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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I recently got a Terracan 2.9 CRDI with no start condition.

When reading DTC with HiScan Pro (Cascade), I see P0340.
So I replace Cam Sensor, but still same error logged and still have no start condition.

Rail pressure is good, fuel is there.
Engine is cranking with normal sound and strong (3-4 rev per second / 180-240 rpm)

I notice when logging live data, the engine rpm is reported only with "20" while cranking. So I clean the Crank shaft sensor, it was quite dirty. After cleaning still same problem.

Now my question:
Does anyone know what Engine rpm is supposed to be reported on HiScan Pro (Cascade) while cranking ? Maybe someone could try and report, that would be great. I expected to see ± 200.

I plan to check timing belt for alignment as next step and then EGR.
Will also double-check wiring from sensors to ECM in the meantime.

Lastly I guess need to replace Crankshaft Sensor !

Best Regards,

Marco
 

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Did the code reappear after you fitted a new one? Have a close look at the wiring at the plug for insulation breakdown and a possible short. I think the cranking speed might just be a base number your scan tool uses till the engine starts or the RPM gets above a certain speed. 20 RPM is ridiculously slow.
 

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Cam sensor power supply and ground OK?
Test by disconnecting the sensor and touching your voltmeter probes onto the two outer terminals of the harness connector.
I'm not that familiar with the Delphi management system on the Terracan but I think Delphi sensors work off a 5Volt power supply.

You could try checking the signal voltage too by connecting the black meter probe to battery negative and touching the red one onto the center terminal.
Again, I'm not familiar with the Delphi system but generally you would see approx 5V on the signal wire if the wiring leading back to the engine computer is OK.
 

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Diesel engine?
Don't know much about diesel
But, 20 rpm is slow.
Still the starter motor won't have the power to crank the engine as fast as if it was being powered by fuel
And CC mentioned that it was probably just a numbered used until the engine starts up

Did the check engine light come on?
Do you live in a market that requires and immobilizer in the car?

Next is to do the checks that Autospark mentioned
My guess is that there may be no signal to the injectors
But, one step at a time.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hello all!

WOW Thanks so much for so quick answers.
Merry X-Mas first of all.

I try to answer everything:

I should have written, but Code 0340 reappeared. I look at the connector plug, contacts and cable, they are OK.

I check 5V current = OK
Ground by checking resistance Cam Sensor connector plug ground
to engine NOT OK (in my opinion) = 30 Ohms


I also thought that maybe 20 rpm is just something that the scanner shows while cranking. It would be great if anyone could confirm or check, I use HiScan Pro Hyundai scanner with Cascade emulator.

If anyone has this scanner software, maybe you could just check what engine rpm are shown while cranking.

All other values appear to be within normal ranges.

Yes this is Diesel engine.

Engine is def. cranking at normal speed (200-300 rpm). It is NOT cranking at 20 rpm :)

Check engine light does not come on, I check workshop manual (recently got it), and per workshop manual for P0340 check engine light will not come on anyways.

Car is import from Germany and Germany spec.
The car has immobilizer and immobilizer is working fine.
No immobilizer related errors, remote control works fine and
checked also the learning of the key using hi-scan hyundai tool

You are right that there is no signal to the injectors.
I already check that. Pressure is there at the rail, but no signal given to injectors.

I think ECU does not give signal to injectors, either because it detect low engine rpm (20 rpm as shown) or because it detects incoherence between crankshaft sensor and camshaft sensor.

Since I have 30 Ohm between sensor connector and engine, I think I first check timing Crank/CAM is aligned (now i know where the marks are) and then check all the wiring harness to the ECU as next step.

I will let you know my findings thanks a lot for the help so far!
 

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Since I have 30 Ohm between sensor connector and engine, I think......check all the wiring harness to the ECU as next step.
Yes, 30 Ohms sounds a little high, but your test isn't actually measuring the resistance of the sensor ground. The sensor grounds via the engine PCM, not to the engine block. To test the sensor circuit properly you really need to measure the resistance between the sensor and the PCM, with both components disconnected from the harness.

Another thing to check is the fuel rail pressure/pressure sensor voltage during crank. Again, I'm not that familiar with the Delphi management system but usually the PCM won't trigger the injectors on a CRD engine until a minimum pressure has built up in the fuel rail. If there is a fuel leak the minimum pressure will never be achieved causing a non start....quite a common fault.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you very much !
I checked the rail pressure during crank is 180-220 bars, per Hyundai specification minimum should be 170.
In my opinion should be OK. If rail pressure too low, the ECU would log an error as well.

You are right of course the ground point reference is not correct and I need to check complete wiring and current and ground at ECM itself.

But still 30 Ohm sounds like too much to me between any two ground point in a car.

A friend gave me the hint to check wiring loom on right inner fender, apparently there is a spot susceptible to damage due to vibration/rubbing.

I will check all of this within the next couple of days.
 

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The question is "why won't it start??"
Is it because there is no injector signal?
And if that is so, then why is there no signal?

I don't know diesel .. so I ask lots of questions
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yesterday we change crank position sensor as well and check resistance and voltage on all wiring.

With ECU disconnected:

Resistance is less than 1 ohm on all wires between ECU connector and crankshaft position sensor connector/ resp. camshaft position sensor connector on the other side.

There is also no shortcut to ground ( all pins have infinite resistance against ground )

There is no shortcut between the wires of each connector (infinite resistance between pin 1, 2, 3)

With ECU connected and car turned to key position 2:

Resistance between Cam sensor ground/shield and any other ground point on car creeps up to 15-20 ohm
Couldnt check Crank sensor ground/shield yet as its a POS to reach from under the car and stick a test wire in.

Also opened and cleaned all ground points in engine bay and close to ECU.


