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Discussion Starter #61
Now that sounds more like the unintended acceleration software kicking in. Are you a two footed driver or really fast from brake to throttle / former street racer? :) If so that is probably your cause and there will probably never be a fix for that. I am a two footed driver and every now and then I still get that software to kick in. I always had quick reaction times and I am just too fast. HATE it but have not found a way around it.
Thanks for the info.

So I think (again just conjecture) we have at least 3 different scenarios that can trigger the same obserable symptom.

1) ESC kicks in and you lose all power for about 2 seconds. (So far have only duped it myself by the Pothole of Death, and one possible wild hairpin turn at high acceleration).

2) Downshift delay issue thingy.

3) Unintended acceleration thingy. In my case I know for a fact never had foot on brake. But in these cases, I'm fairly certain I needed acceleration "now", vs. "normal" (in #2 only had happen once).

The puzzling part (to me) is that nobody seems to have this on the 2016 models (or earlier). And either way, still sounds eerily like the V6 SF LWB TSB that I *think* was fixed via reprogramming the TCM module (but I don't have access to the TSB anymore, nor do I know what exactly the code changes/etc. were/are).

Perhaps I'm more careful now with accelerations (either consciously or sub-consciously), but have definitely had #1 happen 4 times in total now (3 times with a particular pothole, but I've been purposely trying to dupe it after the first time and even then it's extremely difficult to do so as you have to hit it at just the right speed).

Too bad none of this gets recorded in the computer anywhere, and apparently even with a "recorder" I doubt it'll show up because the tech I spoke to said it only records things where the vehicle is NOT operating properly. So if Hyundai programmed something to behave this way (ala: SFS V6 LWB issue), it'll never show up in a log anywhere. Not sure how Hyundai figured out the V6 issue (maybe they drove a bunch around until they observed it and then had special engineering stuff that dealers don't have access to to figure it out).
 

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Ah, see. We know our own kind. I did a fair amount of street racing in my youth (All statutes of limitations expired LONG ago) so I kind of guessed you might at least be fast on the pedals. What I really miss is being able to apply both pedals (Not power braking but VERY light throttle application) during more precise / spirited driving or as needed in normal driving to minimize reaction time. That's the one habit that is REALLY hard to break and that software is just merciless when you try to do that....

Statue of limitations can be a good thing sometimes. ;)


But those days are long gone for me too. Every now and then my 3 year old will laugh and say "Daddy, that was fun!" if I do a little spirited acceleration. Maybe an expensive hobby will be in his future too. :)
 

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<< Perhaps I'm more careful now with accelerations (either consciously or sub-consciously), but have definitely had #1 happen 4 times in total now (3 times with a particular pothole, but I've been purposely trying to dupe it after the first time and even then it's extremely difficult to do so as you have to hit it at just the right speed). >>

MJ....Probably duplicating a prior post in this long thread, but.....If you think about it there is far more in play that just hitting it at the right speed. For the traction or stability control to kick in you also have to consider that the suspension must act appropriately to create the wheel spin or vehicle side slip that triggers one or both of the systems. Thus your angle of attack to the pothole (Perhaps even the shape / depth of the pothole where you hit it) as well as road speed and throttle application (Acceleration requested / rate of acceleration requested versus at idle or perhaps a light throttle acceleration), and even the tire size and tire itself all come into play. That could easily be why some people feel this and some don't. There are actually a lot of variables. I would think that a washboard type of road surface would be the easiest place to induce what you are experiencing. It surprises me that a single pothole would do it

The same is also true of any "repair." Might be done with a software change to make one or both of the systems less aggressive. Might be done by changing spring rates or shock absorber dampening. But with each change would come trade offs that might or might not be desirable and that thus might or might not ever be implemented even if you demonstrated the condition.

I also think you are correct about at least three different items in play, each of which or in any combination could be the root cause for you but not for a different owner and vice-versa. .
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Well had it happen twice more with the ESC light blinking for quite a while this time (going straight, no less).

There's a "lip" to pull out of a parking lot onto the road (like a driveway, guessing maybe 1").

Two weeks ago, NO traffic, so I mosied and took my time pulling out. Around 1500 rpm. As soon as my back tires hit the lip, power cut to the engine and I "limped" along for a good quarter of a mile (straight) while the ESC sat there blinking the whole time.

Last week, same thing, although there was traffic, so I couldn't mosey, but no need to stomp on the gas pedal either.

Making an appointment this week to take car in (will have to be 2 separate appointments, more than likely, one for the oil change/tire rotation and another for when I can get a loaner vehicle as I'm sure it'll take them several days to dupe this, if at all). there's no reason, IMO for the ESC to be that picky/touchy. And I still think this sounds identical to the LWB V6 ESC issue that Hyundai did issue a TSB fix for. They just seem to refuse to acknowledge the issue on anything else.

So not even pulling out slowly can prevent it now. sigh.
 

