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Discussion Starter #1
Hello to all.

My car is Elantra 2002. 1.6 GLS wirh LPG at 233000 km. Recently due to errors codes of MAP and TPS I replaced both of them along with spark plug (for LPG) and a new air filter.

Reason was hard cold starting, with turning off, 3-4 times until it started working half ok.

Result is a sporadic Idle oscillation upto 4000 RPM. Checked for vacuum leaks and nothing.

After replacing all mentioned my car stopped working at gas (on pedal press bogs down and does not accelerate) so I changed a fuel pump. It works but still does not accept gas. I cleaned the throttle body and currently am waiting for the IAC to change that also.

Any ideas?

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Discussion Starter #2
Update...



I replaced IAC valve, cleaned PCV valve.



Result is the same.



Cannot drive on gasoline, car bogs down on trottle while a new problem appeared while using LPG, car starts to stall and work on 3 cylinders while trying to accelerate.



Any ideas anyone?

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Have you used a diagnostic scan tool to check the MAP & TPS output signals?

The MAP signal is the primary value used by the engine control computer to calculate how much fuel needs to be injected. When the MAP sensor fails the computer will substitute the MAP value with a value calculated from the TPS signal. If there is a problem with both those sensors the computer has no way of calculating the correct amount of fuel that needs to be injected which would almost certainly result in the engine bogging down.

TPS output should be approx 0.5Volts with the throttle pedal at rest, increasing to approx 4.5V at WOT (Wide Open Throttle)
MAP output should equal the ambient atmospheric pressure when the engine is off (ignition on)...approx 1000mb/100kpa (near sea level), and should drop to approx 400mb/40kpa with the engine at idle.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Have you used a diagnostic scan tool to check the MAP & TPS output signals?

The MAP signal is the primary value used by the engine control computer to calculate how much fuel needs to be injected. When the MAP sensor fails the computer will substitute the MAP value with a value calculated from the TPS signal. If there is a problem with both those sensors the computer has no way of calculating the correct amount of fuel that needs to be injected which would almost certainly result in the engine bogging down.

TPS output should be approx 0.5Volts with the throttle pedal at rest, increasing to approx 4.5V at WOT (Wide Open Throttle)
MAP output should equal the ambient atmospheric pressure when the engine is off (ignition on)...approx 1000mb/100kpa (near sea level), and should drop to approx 400mb/40kpa with the engine at idle.
I replaced the MAP.

Will check with multimeter.

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Discussion Starter #8
Some new development..

I unplugged the purge canister solenoid and shaked it. Afterwards I mamaged to drive a few miles only on gasoline.

Can a Stuck valve cause all these problemski?

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brush the battery terminals contact surface

then check the engine when idling, if you feel the running is not smoothly, any cylinder is not working or working poorly, check spark plug and ignition, then the fuel injector. You can just switch them to different cylinder and see if it works

Then the last thing is the fuel pump, if you have starting problem, turn the key to on for 10 sec then start, if no hesitation then it's poorly pump
 

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Discussion Starter #10
brush the battery terminals contact surface

then check the engine when idling, if you feel the running is not smoothly, any cylinder is not working or working poorly, check spark plug and ignition, then the fuel injector. You can just switch them to different cylinder and see if it works

Then the last thing is the fuel pump, if you have starting problem, turn the key to on for 10 sec then start, if no hesitation then it's poorly pump
Forgot to mention. I have also replaced the fuel pump.

Yesterday I unplugged the purge canister solenoid and shook it a bit, tried blowing through, seemed stuck.

Afterwards I hooked it back on and drove on gasoline for 5 kms without any problems. Stopped, turned off and on several times without problems. Switched to LPG and all of as sudded same problem.

Seems like a purge canister managed to resolve (partially). I am ordering the purge canister valve, O2 sensor on cat and a knock sensor which repeateadly shows P0326 error (with misfires).

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Don't know the in's and out's of driving a dual fuel car
You are using one system to drive while using two fuels
Amazing.

I am just wondering, ...
Do you need to use an Evap system if you are using LPG??
Also, what kind of tuning is needed for using LPG (timing, ignition, how LPG is fed to cylinders)??
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Don't know the in's and out's of driving a dual fuel car
You are using one system to drive while using two fuels
Amazing.

I am just wondering, ...
Do you need to use an Evap system if you are using LPG??
Also, what kind of tuning is needed for using LPG (timing, ignition, how LPG is fed to cylinders)??
Yes, in general they are separated. But as the Evap system is general to both, PCV valve, purge valve and canister are dependant. The gasoline branch symptoms were more or less separated but few days baci even on LPG it started to loose power, work on 3 cylinders. CEL blinking, when stops and stays on the car starts to raise RPM (as a Huge vacuum leak) and works erratically. If I clear the codes, it starts working normally for the next 20 km but on 3 cylnds.

I reveived a MAP sensor pressure OBD code, pressure builds up. Some valve is sticking, I hope it is purge solenoid.

