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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi There,

I am new to this forum. I recently purchase 2013 sonata hybrid, i ran into this issue that scared me. I took it to the dealer but they couldn't diagnose the problem. I was wondering if anyone else ran into this issue.

Story time:
1st time. went to my car. (I "front in" park). So i'm doing my usual routine of wanting to reverse my car out of the parking spot to go home. Hand brake released, i put the car to R but the car won't move but the electric motor is reving and it kept going faster and the car started to shake a bit so i began to panick, so i put the car back to park and i hear a "BOOM" (sounded like an explosion of some sort). I turn off the car. I turn it back on, and the cars working normally. I go to the dealer and they scanned my car, nothing is wrong, they recommended me to put N instead of P.

2nd time ( 2 week- 3 weeks after the first occurrence) went to my car. Doing the usual. Same thing happened. I put the car to R but the car won't reverse and the electric motor is reving but unlike the first time, i reacted much quicker, i put the gearbox at N and then "BOOM". I turn off the car. Now i turn the car back on, and want to reverse and my EV mode keeps going on and off on and off and something is happening under the hood but i'm not sure, my guess is its trying to engage to ev mode but it can't. So i figured, maybe i should release the brake pedal and the car seems like it wants to zoom off instead of the gradual and smooth reversing out of the parking spot. So again, i go back to P and turn off the car. I wait it out a little and turn it back on and its moving normally. I go to dealer and they said they are not sure what it is because they can't see it themselves.

So i decide to go another dealer 2 days after and they spend almost 2.5hrs on my car to tell me they don't know what the problem is, they think its the transmission but they aren't 100% sure so they don't want to replace it unless they are for sure. They also said i should drive it until it happens more regularly and possibly hope the check engine light will come on to direct them somewhere.

Anyone had a similar situation? I don't feel at ease driving the car knowing this problem hasn't been fixed. Also, its time consuming to keep going back to the dealer when the issue can't be repeated so i end up sitting around for nothing. I wish this problem will be solved soon, i don't know what to expect. I love the ride, its bit great besides very minor issues, such as clicking noises and the avg fuel economy never accurate. The next time it happens, i'm thinking of turning the car off right away. I'm not sure what else to do.
 

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What some members who have repeatable problems is to video tape the incident and put on YouTube to show the service rep. Your problem is something I haven't seen before.
 

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Neighbor and I would just up and call FSE.. might call assist for case number first, but sounds like you into a trans..

Search around here for Car Tech Dude.. messgae him with concerns and dealer lack of ability.. dont know what pull if any he have with Canada, but Hybrid same here or there in operation.

Did they do complete fault code search of all the modules looking for DTC that might point to something ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
its hard to video tape it as its just noise they would only hear. I have a different problem which i recorded an audio and they don't know what the problem is, that one is smaller issue. They still want to hear it themselves. They want to physically see it happen.

what is FSE. I will try to find the car tech dude and see what his thoughts are, if i can find him that is. I will direct him here and hope he has an answer.

Yes, they did some error checks and said the computer came back with no problems. They said, they don't want to make the move and just replace the transmission even though they think it is as it isn't cheap and if they replace it and it still happens, thats wasted money basically.
 

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Neighbor and I would just up and call FSE.. might call assist for case number first, but sounds like you into a trans..

Search around here for Car Tech Dude.. messgae him with concerns and dealer lack of ability.. dont know what pull if any he have with Canada, but Hybrid same here or there in operation.

Did they do complete fault code search of all the modules looking for DTC that might point to something ?

Haven't seen anything from the Car Tech Dude on here in 2 years. He was a tremendous help with a direct link with Hyundai getting our first ECU update.
 

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My recommendation for two is the following:

1. Describe to the dealership in detail over what the vehicle is doing, when it occurs and possible methods of triggering a response. Say that you want to leave the vehicle with them for 2 days to replicate the issue. In this time they are to start your vehicle and do the following triggers you suggested to them from a cold start with the vehicle sitting there in the morning and a warm start after the vehicle has been running for a while.

In the mean time request a loaner for this 2 day window. Considering the "BOOM" you are referring to is real and loud it should be made clear to the dealer that you refuse to drive the vehicle in fear of costly damages and unsafe operation.

It might be the transmission however the transmission is not the only one component that needs to be looked at here.