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I have an appointment with a tech to demonstrate the issue, tomorrow. There is a place near my house where it happens 100% of the time when turning left through an intersection. I'll report back what they say.
 

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I was able to reproduce the problem several times, as well as get the tech to reproduce it. The shop foreman also reproduced it, in my vehicle as well as a new undelivered vehicle on the lot. They completely, unreservedly agreed this was happening.

They found no codes or other evidence in the vehicle that something is "wrong" , and spoke with Hyundai Canada tech line. Apparently, this is the first report of this issue they say they have had. The official response I got was: "Despite the undesirable nature of the symptom, we have concluded that this is an as-designed characteristic of the vehicle and there is no fix available at this time. If one becomes available in the future, you will be notified."

To reproduce this, you simply drive the vehicle, so the rear wheels drop a couple inches off a ledge or into rough pavement or a pot hole, with the wheel turned WHILE the rear wheels drop. If the wheel is straightened out by the time the wheels drop, then it doesn't happen. If you are not on the gas then it doesn't happen.

I will look into designing a simple test with a block of wood to demo this.

Anyway... The first step in solving a problem is acknowledgement of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
I was able to reproduce the problem several times, as well as get the tech to reproduce it. The shop foreman also reproduced it, in my vehicle as well as a new undelivered vehicle on the lot. They completely, unreservedly agreed this was happening.

They found no codes or other evidence in the vehicle that something is "wrong" , and spoke with Hyundai Canada tech line. Apparently, this is the first report of this issue they say they have had. The official response I got was: "Despite the undesirable nature of the symptom, we have concluded that this is an as-designed characteristic of the vehicle and there is no fix available at this time. If one becomes available in the future, you will be notified."

To reproduce this, you simply drive the vehicle, so the rear wheels drop a couple inches off a ledge or into rough pavement or a pot hole, with the wheel turned WHILE the rear wheels drop. If the wheel is straightened out by the time the wheels drop, then it doesn't happen. If you are not on the gas then it doesn't happen.

I will look into designing a simple test with a block of wood to demo this.

Anyway... The first step in solving a problem is acknowledgement of it.
Awesome, thanks for the info. What you describe is what I have happen (at least when the ESC light is flashing). Pothole, "lip" of a curb/driveway. We thought as much that they'd say "it's as designed". But then again they "designed" the LWB V6 similarly and had enough complaints that they issued a TSB to fix it (I'm pretty sure it was an ESC issue that caused the same observed affects). WHY they are so reluctant to address the SWB I don't know.

Does anyone know if the NHTSA reports get sent to Hyundai? There's pages of complaints about this exact issue (on the SWB now as well) on the NHTSA website. Although you're in Canada, so I doubt the NHTSA applies to you and probably Hyundai Canada is separate from the US division.

I know myself and others have brought this to the attention of Hyundai consumer affairs in the US. Although I've got my appointment for next week (assuming a loaner comes in) as I can't dupe it as easily as others.

But I'm glad you could dupe it and so could they on at least 2 vehicles. Maybe there's hope someday.
 

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You folks have it right. The balance of you with this condition and can demonstrate it need to get to your Dealers. The more verified complaints they receive the more attention this will get. I still do not follow how it can be so prevalent for some of you and then not for others. It would be interesting to see if there is a pattern to which engine, what size tires and wheels, etc.. There has to be something more common among those that have it. The roads in my area are not at all good and I have rarely if ever felt this except for when I tried to induce it.

Actually....Looking back at the posts I see a lot of 2.0T engines listed, although many of the posts are from a select few. I wonder if this is a 2.0T issue only? Software might be different due to the different torque and horsepower ratings?
 

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It's definitely only AWD models since it's over sensitivity to rear wheel slip triggering it.

This weekend I am going to test my theory that simply driving off a piece of 2x lumber under the rear wheels while turning will cause this. If so, then it'll be super super easy to demonstrate to dealers for anyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #70
It's definitely only AWD models since it's over sensitivity to rear wheel slip triggering it.

This weekend I am going to test my theory that simply driving off a piece of 2x lumber under the rear wheels while turning will cause this. If so, then it'll be super super easy to demonstrate to dealers for anyone.
Since mine doesn't happen all the time (now i can't get it to happen from that one parking lot), I wonder if speed/acceleration also has something to do with it (ie, this one's too cold, this one's too hot, this one's "just right").

Wonder if I can get my dealership to talk to your dealership so that at least a US-based dealer can maybe send this info to Hyundai US. I know Fondupot had his dealership dupe the issue, but he's gotten rid of his SFS since then so I'm fairly certain Hyundai US has been notified, but I don't know the extent of what they were able to do with it.
 

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^^^ http://www.sphyundai.com

The service manager is good to work with and he is aware. Also, the shop foreman replicated his himself as well.

You have to be applying throttle. You have to be turning while the wheel drops, i.e. not have straightened out the wheel by then. Not sure if it's steering angle dependant or just wheel speed differential in the rear due to sharp turn, like at an intersection or pulling out of a parking lot. It's worse under light throttle than heavy throttle, and by worse I mean the TC kicks on for longer. This is not stability control, is just the traction control.

