Hyundai Forums banner

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Took my car (2006 Sonata LX) to 2 different tiresplus shops to see if I could get an alignment. My front tires are wearing faster on the inside, and I'm getting a tiny amount of shaking at high speeds. A while ago I got a flat in the front, forgot to pull the e-brake cus I was in a rush to get to work, and the front of the car fell over the jack and the bottom hit the pavement. Since then is when I started noticing the tires wearing on the inside. Anyways I took it in and they said they weren't sure what was causing it, but my alignment was way off, and they didn't even attempt to fix it. They recommended I replace my struts/shocks all the way around and that MIGHT help it align, but I'm obviously not going to do it until I'm that will help. I plan on taking it to the dealer, as I'm sure they have a better chance at figuring it out, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone here had anything similar to this or has seen this.....

Tireplus gave me a stat sheet on my current alignment and it reads:

Left Front: Camber = 0.0, Caster = 3.3, Toe = -0.85
Right Front: Camber = -0.8, Caster = 3.3, Toe = -0.94
Cross Caster is .1m and Cross Camber is .8

Left Rear: Camber = 0.2, Toe = 0.14
Right Rear: Camber = -1.0, Toe = 0.51
Thrust Angle in the back is -0.91

Don't know if any of that helps, but it doesn't hurt.

Thanks..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
My alignment from earlier this year is attached. You can see my caster and camber for the front are not in the "green" area but not TOO far off.

They gave me the same advice - replace struts.

FYI: camber/caster are not adjustable, unless you buy a special kit.

I did not have any unusual wear though.

I am obviously not replacing the struts.

[attachment=20193:alignment2.GIF]
 

Attachments

·
Banned
Joined
·
335 Posts
You should have said fine let's replace them? Isn't the Warranty supposed to restore the Car back to manufacturers specs?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the input. I wasn't aware that camber and caster wasn't part of a typical adjustment like toe. So I'm assuming the fact that my toe is pretty bad is what is causing the unusual tire wear on the inside....it actually says on the sheet that a negative toe will cause the shoulders to wear, so I think that is the main problem for me.

Do you think if I bring it someplace else and tell them I don't care about the camber and caster right now that they'll get my toe straightened out? I have people that I can pay to put in new struts down the road, and it really doesn't seem to be a major deal. I really just need to get my toe in line so I can stop burning through tires in the front.

Thanks guys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,552 Posts
QUOTE (seanr9ne @ Sep 9 2010, 10:55 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355227
Thanks for the input. I wasn't aware that camber and caster wasn't part of a typical adjustment like toe. So I'm assuming the fact that my toe is pretty bad is what is causing the unusual tire wear on the inside....it actually says on the sheet that a negative toe will cause the shoulders to wear, so I think that is the main problem for me.

Do you think if I bring it someplace else and tell them I don't care about the camber and caster right now that they'll get my toe straightened out? I have people that I can pay to put in new struts down the road, and it really doesn't seem to be a major deal. I really just need to get my toe in line so I can stop burning through tires in the front.

Thanks guys

I been meaning top weigh in on this topic, stay tuned... I'm tied up with job right now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,552 Posts
QUOTE (seanr9ne @ Sep 7 2010, 07:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=354911
Anyways I took it in and they said they weren't sure what was causing it, but my alignment was way off, and they didn't even attempt to fix it.
WHAT, align flunkie cant read the numbers and see what the problem is... time for that person to go to chassis school

*** as I'm sure they have a better chance at figuring it out, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone here had anything similar to this or has seen this.....

Tireplus gave me a stat sheet on my current alignment and it reads:

Left Front: Camber = 0.0, Caster = 3.3, Toe = -0.85 -- Toe here, crank it down to +0.03Right Front: Camber = -0.8, Caster = 3.3, Toe = -0.94 -- Toe here, crank it down to +0.03Cross Caster is .1m and Cross Camber is .8 --- Camber spread of 0.8 ---> may well cause push/pull to left

Left Rear: Camber = 0.2, Toe = 0.14 -- Too much toe for me, crank it down to 0.00/+0.03max,,, like to see the camber slight on the negative side myself

Right Rear: Camber = -1.0, Toe = 0.51 --- Way toooo much camber,, -0.5 max... Toe is gross, crank it down to 0.00/+0.03 max..

Thrust Angle in the back is -0.91 --> result of rear toe total/imbalance/steer angle at rear
Don't know if any of that helps, but it doesn't hurt.

Thanks..


Did you hit a few somethings hard ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
QUOTE (sbr711 @ Sep 9 2010, 11:29 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355249
Did you hit a few somethings hard ?
Yea I had my car jacked up enough to get my front right wheel off a while back after a flat. Took the wheel off, and since I forgot to pull the e-brake cus i was in a hurry, the car fell off the jack and the front right side hit the pavement. Dented up my oil pan pretty good and the subframe grinded a bit on the front right side. I'm sure that caused a few alignment problems, but from your opinions on my stats, you don't seem to think it's screwed up beyond what a regular alignment could fix.