A good list of items to include on the days it happen are the following:

1. Was it hot or cold outside?
2. Did it happen when the engine was cold or warm?
3. Are you parked on an incline?
4. Does it only occur in reverse? If so had you try to force the issue by going from Park to R several times between a cold and hot engine?
5. Did the issue occur after servicing such as an oil change from like a Jiffy Lube?
6. Does the issue only occur when it rains?

I would also recommend coming in with the camera in the ready position to capture the moment in action every morning so that you don't miss it.

If you feel you need to extend the 2 day window then do so until you feel the car is fixed and safe to drive.

-michieru
 

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I also recommend the video camera on hand as that is what got my car fixed. An email to the service manager direct with the video is the best way he/she can see from your perspective exactly what you are experiencing. Even though you may be able to vividly articulate it using words, nothing beats an actual video of it seeing (and hearing) the "boom" you describe on the forum. It worked for me after my dealership couldn't duplicate the problem I was having with my drivetrain.
Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
:(, i can use a car tech dude about now.

Believe me, i went to enough details with them but it doesn't help, they still want to see it for themselves or feel it for themselves. I had an audio of some clicking noises i hear at the sentence of the dash, it did nothing, they still wanted to replicate it, i will try to get another audio or video with the more serious problem so i can try to show it to them but i don't think it will make a differences since they want to feel it for themselves but who knows, maybe it will help, anything is better than nothing.
So far, the only thing common about both situation is that they happened when the temperature was warmer. These days, we are getting -10 to -20 temps, some old occasion, we get a 10 degrees and in some of those days, thats where both scenario. I have been getting my phone set up just in case it happens again or at least i feel like it may happen again. Even today, i got my phone out because i felt it was warm, it was like 9 degrees but no luck.

1.the temperature was about 10 degrees CELSIUS, so it wasn't cold

2. First time, it happened after an 1-2hrs after i turned off the car, so i'd say maybe thats a warm start. Second time, car was off for at least 8 hrs, so i would say thats cold start.

3.i was parked on a flat road both times.

4.Yes only reverse. I am paranoid when i go on reverse now. No, i did not try that. Maybe something to consider though , maybe try it 2 or 3 more times before i leave parking lot. I would like the technicians would have tried that but got no luck, but i'm guessing.

5. Coming to think of it, i never thought of that one, yes, it did happen after an oil change, 6 days after to be exact, but does that have an effect on the electric motor, since that seems to be the machine reving fast and not the gas engine. I got the oil change from the dealership, according to the dealer and invoice, they put in castrol GT and gasket oil. My car for some reason says it recommends shell helix. I brought that up to the dealer and they told me castrol GT is better, now i don't know if thats true as i'm not the oil master :p.


6. Now i don't remember either day raining, i just remember it was warmer than usual.

Yep, i'll have to continue to do that and hope for the best. I agreed with both of you until they failed to fix my other minor problem. Lets hope it'll be better for bigger issues. Time will only tell.


michieru, How' did you get that fuelly info for your signature?
 

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1st time. went to my car. (I "front in" park). So i'm doing my usual routine of wanting to reverse my car out of the parking spot to go home. Hand brake released, i put the car to R but the car won't move but the electric motor is reving and it kept going faster and the car started to shake a bit so i began to panick, so i put the car back to park and i hear a "BOOM" (sounded like an explosion of some sort). I turn off the car. I turn it back on, and the cars working normally. I go to the dealer and they scanned my car, nothing is wrong, they recommended me to put N instead of P.

2nd time ( 2 week- 3 weeks after the first occurrence) went to my car. Doing the usual. Same thing happened. I put the car to R but the car won't reverse and the electric motor is reving but unlike the first time, i reacted much quicker, i put the gearbox at N and then "BOOM". I turn off the car. Now i turn the car back on, and want to reverse and my EV mode keeps going on and off on and off and something is happening under the hood but i'm not sure, my guess is its trying to engage to ev mode but it can't. So i figured, maybe i should release the brake pedal and the car seems like it wants to zoom off instead of the gradual and smooth reversing out of the parking spot. So again, i go back to P and turn off the car. I wait it out a little and turn it back on and its moving normally. I go to dealer and they said they are not sure what it is because they can't see it themselves.
Two clutches need to engage to apply reverse - the "low/reverse brake" and "3-5-R clutch" - both multiplate friction clutches engaged with hydraulic pressure controlled by solenoids.

When the car is in P or N, the low/reverse brake should already be 'engaged' and shifting to R only applies the 3-5-R clutch, which is used in 3rd, 5th, and reverse.

