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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

Quick question to ya'll. I am trying to find some sort of heater or other solution that would help get the hybrid battery heated in our current cold temps.

Lately we are having some very cold temps -30c and since its my first winter with my '13 HSH, I see the pattern that the car goes thru before its fully heated and the battery appears to be what's holding it up for now. I am to the point where the gas engine is heated but I still have super low battery capacity with the gas engine kicking in during regen on a downhill and braking results in minuscule amounts of energy being recovered (compared to much more when the battery is at correct temps).

So I am looking for a solution to help heat up that battery. I read about things like a heating blanket, small heater that you could direct strait to the battery air intake on the back of the cab. What do you think about these? Any ideas??
SV
 

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I dont have a good suggestion, however do have a concern with what you are doing..

isn't the hybrid battery lifetime warranty? I can see your reasoning (greater fuel efficiency) but why do something that could render the warranty null and void. Let it be is my 2 cents, if they are cared for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
hmm, I wasn't expecting doing this would void the warranty! Altho up north in Canada we don't have lifetime warranty on the battery, the current warranty is still nice and I would hate to void it.

But how would putting heat in front of the air intakes void the warranty? Its a bit like simulating a heated cabin, no? Since the battery takes its air from the intakes at the back of the cabin, putting a heater in front of it or having a naturally heated cabin endsup being the same thing in the end? How would that void it.

Same for a blanket around it, would be like a normal hotter day.

I don't see how it would void it! Hmm *intrigued*
 

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I think there's a venting issue with the battery that might make a blanket problematic, especially if the weather were to warm up.

The other thing is there have been comments thru-out the forums about an oil that is associated with the electric motor that requires the ICE to warm it to operational temperature. This may be why you see ICE operational even when going downhill in 'coast' mode.

Barry
 

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hmm, I wasn't expecting doing this would void the warranty!
But how would putting heat in front of the air intakes void the warranty? Its a bit like simulating a heated cabin, no? Since the battery takes its air from the intakes at the back of the cabin, putting a heater in front of it or having a naturally heated cabin endsup being the same thing in the end? How would that void it.

Same for a blanket around it, would be like a normal hotter day.

I don't see how it would void it! Hmm *intrigued*
I forgot about the warranty difference between the US and Canada.

Anyhow, Im not saying it would void the warranty, but if there ever was a fault with the battery or a related system, and the servicing dealership were to notice any modifications (albeit a blanket or ductwork) to the system, they could try and say the part is not covered due to modifications that do not abide by manufacturer specifications.

That being said it could easily go to court, in which case it would need proved....blah blah blah. Its just not a good scenario is all.

Good luck nevertheless.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hmm, I can only suppose that I would need to be careful not to block any kind of valves or anything of that sort when putting the blanket but I was thinking about just covering the battery in the trunk without actually opening the cover, I doubt there is any kind of things that can be blocked from the trunk. Else it would be too easy to have shopping bags block things in there. But just putting a blanket on top of the battery cover in the trunk is probably not very effective, I don't really know (suggestions?).

This would only be used in temperatures under 0c, above that I wouldn't be plugging it so risks of causing damage on a hot day is pretty much impossible. It would be careless of me to do that on a hot day.

About the oil needing warmup, in this case a block heater could help but in my example I have gone beyond the point where the ICE is heated up. The temperature gauge shows close to 50% level, which is the level I get during the summer so the ICE is heated at this point, but battery is still cold. With the cold battery, I have very bad capacity so ICE will startup on downhills (not to warmup but to help braking) and I will get very bad regen when I brake since the battery capacity is always maxed out (because its cold) even tho its barely over 50% on the SoC gauge.


(note: all the affirmations up there are mostly assumptions as I am no expert and those assumptions are made only from my limited knowledge of battery operation in cold conditions and also from observations on what the car is doing and is showing from the driver side cluster. If what I assume up there is wrong, please correct me!!)
 