Temperature doesn't matter. Did it in -20C and the other day in +20C.

There is a parking lot at the Lowe's near my place where the concrete gutter is raised from the road surface by a couple inches, and when you drive over that and the rear wheel or wheels drop to the road surface while turning out, it happens ever single time as long as the wheel is still turned when the rears drop off. The tech did laps around the lot repeating it over and over. Said it's the weirdest thing he's ever seen a Hyundai do.
 

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Please take it to the dealer and give them the same steps to reproduce. Ideally, fine e a place where you can reproduce the issue, then take a tech for a drive, demonstrate it, have them do it too then contact Hyundai Canada. Maybe more complaints about this will increase likelihood of a fix...
 

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Just an update on this, which I also posted in another thread:

During a recent visit to the dealer, I was informed that "Hyundai Canada" (Probably Hyundai corporate, but whatever) has a software fix for the traction control issues in progress, but not available yet. They specifically list the various traction control issues and claim this will fix it. The techs at this dealer have seen many instances of this now and everyone seems to agree it's an issue, and that a fix is imminent since it shows up in their system.

This is great news indeed!

They claim they'll contact me right away when it becomes available, which I assume will be soon or they wouldn't have it in their system as pending. If we are lucky, this will also improve shifting issues as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Just an update on this, which I also posted in another thread:

During a recent visit to the dealer, I was informed that "Hyundai Canada" (Probably Hyundai corporate, but whatever) has a software fix for the traction control issues in progress, but not available yet. They specifically list the various traction control issues and claim this will fix it. The techs at this dealer have seen many instances of this now and everyone seems to agree it's an issue, and that a fix is imminent since it shows up in their system.

This is great news indeed!

They claim they'll contact me right away when it becomes available, which I assume will be soon or they wouldn't have it in their system as pending. If we are lucky, this will also improve shifting issues as well.
thanks and let us know if/when you get it and possibly, what the TSB or whatever number is (may not do any good for us in the US, but you never know).
 

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Engine, transmission, tires, wheel, trim level that may affect suspension....Keep in mind that even if two vehicles are optioned the same the factory software may or may not be the same..... Maybe a slightly different shock absorber/ strut or spring due to a change in suppliers during a model year production run......The list is almost endless.....It is very difficult to compare vehicles as apples to apples any longer because there may be differences you cannot see.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Engine, transmission, tires, wheel, trim level that may affect suspension....Keep in mind that even if two vehicles are optioned the same the factory software may or may not be the same..... Maybe a slightly different shock absorber/ strut or spring due to a change in suppliers during a model year production run......The list is almost endless.....It is very difficult to compare vehicles as apples to apples any longer because there may be differences you cannot see.
Agreed. We don't have enough full data points either.

Not everyone has filled out their profile completely on this forum, and the NHTSA website lumps (just like Hyundai sales does) the Santa Fe in with the SFS for reporting purposes.

The LWB had (IMO) an identical issue that for some reason only affected the V6 (or at least Hyundai only released a fix for the V6).

Even though I have the issue, I can't duplicate it 100% of the time. I have a decent chance outside the grocery store parking lot that enters onto a main traffic area.

Plus, people may not notice it, or report it, or it happens so rarely, it's not worth it. I'm still semi-convinced it's more prone on the AWD 2.0T models on the 2017 SFS vs. the other trims.

But it sounds like Hyundai is at least aware of it now and maybe has a possible fix (short of shutting off the ESC).
 

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My dealership sent me a copy of a TSB dated "July 2017" which *appears* to be a fix for this issue? I'm waiting to buy until there is a solution. TSB 17-BR-002. Not sure how to upload a copy here. The meaningful part says, "This bulletin describes the procedure to update the Traction Control System (TCS) logic on some 2017-2018MY Santa Fe Sport (AN) 2.0T and Santa Fe (NC) 3.3L vehicles. This update helps reduce unnecessary TCS engagement during low speed/dry road acceleration." Please let me know if anyone has had this installed, and hope it is the fix for those who have the issue :)
 

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Discussion Starter #80
My dealership sent me a copy of a TSB dated "July 2017" which *appears* to be a fix for this issue? I'm waiting to buy until there is a solution. TSB 17-BR-002. Not sure how to upload a copy here. The meaningful part says, "This bulletin describes the procedure to update the Traction Control System (TCS) logic on some 2017-2018MY Santa Fe Sport (AN) 2.0T and Santa Fe (NC) 3.3L vehicles. This update helps reduce unnecessary TCS engagement during low speed/dry road acceleration." Please let me know if anyone has had this installed, and hope it is the fix for those who have the issue :)
I hope that's the fix. I'll have to call and schedule an appointment. Not sure if I say "I want TSB BLAH BLAH", or if I just say that the ESC/TCS is engaging inappropriately.
 
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