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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,
I just joined this forum because of this issue.

I have a 2006 Hyundai Sonata. The other day the check engine light came on when I started the car. It started really rough a couple times and then finally started normal and I was able to drive it to the dealer(check engine light still on). The dealer called and told me that the following codes were being presented(P2106 P1295 P161B) and that they would have to "reflash the computer" in order to clear the codes. When I went to pick up the car, they tried to charge me $95 for labor to perform the procedure. The car has 71k miles, but I had purchased an extended warranty for 100k/10yr (not the powertrain one that comes with the car, this one cost quite a bit extra when I purchased the car). The service manager insisted that this computer issue was not covered under warranty because it was wear and tear. I refused to pay it and complained to the owner of the dealership and walked away with my car without having to pay the $95 one hour labor charge.

Has anyone ever heard of this "reflash the computer" repair method? I'm not finding very much in any of the forums.

Also, I'm open to comments and opinions if such a thing should be covered under a warranty or not. I must have been right or they wouldn't have let me take the car without paying it (right?). I'm just trying to find out if my dealer is being fair or trying to nickel and dime me. The guy is always asking if he can keep my car overnight to "test drive" it. Even when my brake light sensor was replaced. Thank you for your time.
 

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No Dealer will usually admit your Car beyond the Service Desk without a signature, and no diagnostic charges are covered under Warranty,

as the Dealer does not check stuff for free. If it is a covered componenet then the item would be repaired at no charge.

Also your "Extended Warranty" will not cover diagnostic services. I would almost guarantee that you will not be allowed to use that

service facility anymore as you basically obtained services and then stole your Car. Similar to the 'Dine & Dash'.
 

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QUOTE (Son of Ata @ Oct 6 2010, 10:04 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=361478
Hi,
I just joined this forum because of this issue.

I have a 2006 Hyundai Sonata. The other day the check engine light came on when I started the car. It started really rough a couple times and then finally started normal and I was able to drive it to the dealer(check engine light still on). The dealer called and told me that the following codes were being presented(P2106 P1295 P161B) and that they would have to "reflash the computer" in order to clear the codes. When I went to pick up the car, they tried to charge me $95 for labor to perform the procedure. The car has 71k miles, but I had purchased an extended warranty for 100k/10yr (not the powertrain one that comes with the car, this one cost quite a bit extra when I purchased the car). The service manager insisted that this computer issue was not covered under warranty because it was wear and tear. I refused to pay it and complained to the owner of the dealership and walked away with my car without having to pay the $95 one hour labor charge.

Has anyone ever heard of this "reflash the computer" repair method? I'm not finding very much in any of the forums.
I reflash PCM everyday... for the codes you posted, the correct repair is replacement of Throttle Position Sensor with
35107-3C100-FFF, and update PCM program with the latest program in the pop up menu, titled NF 3.3 UCM UPGRADE...This is assuming you have the V6... You did not call out the engine size in your post, or in your "DRIVES" part of your information.......


Also, I'm open to comments and opinions if such a thing should be covered under a warranty or not. I must have been right or they wouldn't have let me take the car without paying it (right?). I'm just trying to find out if my dealer is being fair or trying to nickel and dime me. The guy is always asking if he can keep my car overnight to "test drive" it. Even when my brake light sensor was replaced. Thank you for your time.


Do the repair as I have written above, and run VIN on WEBDCS for open campaigns..

In most instance, repair is a 5/60 item, 1hr diag time, add for part and repair labors

If you have some sort of extended warranty, then you need to find out if that particular item is indeed covered by that contract.. If HPP, then advisor can simply log into WEBDCS and check part number as to if it is covered or not...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi NFV6, Thanks ??? I didn't steal my car. As I said, I complained to the owner of the dealership and was able to take the car without having to pay the charge.


Hi SBR711, thanks for answering my questions. The last time the check engine light came on(6 months ago), they replaced the Throttle Position Sensor. So why would these codes show up again that say to do it? Maybe they never did it last time and just cleared the codes ? By the way, no charge at all last time to fix the Throttle Position Sensor with over 65k miles on the car. So why the charge for the Reflash? Just for sanity, if the car had only 20k miles and this happened, do you think it would be covered? A warranty is a warranty. I paid a good deal of money to the dealer for it when I bought the car. What diagnostics are involved to check the codes ? I could just go to advanced auto parts and have them do it for free anyway.
 

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I believe in the power of complaining. But don't think they wont remember you, and possibly charge you more next time?

The reason Hyundai can offer a bumper to bumper 60K Policy is they don't. And the ESC/VSC you bought isn't bumper to bumper either.

SBR would not perform that work for free, without a signed R/O. Think of it like your Medical Insurance Co Pay, Co Deductible, Co Ins...

And I know you didn't steal your Car :p , but keep in mind diagnostic work is never free, Warranty or not, at least with Car Dealers! :57:
 

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QUOTE (rallyman @ Oct 6 2010, 09:28 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=361661
I don't know how your dealer works but I have never been charged a diagnostic fee on a warranty repair.
Yeah but that is not what I said, and perhaps its a Canadian thing. When you bring in your Car to most Dealers in my Country,

they would be happy to take a look at any problem you have. You in turn sign a Repair Order and authorize a minimal shop charge.