It sounds plausible that one or both clutches are not applying, perhaps due to solenoid problems, or maybe the electric trans fluid pump is offline or its pressure regulator is whacked. You say you hear the whirring of the motor spinning, and that sounds like it's freewheeling because the clutches aren't engaged. The boom is probably the clutches applying and bringing the spinning motor to a sudden stop.

When you park, leave some space in front of the car. When starting out, before shifting to R, shift to D and take your foot off the brake. See if the car moves. To go forward and starting in first gear, the "underdrive brake" applies and the "low/reverse" and "3-5-R" are not used. If the car moves forward, you have good pressure. Then shift to R and take your foot off the brake. See if it goes backwards. If not, you could have a problem in the hydraulic circuits for one of those two clutch packs.

Lastly, it could be a simple out-of-adjustment "transaxle inhibitor", which is a fancy name for the switch that controls the transmission selection based on your movement of the PRNDL lever. If that's out of adjustment enough that your "R" selection is half way between P and R as interpreted by the trans computer, all sorts of strange behavior will occur.
 

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Please have dealer refer to

GROUP
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION

NUMBER
13-AT-009

DATE
MAY 2013

MODEL
Tucson (LM), Santa Fe
(CM/AN/NC), Sonata (YF/YF
HEV), Elantra (UD/MD/GD/JK),
Accent (RB), Azera (TG/HG),
Veloster Turbo (FS)

SUBJECT:
AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE HARSH AND/OR DELAYED SHIFT - GDS ANALYSIS

This TSB supersedes TSB 12-AT-012 to add 2013 vehicles.
 

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The reason I ask if it happened after an oil change is because they normally have a newbie or some grease monkey that never passed his certification handle the job. He might of bumped a sensor or placed stress on a wire that went to an important sensor and caused it to prematurely fail. The very obvious one is a check oil/engine light after an oil change but that's normally from not putting the bottom screw on correctly or damaged the screw upon removal.

As I said before if they want to observe the issue then leave them the keys with the car in the shop until "they figure it out". It's not your job to be the mechanic and quite honestly its taking time out of your day and for some of us that's money. Have them give you a loaner and let them keep the car for a week and have them call you every day just to make sure they tested it that day.

4. Throw salt into the wound until you can find a way to replicate it every time.

I found that my A/C compressor will stop blowing cold air when I sat at red lights only on an incline. After going back and forth with the dealership they replaced a few sensors and the compressor and my issue was fixed 3 months later. This was when I had a HST among the other problems with it.

EDIT: On the right column of fuelly when you are logged in you will see a badge icon on the right of the average consumption MPG bar graph [View all badges and stuff you can share]. Click and copy the one for forums and add it to your forum profile here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thanks for the technical information dmlexpert. I will definitely give that a try the next few days. Why do i need to go to D first to test the pressure and hydraulic circuit? Whats the difference between going to R first and then trying D? Shouldn't that test it too?

Yes, it does sound like its freespinning, thats probably a term i should have used during the servicing, instead, i says the electric motor is reving very fast and doesnèt seem like it wants to slow down.

Oh boy, i sure hope this will soon be fixed, freaks me out everytime i go through it.

What is this info your telling me to tell the dealer to refer to? Are you famaliar with the problem?


Oh i see, a newbie or grease monkey, i sure hope i didn't run into that but so far, thats seems to be aligned with what you think might be the problem.

I'd love for them to solve it but i just don't have the faith that they would be able to, i can definitely give it a try when i visit them tomorrow and ask them to provide me a loaner car to solve the problem. Definitely wasting too much time going to the dealer to find out they don't know how to fix the problem. Its annoying to when they tell you "lets duplicate, if cant, goodbye".

I wi'll try to put the fuelly up too now, good luck to me.
 

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thanks for the technical information dmlexpert. I will definitely give that a try the next few days. Why do i need to go to D first to test the pressure and hydraulic circuit? Whats the difference between going to R first and then trying D? Shouldn't that test it too?
It's an intermittent problem, so the idea of trying "D" first is suggested to see if the car can move in either direction. If the car does the same thing in "D" as in "R" - freewheeling with no movement, it is a valve body or fluid pressure problem. It is not something you must do every time, but if you choose to do it, you can help to confirm or eliminate those two possible causes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
but the issue is, i don't know when it will happen. I haven't had any issues with D so far, its has occurred twice for R.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
thanks, i sure hope i can catch it if it happens again, so annoying though, i got to play the guessing game
 
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