it's fine.
and as near as I can determine, I am now running about 300rpm less at 70mph (~2800+-50 versus ~3100+-50)
I've gassed up Full one time so far, and a couple gallons the next time. my City mpg appears to have gone from 28 to about 25. but I'm still trying to average it out over the next month, and I do have a short highway trip coming up that will help me calculate Highway mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
one year later.........

overall, not bad. gas mileage appears to have averaged out at around 25-26.5 mpg.

I definitely have better traction in curves at speed but because this car is so light I wouldn't take care those curves any faster when it gets wet even with the wider tire.

the sluggish acceleration remains an issue, and I'm convinced it's because of the tire/wheel combination rotational mass (14" vs 13"). to get past the sluggishness you have to get it moving by revving the engine to about 3100 which is peak torque point. there's just no other way around that (NOx and turbo's don't count). use normal acceleration methods and people will think you're a grandma, accelerating real slow.

as for the 1 large tire size, I finally managed to get it replaced and that resolved the rubbing issue. due to tight clearance on the back side of the tire/wheel, I wouldn't even goto different backspacing and lower profile. it's just not worth the hassle of trying to fit anything larger in there for a car that is not even engineered to be upgradeable.
 
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