This is normal protocol. If the item is under warranty, the Dealer charges the factory for the repair and fixes your car no charge. Many times

it is much more than just reading a code, but diagnosing the fault. That is how the Mechanic and shop get paid. Of course you are also

entitled to a free estimate of charges before any repairs are done, and must authorize any work done in virtually every State I know of. This is

how it works, and has for years. In Canada you get a Comprehensive 5 year Warranty, while we get a less comprehensive Limited 10 Year

policy. Perhaps Dealers are just nicer North of the Border?
 

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QUOTE (Son of Ata @ Oct 6 2010, 03:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=361588
The last time the check engine light came on(6 months ago), they replaced the Throttle Position Sensor.
Have a look at your invoice you got when you picked up the car .... is there a 35107-3C100-FFF sensor posted on the ticket ?

So why would these codes show up again that say to do it?
There is actually a newer TSB with overlapping codes and added code that came out no too long ago, they overlap in most respects, but the revised TSB tells you to use the latest available program as listed in menu when doing ECM upgrade.. they may have done the "2135" LOGIC upgrade as told to in earlier TSB, and left the NF 3.3 ECM UPGRADE pass... where the new TSB says to use he NF 3.3 ECM UPGRADE as it is the most current... need to get them to verify they used the most current update as called out in latest TSB (ROM numbers posted in TSB also, but when they select the upgrade, if it has already been done, box will pop up saying it already has latest version completed..

Maybe they never did it last time and just cleared the codes ?
Unknown, I would verify PCM up to date, and that it has correct TPS installed

By the way, no charge at all last time to fix the Throttle Position Sensor with over 65k miles on the car.
Ok

So why the charge for the Reflash?
Maybe they did the "2135" (old program) and trying to sell you the latest version... They gots to pay tech to do it right, or you have a dead blank PCM with a no-start, then gots to waste time to force the program into the ROM

Just for sanity, if the car had only 20k miles and this happened, do you think it would be covered?
5yr/60,000 mile, thats a given

A warranty is a warranty.
Warranty is only good for the items described wherein that the warranty will cover.. Bumper to Bumper--> anything on the car that is due to materials and workmanship, not modification, crash damage, normal wear (tires, gas, oil, brake pads/clutch disc).. read the fine print

I paid a good deal of money to the dealer for it when I bought the car.
Clark Howard does not like extened warranty things..

What diagnostics are involved to check the codes ?
Question is kinda backwards -- obtain scanner, plug into On Board Diagnostic port, VIN search to ID vehicle/engine, select module, scan module to obtain any DTC, research TSB, manuals, current data, circuit testing if needed to find if it is a bum part of electric circuit concern, then base the repair of info gathered.

I could just go to advanced auto parts and have them do it for free anyway.
Yea, you can go to store and a clerk scan, give you the numbers, but the fella sure has never sat through any manufacture' training courses for scan tool, driveability, advanced emission, electrical courses now have they ?? I been through Toyota to 2002, Nissan in 2003, Kia from 2004-2006, and all Hyundai currently has to offer.. Who more qualified to diag your OBD-II concerns now ?



I'll post pics later of the proper TPS body, and of the programs' screen shots if I have them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
SBR711,
All excellent information. You are obviously quite knowledgeable as well as kind enough to take the time to look this stuff up and respond. I'll take all of your suggestions back to my dealer and I'll sound like I know what I'm talking about. I appreciate all of your help. Now this was a service worth paying for that doesn't show up in any kind of warranty. Thanks again, Son(of)ata.
 

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Why not send SBR the $95. He is worth it. :thumbsup: Honestly so was that other Tech that did the same work for you and went unpaid. :innocent:
 

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Pics for fun --

Pic 1 - old TPS (note body shape)

Pic 2 - new TPS alone

Pic 3 - new on left, old on right (note body shape)

Pic 4 - new TPS mounted to throttle body

Pic 5 - screenshot of the upgrade (I do not have NF Sonata currently),,, when in Sonata upgrade for 2006, you will get the "2135" (old TSB) and the "ECM UPGRADE" (latsest greatest that Hyundai made recent TSB for 2106/161 code) that they want to be installed... DO NOT USE THE "2135" choice anymore !!

NOTE that is says AZERA, the program number is different for Sonata, but you can plainly see the 2 choices here, this car was in for TPS for 1st time, so I finish with the "ECM UPGRADE" selection... If your car already has the "2135"... it will only offer up the "ECM UPRADE"... If the "ECM UPGRADE", then it will pop up module "upgrade is already completed"..

Forgot to add --> Let me know how the educated customer makes out with service aisle person, tech, Manager and dealer principle.... hopefully it all work out for you.
 

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My 2010 Santa Fe has the hard shifting problem when it's cold and especially in cold weather. Sometimes it feels like someone has hit the back of the car. It has 95,000 miles. Should I have the tranny flushed and filled or possibly have the computer re-flashed? What is the average cost of the re-flash? I have no check engine light or codes checking with my scan tool. Thanks!
 
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