I'm really just focusing on getting the toe corrected so I don't have my front tires wearing on the inside every 6 months. I really don't mind a push/pull in a certain direction in the short term. I really just want my front two tires to face forward and have normal wear, and from what I've been reading it's probably my toe that is causing that. I guess I really need to be more direct with the next place I take it to, and tell them that I realize the cambers and casters aren't perfect, but my toe is what is causing me problems.

Let me know if you think that's correct, and thanks for the help!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
335 Posts
It is a whole 'nother story when your frame is bent. What about if you didn't get your Steering sensor re calibrated? :liebe011:

SBR, you had a lot to say about the subject on another forum? :whistling:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
QUOTE (NFV6 @ Sep 9 2010, 02:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355295
It is a whole 'nother story when your frame is bent. What about if you didn't get your Steering sensor re calibrated? :liebe011:

SBR, you had a lot to say about the subject on another forum? :whistling:
I don't think the impact would have been enough to bend the subframe, at least not in a way where it would cause huge problems. I took a look at it and just noticed a small rust spot from the where the paint was stripped off when it fell...but nothing really looks out of order. I'm sure the impact knocked off alignment, but I don't think it did any real damage to the frame. Could be possible though.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
335 Posts
I think I know what the bottom line is here? Any Alignment from TiresPlus, or Firestone, or ANY other shop that doesn't have the ability

to realign the Steering Sensor as the Hyundai Dealer needs to do can't possibly align the car properly :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,552 Posts
QUOTE (NFV6 @ Sep 10 2010, 10:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355596
I think I know what the bottom line is here? Any Alignment from TiresPlus, or Firestone, or ANY other shop that doesn't have the ability

to realign the Steering Sensor as the Hyundai Dealer needs to do can't possibly align the car properly :thumbsup:



They can do the align,,,,, but they do not have the software to recalibrate the SAS (Steering Angle Sensor) ...
BUT I DO :banana: (see picture ---- the 3rd column -> Software Management, then down 3 places to "OPTION TREATMENT")

Along similar lines, had fella come in and state his ESC light was on, so I scan it, and find a YAW SENSOR signal.... So I go to take car out in the lot and watch Yaw Sensor data...

Here I find out steering wheel is 45 degree to left when rolling straight (customer made no complaint of steering wheel being so far off center).... module is seeing a ton of steering wheel angle, AND NO YAW ---> Yaw was "0"....... so i do a left hand tight circle... now the Yaw is signaling G force 1 way... Turn right, now I have Yaw signal with G force other direction....

Lesson is SAS needs to be calibrated for new steering straight ahead, or else module could see excess steering angle and "0" yaw and goe nuts.... why we turning with no G force ?? ESC wont function correct.. likely shut off
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,084 Posts
QUOTE (sbr711 @ Sep 10 2010, 08:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355602
They can do the align,,,,, but they do not have the software to recalibrate the SAS (Steering Angle Sensor) ...
So what is the level of "forgiveness" with regard to the SAS? I have had 3 alignments performed by Firestone with no apparent SAS issues. Vehicle drives straight with steering wheel level and no ESC issues that I can tell. Does the SAS need only be reset if steering wheel was not level after alignment? If I ask Firestone to make sure steering wheel remains level after alignment, does that negate the need for a SAS recalibration? Should I go to Hyundai dealer after every alignment and ask for a SAS recalibration? Dealer wants $70 per alignment and I am getting them free at Firestone, ($140 lifetime alignment). This fly by wire stuff is nice for aircraft, (which have triple redundancy, get serviced much more often and cost is not as much of an issue), not sure a good idea for everyday vehicles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,552 Posts
QUOTE (ActionMan @ Sep 10 2010, 11:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355605
So what is the level of "forgiveness" with regard to the SAS?
Funny you ask, as it was brought up in CHASSIS class in July... I want to say it is 10-15 on the angle reading before system starts wondering... I have to find my course book and look there and on the web course.




Does the SAS need only be reset if steering wheel was not level after alignment?
It is supposed to be calibrated after completion of align, so module knows where new "0" point is with steering wheel and car rolling straight.

If I ask Firestone to make sure steering wheel remains level after alignment, does that negate the need for a SAS recalibration?
No, because we do not know if module was seeing "0" before hand..