I am ordering o2 sensor (pre-cat), purge valve soleonid and PCV valve along with knock sensor (constant P0326 code reappearing).

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes, in general they are separated. But as the Evap system is general to both, PCV valve, purge valve and canister are dependant. The gasoline branch symptoms were more or less separated but few days baci even on LPG it started to loose power, work on 3 cylinders. CEL blinking, when stops and stays on the car starts to raise RPM (as a Huge vacuum leak) and works erratically. If I clear the codes, it starts working normally for the next 20 km but on 3 cylnds.

I reveived a MAP sensor pressure OBD code, pressure builds up. Some valve is sticking, I hope it is purge solenoid.

I am ordering o2 sensor (pre-cat), purge valve soleonid and PCV valve along with knock sensor (constant P0326 code reappearing).

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Anyone nas a comment? :(

Seems the oil consumption has also gone up drastically.

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Discussion Starter #14
New info.

Changed camshaft and knock sensor. Changed evap solenoid.

Now stil cannot run on gasoline (bogs) and stil misfires on all cylinder. Mechanical issue?

Any ideas?

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Have you ruled out fuel delivery issues by testing pressure as close to the engine as possible? Would be nice to find out pressure drop after injector pulse as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Have you ruled out fuel delivery issues by testing pressure as close to the engine as possible? Would be nice to find out pressure drop after injector pulse as well.
Will have to test. Fuel pump was changed but maybe clogged to the evap canister part or the pressure regulator is on problems.

Will check.

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So far you've replaced :
Fuel Pump
IAC Valve
MAP Sensor
TP Sensor
Cam Sensor
Knock Sensor
O2 Sensor
Purge Solenoid

Mechanical issue?
The idea is you diagnose the problem and that tells you what the issue is.
You don't just throw random parts at the problem and hope it goes away.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So far you've replaced :
Fuel Pump
IAC Valve
MAP Sensor
TP Sensor
Cam Sensor
Knock Sensor
O2 Sensor
Purge Solenoid


The idea is you diagnose the problem and that tells you what the issue is.
You don't just throw random parts at the problem and hope it goes away.
Thank you for you comment.

The replaced parts were trigerred on OBD2 at least 3 times during a 2-3 months period.

Sorry to say the car was more or less not being serviced correctly at least 1,5-2 years (30000 km or more) so a lot of affected issues occured.

The main issue was hard starting on gasoline and after replacing air filter and spark plugs followed the isdued more or less dedcribed.

As one sensor (especially emmision related ones) often pulls other emmision for replacment I have evaded to replace them for now.

Current status is:

Gasoline driving not working
On LPG the fuel consumption is 2x up thank regular
More oil consumption
Car surging when hot and accelerates only with pedal is presses to the floor

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What steps have you taken to try and diagnose the problem?
What tests have you done and what were the results?
Are there any trouble codes being logged now after replacing the MAP & TPS?
If there is, check the freeze frame data that relates to the codes and share it with us.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
What steps have you taken to try and diagnose the problem?
What tests have you done and what were the results?
Are there any trouble codes being logged now after replacing the MAP & TPS?
If there is, check the freeze frame data that relates to the codes and share it with us.
A vacuum and a smoke test was done due to the fact that earlier problems were directed toward a leak. Still oscillations when monitoring.

A spark plug test was done (old and new spark plugs), cables checked. In order.

OBD codes during a 3 months period were trigerred for MAP sensor (P0105) , TPS sensor (P1123, numerous times), knock sensor (the most often P0326) and after replacemenent have not appeared again.

Fuel pump was replaced due to the fact that the car would not start on gasoline or poorly accepted throttle, now the pump is working but the throttle response is the same (relay and fuse are in order). Flow is OK but haven't yet managed to check the pressure flow.

O2 sensor was outputing a huge difference in short and long term bank up to 25/-25 and now seems the sensor stopped working as OBD code P0134 and P1127 appear.

O2 sensor now reads 0 (plugged and unplugged) and an offer earlier code was also P0112 but have not managed to correlate it to anything but does not appear anymore.

When monitoring the 3 different OBD modules seems to be experiencing disruptions in monitoring as every few seconds the connections drops and starts again. ECU? (Fuses OK).

PCV valve was cleaned and hoses checked. IAC was never changed, was unable to clean it after manifold and throttle cleaning).

Purge solenoid was checked for pressure, replaced as the car after dismantling the hoses and solenoid started to work flawlessly over 20 km on gasoline. Could not repeat the same, replaced it but now the throttle does not respond at all on gasoline. Obstacle in fuel system due to the fact the pump has seized (checked with electricity) .

Filter in tank very hard to get by here, it was cleaned and a pressure regulator is still under suspicion.

Car starts only on LPG as on gasoline I cannot keep it running. After warming up RPMs also rise and a rough idle and driving on 3 cylinders occurs when the car only responds to the full throttle to run regularly.

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