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SV,
Here's something else that commonly comes up when someone mentions what seems to be an overrun in ICE operations.

Next time you're going downhill on a really cold day, engine seems to be at operational temps and the car won't go into and stay in EV mode; try shutting down the heater, maybe seat heaters as well, and see if there's a correlation.
 

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Good point about battery warranty; not a cheap part to deal with.

GM Chevy Volt has a heated/cooled battery; maybe try try to get a look at one , when warranty is over might want to try something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Barry, about the heating, indeed this needs to be kept under control. In my case, that's the first thing I will shutoff when I feel I should be running on EV alone or whenever the ICE temp is not at 50% on the temp gauge.

The difference here is when I look at the energy flow screen of the HSH, it will show energy coming off the wheels to the engine as well as the battery. If the battery was at temp, I would not see energy going to the engine, I would rather see everything go towards the battery with engine being off.

This tells me that the battery is still cold/frozen and won't accept more charge. In this case it is even better to just keep the cabin heating on as it has no effect on how the energy is distributed and might actually contribute to heating the battery up. If the energy would be sent towards only the battery when going downhill, then I would shutoff the cabin heating as the battery can accept the charge. However if it doesn't, then its wasted energy so heating can be left on at maximum!

BTW, when I drove back from work yesterday, it was midnight and even colder than what I had when I took off to work that day. I was 3/4 thru my drive before I had my first full EV cycle, ouch (thats about 30 minutes with mostly highway speeds before I had the first EV cycle). I even tried to force a few quick charges/discharges to try to heat the battery up, not quite sure how effective that was tho. I wish I had a more precise SoC display. For example, a % of total SoC. That way I would have been able to easily monitor the capacity limit of the battery and I could have forced better EV cycles to potentially heat it up even more.

I guess this is the weakness of the HSH, I wasn't expecting to have that much of a problem with cold tho. My estimates of running at 6l/100km as a worst case scenario is gonna probably endup closer to the 7l/100. Right now she's at 6.6l/100 and only endured 3 days of supercold.

Solutions appear to be relatively simple in that I need to find a way to heat it up. The solutions doesn't appear to be complicated to the point of needing a rocket scientist to figure this out. Kinda surprised that there was no heating solution built in from hyundai itself or at least an accessory that you can buy separately, hmm.

While searching, I spotted a post down on this forum with someone having tried to put a heater that blows hot air to the battery (he removed the cover tho) and he says that it pretty much fixed his problem outright. Seems like a good place to start from. http://www.hyundai-forums.com/229-s...cold-weather-fuel-mileage-problem-solved.html
 

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I guess this is the weakness of the HSH, I wasn't expecting to have that much of a problem with cold tho. My estimates of running at 6l/100km as a worst case scenario is gonna probably endup closer to the 7l/100. Right now she's at 6.6l/100 and only endured 3 days of supercold.
A week or so ago during that big storm in the GTA area (Canada), I had my meter at 10.2 L/100km - a lot of stop and go and lots of slipping around. Now I'm around 7.2 L/100KM in the cold.

I used to get about 900 KM/tank during mid Fall (when I got the car), now I'm seeing around 800 KM/tank.

The cold is giving this car a beating, and I drive a lot of long distances.
 

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Batteries will heat up as energy is discharged and recharged. The gas engine will cool off faster than normal in low temperatures and in order for it to operate properly with the most fuel economy it will need to be in ideal temperature. This is by design and not a problem. Gas mileage just sucks at colder temperatures and anything you do to heat the battery will simply be wasted time and energy because you can't heat up the actual core. If anything have the heat on full blast.
 

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I also have a hybrid (Ford product) and no where near the temps you see but there is a huge difference in the winter months in my mpg as well as it takes me like 10 miles to get that engine warm enough and to make up for that lost energy in heating it up to what would be in the warmer months. Not the battery I think but the fact that the gas engine has to come up to operating temps before it will shut down and let the electric motor help out or take over. Not sure that anything can be done about cold weather.
 
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