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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My wife's car has some serious problems with the rear suspension. At slow speed not much is noticeable. But at higher speeds the problem gets much worse and the problem has gotten significantly worse than from the beginning of the year when i first noticed a problem. What happens when you are at speed and hit a bump, it feels like there is NO lateral stability. the back end literally is floating back and forth in lane. It does not feel very comfortable or safe.

I had been investigating the source of the problem even before the recall for this problem came out. First let's start with the driver side of the rear suspension. I have some color coded diagrams in the overall Recall thread for this .

The suspension in its entirety everything is labeled.


Here you can see a detail of where the assist arm attaches to the cross member. There is a lot of corrosion and some visible cracks even visible in the pictures.


Its a bit hard to see in the picture, but it seems like the spacing on both sides of the bushing for the assist arm is NOT even.




 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Two more from the driver side, first the assist arm

But there is a lot of corrosion and a crack around Lower Control Arm too

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Now on to the passenger side, everything is marked on here

Note really bad corrosion and crack (photobuck may limit to how much you can zoom to see it)




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Summary: I think the bottom line is the corrosion and cracks near where the assist arm connects to the crossmember are causing all the problems. The assist arm is what is adjusted to limit rear suspension toe-in. After a bump it seems to really flex and a sharp change in toe-in angle. As a result the rear suspension is very squirrelly.

This car is going in on Wednesday so i will report how things go. With this damage the BETTER replace this cross member. One drive will confirm that. I am assuming that an alignment will be done too. I want to know if they will also replace the bushings on the assist arm. Some wear is evident, but you can't really tell until the assist arm is removed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
One more interesting picture. This is the other side of the adjuster for rear toe-in.


 

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Great pictures..I saw rust on mine but did not look for cracks..will do when changing to winter tires.

If there is crack..I am not sure rust proofing will fix the problem..
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks CF7. Personally I do not think just doing the anti-rust treatment would work if you are experiencing ANY of the symptoms at all and is temporarily hiding the problem.

Here is what is on the NTSB website regarding this problem. If you want to see it you need to search on the recall number by model etc. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchVehicles

SUMMARY:
Hyundai is recalling certain model year 2006-2010 Sonata vehicles manufactured March 1, 2005, through January 21, 2010; and model year 2006-2011 Azera vehicles manufactured September 27, 2005, through November 22, 2010 originally sold in, or currently registered in, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin and the District of Columbia. Road salt and water can enter portions of the rear crossmember, leading to corrosion of the crossmember steel. This may lead to detachment of one of the rear control arms.

CONSEQUENCE:
Control arm separation may suddenly change the rear wheel alignment, affecting the handling of the vehicle, increasing the risk of a crash.

REMEDY:
Hyundai will notify owners, and dealers will repair or replace the crossmember assembly. The recall began on October 8, 2013. Owners may contact Hyundai Custom Care Center at 1-800-633-5151. Hyundai's recall number is 113.
 

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Tagged for follow up
 

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Thanks for the comprehensive tutorial.

Though they're production type those welds are sure are butt ugly.

As an "09 owner would it be worth it to wait till the tail end of the recall, say 2 years to go for replacement vs. paraffin coating?

Thoughts.....
 

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Neighbor got replacement for his second "113" job today.. both mine been goo, other neighbor was goo also.. not fun to replace,, couple times 3 us us wrass'lin the thing to go back in.. comes right out..


 

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Discussion Starter #9
thanks for the update and pic. That one seems worse than mine and since mine drives so poorly i wonder how that one handled.

I should have an update later tonight. Back to dealer.
 

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I'm not convinced the OP has enough rust to matter. I think he may be seeing cracks in the paint caused by some minor cosmetic rust bubbling and not necessarily significant cracks in the metal. That's what it looks like to me.

We'd have to see more, including the area SBR just showed that has significant rust, but I just don't see it in the OP's pics. I grew up in Iowa, where all cars have cosmetic rust like the OP has on the suspension components.

I would guess that the pictured cosmetic rust is not the cause of your handling claims. If the handling really has gotten worse than a normal Sonata (which aren't good to begin with) then I think you should look into your bushings, struts, springs and other suspension components.