The RPM while cranking still show 20, even with the new sensor.


During testing and after several start attempts with no success,
the car suddenly started up just fine once, ran for around 3-4 seconds and then died again.


I suspect some problem with ECU. So will try different ECU.
 

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Did you try back probing a grounded wire into the cam sensor ground terminal to see if that got the engine started?
If the ground track inside the PCM has a high resistance the additional ground wire would short circuit the resistance. I'd certainly try that before replacing the PCM.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Did you try back probing a grounded wire into the cam sensor ground terminal to see if that got the engine started?
If the ground track inside the PCM has a high resistance the additional ground wire would short circuit the resistance. I'd certainly try that before replacing the PCM.

tried adding additional ground at ECU, at the shield pins of crank and cam sensor, between chassis and engine. no difference.

the ground reading from ECU ground pins to chassis ground ( direct at the two ground points close to the ECU ) is good (less than 1 ohm).
reading between cam shaft sensor shield is > 30 ohms.

I also check crankshaft sensor AC output is good showing frequency that is in line with starter rpm (160-200 hertz).

Also unplugged, checked and cleaned all connections between crankshaft sensor and ECU (there is one under the car and another one close to ECU itself). Everything good, no corrosion, broken wires or anything.

I really think problem is somehow within ECU itself so want to try with a different one to exclude that.

So now I have gotten a known to be good, used ECU here, but problem is it is coded to a different car.
Immo light doesn't even come up with that ECU connected. Interesting enough, that ECU does not log the 0340 DTC when trying to start.

I have the 6 digit PIN and 4 digit password code for my original ECU and have previously used that successfully to teach keys.

Does anyone know what is the process to swap ECU ?
Inside the diagnoses, I go into Immobilizer and choose "neutral mode" option, it asks me for 6 digit PIN but does not accept the PIN from original ECU.
I suppose I need to enter the 6 digit PIN for the replacement ECU, correct ?
 

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I suppose I need to enter the 6 digit PIN for the replacement ECU, correct ?
Correct. The PIN from your car won't work with an ECU that was never originally programmed with that PIN. You need to enter the PIN from the donor vehicle to neutralize the ECU.

Just a thought....have you checked the password status on your replacement ECU?
If the password status is VIRGIN, you can teach it a new password and that will allow you to temporarily bypass the immobilizer using the limp home facility. It would allow you to test the ECU without having to get the PIN from the donor car.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
got the VIN and 6 digit PIN from the replacement ECU. PIN is correct (I can go into key teaching menu).

unfortunately don't have the 4 digit PIN (it has been altered and is unknown).
so i can not reset the 4 digit pin ( that is only possible with the old pin itself ) to test limp home mode

I can not teach new keys (since there are already keys registered) and can not use "neutral mode" either....

I try to get the key/transponder chip from the car the replacement ECU came off now.
 

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I guess you must need a valid key to neutralize the ECU then. I must confess to never having tried to neutralize an ECU when it was already removed from the donor car.
 

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Yes this appears to be correct sir. We try to neutralize with a known key / transponder now. Alternatively we would have to
Open ECU and read and reprogram 95080 chip (similar to Citroen ddcr ecu)
We want to avoid that as it’s too risky .
 

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I'm 99% sure I saw a procedure to re-code new keys etc. in the PDF manual I have for a Terracan.
If I can find it I'll you know..
 

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We try to neutralize with a known key / transponder now.
Alternatively we would have to Open ECU and read and reprogram 95080 chip.
If you have the ignition key that is matched to your replacement ECU you could use that key to start your engine, so you wouldn't even need to neutralize the ECU. I think I'd try that before going to the trouble of recoding your original keys, just to make sure the replacement ECU does cure the problem.
 

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If you have the ignition key that is matched to your replacement ECU you could use that key to start your engine, so you wouldn't even need to neutralize the ECU. I think I'd try that before going to the trouble of recoding your original keys, just to make sure the replacement ECU does cure the problem.
Good tip ! We try exactly that as a first step.
We put the steering column with transponder sensor and key from the same car the replacement ECU came from and connected it to the car.
ECU / Immobilizer recognize key correctly ("learnt").

Now the challenge, car still dont start with same error P0340 cam sensor inplausible.
So we are back to 0.

Cam sensor seems to be Hall sensor like modern ABS sensors, so I can not easily test it like the crank sensor (Magnetic type).

But I think, it must pick up reference notch from the back of the driver-side cam.
So first step I will open valve cover and see if there is any foreign object, dirt that could cause problem with cam sensor signal.
 

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Cam sensor seems to be Hall sensor like modern ABS sensors, so I can not easily test it like the crank sensor (Magnetic type).
You can test a Hall type cam sensor quite easily with a voltmeter. I've never tested a 5V Delphi sensor so the voltages below might not be right but the test should work.

Connect your black meter probe to battery negative and back probe the red probe into the centre terminal of the cam sensor connector.

Remove the sensor from the engine and switch the ignition on. Hold the sensor clear of the engine and take a note of the voltage on the meter. It will either be 0V or 5V.

Now take a spanned or screwdriver and hold it up against the face of the sensor. You should see the voltage change as you move the metal towards the face of the sensor. If it was 0V originally, it should change to 5V. If it was originally 5V it should change to 0V.

But cam sensor failure shouldn't prevent the engine from starting.

terracan4x4 said:
But I think, it must pick up reference notch from the back of the driver-side cam.
So first step I will open valve cover and see if there is any foreign object, dirt that could cause problem with cam sensor signal.
While the sensor is off the engine have someone crank it over while you look into the sensor cavity and make sure the cam shaft rotates during crank. Obviously, you'll get a cam sensor no signal code if the cam itself isn't rotating below the sensor.
 
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