Should I go to Hyundai dealer after every alignment and ask for a SAS recalibration?
Be best if you want to be assured that the ESC is seeing correct values for proper operation if the time ever came about
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,084 Posts
Does SAS need to be recalibrated while still on alignment rack right after alignment has been performed or can it properly recalibrated anytime soon after an alignment has been performed, i.e. after driving from Firestone to dealer?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
335 Posts
QUOTE (ActionMan @ Sep 10 2010, 10:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355615
Does SAS need to be recalibrated while still on alignment rack right after alignment has been performed or can it properly recalibrated anytime soon after an alignment has been performed, i.e. after driving from Firestone to dealer?
Great questions. While I canceled my Alignment set for tomorrow, I was seriously thinking of doing that Firestone $149 lifetime thing. However I don't have a

Firestone within 120 miles of me! My Dealer is 60 miles away :liebe011:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,552 Posts
QUOTE (ActionMan @ Sep 10 2010, 11:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355615
Does SAS need to be recalibrated while still on alignment rack right after alignment has been performed or can it properly recalibrated anytime soon after an alignment has been performed, i.e. after driving from Firestone to dealer?

Do you alignment and finish it. Test drive and verify steering wheel is centered (tweak the tie rods to roll steering wheel 1 way or other to make it look nice),, then hit dealer for SAS Calibration so module knows what the straight ahead "ZERO" point is,,, from there, the module will know correctly how much and how fast, and the direction the steering wheel is being rotated from "ZERO"



(LEFT) -100......-50...... "0" ...... +50 ...... +100 (RIGHT)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,552 Posts
Follow up to post #14 in regard to SAS error before lights may come on ..

I happen to look up at shelf here on desk. there sits my course book from CHASSIS... I knew it was brought up, as we did play with the Santa Fe scenario I had with the steering wheel sitting sideways going straight and no yaw..


We took shop vehicle, turned steering sideways, then zero'ed the SAS.... now module see a ton of steer angle when car was actually going straight, and zero yaw.. we horsed it a little around the building before it turned on light because data did not jive.

See picture -
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,084 Posts
QUOTE (sbr711 @ Sep 11 2010, 07:34 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355654
Do you alignment and finish it. Test drive and verify steering wheel is centered (tweak the tie rods to roll steering wheel 1 way or other to make it look nice),, then hit dealer for SAS Calibration so module knows what the straight ahead "ZERO" point is,,, from there, the module will know correctly how much and how fast, and the direction the steering wheel is being rotated from "ZERO"



(LEFT) -100......-50...... "0" ...... +50 ...... +100 (RIGHT)


Thanks for info, SBR. I decided to call dealer and they said that Firestone should be able to perform SAS recalibration. Talked to Firestone service manager and he replied that they recently added the SAS recalibration procedure to their alignment process. Unfortunately, as it stands now, it will be billed on top of the alignment as a separate service for ~$50, half-hour's labor. I asked if there was a possibility that it could be included in the lifetime alignment, even if there was a separate one-time cost for the lifetime alignment w/SAS recalibration, and that has not been determined yet.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
335 Posts
QUOTE (ActionMan @ Sep 11 2010, 01:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355708
Thanks for info, SBR. I decided to call dealer and they said that Firestone should be able to perform SAS recalibration. Talked to Firestone service manager and he replied that they recently added the SAS recalibration procedure to their alignment process. Unfortunately, as it stands now, it will be billed on top of the alignment as a separate service for ~$50, half-hour's labor. I asked if there was a possibility that it could be included in the lifetime alignment, even if there was a separate one-time cost for the lifetime alignment w/SAS recalibration, and that has not been determined yet.
Oh ActionMan and SBR.. I am even more confused than in the last 4 Hours. I just put on brand new BF Goodrich G Force Sports, ($75 :trophy: ), possibly the best price anywhere in the Country and especially didn't get an alignment as I am going to have the Hyundai Dealer do it. Well my Dealer doesn't do alignments, and the service adviser never heard of the SAS calibration. I had him ask the Service Manager, and he wasn't familiar with the process either? So I asked if they could just run it by the Tech, and the tech said yes it "should" be done. Usually Dealers will try to cram a service down your throat, but in this case I was told if I would like to get it done after my Independent alignment, it will be $42.50, and he sounded nervous telling me this, as he had no idea what it all meant. I told him I had the Hyundai GDS screen shot, and passed on some Internet information to this adviser to hopefully educate him. He said, "Oh you saw this on the Internet"?

All I know is I wound up getting 4 BF Goodrich G Force Sport 17's from the Internet for $75, Tax free, which they shouldn't have been State to State, and I had them sitting in my Apartment for the last two days, and now everything smells like Rubber. My BF Goodrich Tires were made 3 Weeks ago. :clap: Am I going to die? :p

On a side note Sears got busted for selling 12 Year old 'new' Tires. Many places sell old tires. The Born on date is really easy to read. Ordering Tires on the Internet is the only way to go. You would think they would put the tire in a Box? :w00t: They just ship the tire by itself :innocent: :banana:
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Top