The recall warns of components breaking loose and causing handling problems. Why would that small amount of rust cause a handling issue? If the parts were able to flex enough to affect the handling, then I think things would be physically broken or you'd see big, deep cracks going through the metal.

Unless there's more, significant rust that we can't see in the pics, then I think the rust proofing would be fine for the OP. Of course, that's only based on what we can see in the pics.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I'm not convinced the OP has enough rust to matter. I think he may be seeing cracks in the paint caused by some minor cosmetic rust bubbling and not necessarily significant cracks in the metal. That's what it looks like to me.

We'd have to see more, including the area SBR just showed that has significant rust, but I just don't see it in the OP's pics. I grew up in Iowa, where all cars have cosmetic rust like the OP has on the suspension components.

I would guess that the pictured cosmetic rust is not the cause of your handling claims. If the handling really has gotten worse than a normal Sonata (which aren't good to begin with) then I think you should look into your bushings, struts, springs and other suspension components.

The recall warns of components breaking loose and causing handling problems. Why would that small amount of rust cause a handling issue? If the parts were able to flex enough to affect the handling, then I think things would be physically broken or you'd see big, deep cracks going through the metal.

Unless there's more, significant rust that we can't see in the pics, then I think the rust proofing would be fine for the OP. Of course, that's only based on what we can see in the pics.
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I appreciate your comment, but since you haven't driven the car I can't impress upon you that the car just does NOT feel safe. If you are driving at speed it is not until you hit a bump the car will dart to either side in an unpredictable manner. It feels like there is NO lateral stability.

I don't know that i have made it clear that the tires are brand new, it has brand new shocks and has been fully aligned. All this has been done within 250 miles. I appreciate this is NOT a great handling car, but even less than a year ago with worn tires the car did not exhibit this behaviour.

I have not bothered posting the myriad of other pictures i had taken because there is nothing to show... ie, no corrosion or other problems that are visible. No bushing wear is evident on ANY of the bushes that one can see and i have had some experience with this on other cars i have had. and as far as springs being a problem, except for a spring being broken what other failure does a spring exhibit and if it had an issue you would be experiencing that all the time.

The small cracking i have noted is specifically on the welds holding the assist arm which is what controls the toe on the rear wheels. If this arm deflects even a little bit because of the cracking it can cause rear toe to change. I too am not concerned about surface rust that is purely cosmetic. It is the rust and cracking on welds that is more than concerning.


So far NO satisfaction from the dealers, although they have yet to drive it. (which i am very unhappy with that too) The service and attitudes i have seen are less than stellar. Once again the service writers seem more intent on finding things to write up for more service than what the car was brought in for.
 

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I too am not concerned about surface rust that is purely cosmetic. It is the rust and cracking on welds that is more than concerning.
The problem is that in your pics what you call "rust and cracking" appears in the pics to be only cosmetic rust and paint chipping and cracking from the rust bubbles. That's common on any car that is exposed to decent winter weather conditions or even mild winter conditions. I don't see any evidence of structural cracking in your pics. But, you haven't shown the area SBR showed.

Again, compare you pics to SBR's pics. In his, you can see significant rust and actual holes in the subframe. That could allow the rear assist arm (that straight arm next to the lower control arm) to break free. Or, it could allow the entire subframe mount to break of, meaning part of the subframe would no longer be connected to the body. That would negatively affect handling and would be dangerous.

So far NO satisfaction from the dealers, although they have yet to drive it. (which i am very unhappy with that too) The service and attitudes i have seen are less than stellar. Once again the service writers seem more intent on finding things to write up for more service than what the car was brought in for.
What's the reasoning they have given you? Do they too not see any significant rust?

This just seems like one of the issues where a person on the internet knows only enough to get in trouble. They think their handling is bad, they see a recall, the see small, cosmetic rust, and they don't know that many, many cars have cosmetic rust like that. I'm not saying that's exactly what's happening in the your case, but I just don't see the evidence in your pics to prove your contention. Maybe you're right, but I'm not seeing it.

Try to look at the area shown in SBR's photos and take some pics. That may shed more light.
 

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I can tell by looking at his pics that his has trivial surface rust.. the rotted 1 we got was obviously rotted just by looking.. neighbor put car up, and could tell before he got under car it was not go to be a good morning..

Brother Flots' car looks like the vast majority we seen already, normal surface rust from exposure.

Did have an Azera last week, back tracked selling dealer to Chicago.. this thing nicely rusted, lots of chunk surface rust, peeling rubber coat that Hyundai dipped the parts in,, but it still passed the punch test in the places they specify,, and I even punched a few other suspect areas,, it pass, so it got goop and sent on it' way.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I can tell by looking at his pics that his has trivial surface rust.. the rotted 1 we got was obviously rotted just by looking.. neighbor put car up, and could tell before he got under car it was not go to be a good morning..

Brother Flots' car looks like the vast majority we seen already, normal surface rust from exposure.

Did have an Azera last week, back tracked selling dealer to Chicago.. this thing nicely rusted, lots of chunk surface rust, peeling rubber coat that Hyundai dipped the parts in,, but it still passed the punch test in the places they specify,, and I even punched a few other suspect areas,, it pass, so it got goop and sent on it' way.

Ok so the question is where do i go from here? I already have new tires, new shocks and a car in alignment. Do i systematically have to replace every single component in the rear suspension when there is NO visible damage to any of them?

If this car showed up in your bay what would YOU do next?
 

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I'd ask to go for drive with you, and see what is happening following your direction,,, like that going to happen in some shops..

Visual of parts, tire air, and I dont know if I have asked before, do you have the actual current align numbers that they set to car to before return to you ? I got a nasty align today that if I was customer and knew anything about aling numbers, I be raising a storm of why the numbers so jacked up,, I need to scan and post this car.. it CRAZY.. as they say,, "IT's in specs",, but relate the numbers to making a square..
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I'd ask to go for drive with you, and see what is happening following your direction,,, like that going to happen in some shops..

Visual of parts, tire air, and I dont know if I have asked before, do you have the actual current align numbers that they set to car to before return to you ? I got a nasty align today that if I was customer and knew anything about aling numbers, I be raising a storm of why the numbers so jacked up,, I need to scan and post this car.. it CRAZY.. as they say,, "IT's in specs",, but relate the numbers to making a square..
thanks SBR I appreciate your honesty. I guess you can tell i am quite exasperated with the treatment i have received. and as i have written before I have a great deal of respect for technicians that are actually interested in solving problems like yourself. Having two shops unwilling to actually be interested in solving the problem is really grating. Instead once again they seem to want to do these "safety checks" which is about finding things they can charge for instead of actually trying to solve the problem the car came in for. So no test drives ........

I will see if i can locate the alignment specs from when i got the new tires and rear shocks.
 

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thanks SBR I appreciate your honesty. I guess you can tell i am quite exasperated with the treatment i have received. and as i have written before I have a great deal of respect for technicians that are actually interested in solving problems like yourself. Having two shops unwilling to actually be interested in solving the problem is really grating. Instead once again they seem to want to do these "safety checks" which is about finding things they can charge for instead of actually trying to solve the problem the car came in for. So no test drives ........

I will see if i can locate the alignment specs from when i got the new tires and rear shocks.
There is a "Huge" difference between a service writer and a true mechanic. The service writers job is to initiate paying work for his company. The job of a mechanic is to fix specific problems. Have you tried taking it to another dealership and ask to have a test drive by a mechanic/technician?
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
There is a "Huge" difference between a service writer and a true mechanic. The service writers job is to initiate paying work for his company. The job of a mechanic is to fix specific problems. Have you tried taking it to another dealership and ask to have a test drive by a mechanic/technician?
At both places that was my expectation that the car would be test driven by a mechanic. The few times i have had to deal with the dealerships in Maryland has been frustrating. I typically will do something myself or I do have another independent mechanic that i prefer dealing with.
 

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At both places that was my expectation that the car would be test driven by a mechanic.
I think your confusing a few items and not by intention. The parameters set out by HMA for this campaign are an inspection with testing of site specific area's for stress punctures, in fact the write up is around 22 pages and does not allow for test drives. It appears your looking for a diagnosis of an issue with handling, possibly related to the campaign. May I suggest asking them to diagnosis the handling issue with you paying that fee and an agreement that if it is the cross member the fee's waived.

A mechanic in a cars seat without reimbursement from any source is not overhead, it's lost revenue.
 
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