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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
...And if so, was there a marked difference /improvement? I've seen posts about attempts to improve performance and it would seem to me the simplest would to be try premium gas, the other would be to replace the stock filter with a K&N in the stock air box, however I don't believe K&N has one *yet*.
 

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QUOTE (Doc_V @ Apr 24 2010, 09:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316501
...And if so, was there a marked difference /improvement? I've seen posts about attempts to improve performance and it would seem to me the simplest would to be try premium gas, the other would be to replace the stock filter with a K&N in the stock air box, however I don't believe K&N has one *yet*.
Premium fuels are for cars with higher compression ratio of 10:1 or higher. 2011 sonata is considered at the low end of the spectrum since it has 11.3:1 ratio. Before this kind of ratio would require premium fuel or else the gas would ignite before the piston goes all the way up. They have found a way to use regular 87 gas on these type of compression ratios with the addition of variable valve timing and knock sensors to delay ignition timing. So in essence our car has a high enough compression ratio to take advantage of premium fuel which should result in more power and higher mpg but the ecu chip has made it so it can use regular. If the chip does not have the ability to change its timing automatically when u put premium it will be a waste of money and there will be no benefits. so u need two things to qualify a car to benefit from it 1. higher compression ratio 2. ecu chip able to change timings automatically. this car meets criteria number 1 but not sure about number 2

my other car mazda 6 does have a chip that can change the timings but its compression ratio is like 9.6:1 so there is no benefit at all and actually gets worse power and mpg when others tried it. Theres potential for this car to use it and benefit
 

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QUOTE (Doc_V @ Apr 24 2010, 09:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316501
...And if so, was there a marked difference /improvement? I've seen posts about attempts to improve performance and it would seem to me the simplest would to be try premium gas, the other would be to replace the stock filter with a K&N in the stock air box, however I don't believe K&N has one *yet*.
My VW, CC VR6 has a compression rate of 11:1. Volkswagen says I can use regular or premium but using the higher octane gas will improve performance. My VW currently has 8,500 miles on it and I now use nothing but premium because the difference was very noticable.

That being said, try it and see what you think. You won't hurt your engine and it will only cost you a few bucks extra, which may be worth it in the end. Check the mileage before and after. Be sure to empty your tank as far as you dare before adding premium.

David <><
 

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one car that is very similar to the 2011 SE is the 2010 TSX 4 cyl.

2010 tsx -------------------------2011 Sonata

4 cylinders 2.4L-----------------4 cylinders 2.4L
HP: [email protected] 7000rpm------------- HP: 200 6300rpm
TQ: [email protected] 4300rpm------------- TQ: [email protected] 4250rpm
Compresssio Ratio--------------- Compression Ratio
11:1--------------------------------- 11:5
Premium gas-------------------------Regular gas
weight: 3486------------------------Weight: 3199 lbs
one can see both have same horspower with the 2011 developing it earlier at 6300rpm. similar Torque with the sonata winning out. same engine size and the compression ratio being a little higher on sonata yet it only requires regular fuel while the tsx with a lower compression ratio requires premium. Perhaps its because of the direct inject engine that the sonata doesnt require premium. probably what happened is that hyundai knows its target market enough to not require premium so they delayed the timing on the high compression engine (lowering hp and tq) so that it wont require premium.
 

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Akalucas, you are absolutely 100% correct. This is a debate that I found over the years people just refuse to change their minds on. they feel and believe that since they are paying more for gas, it must be better. As a rule not many understands that higher octane fuel is actually harder to burn/ignite and was designed to be that way to power the high compression engines. High octane, or "Premium" fuel does absolutely nothing to improve performance of a lower compression vehicle like our Sonata, or most cars today for that matter.
 

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QUOTE (BiXLL @ Apr 25 2010, 08:18 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316571
Akalucas, you are absolutely 100% correct. This is a debate that I found over the years people just refuse to change their minds on. they feel and believe that since they are paying more for gas, it must be better. As a rule not many understands that higher octane fuel is actually harder to burn/ignite and was designed to be that way to power the high compression engines. High octane, or "Premium" fuel does absolutely nothing to improve performance of a lower compression vehicle like our Sonata, or most cars to day for that matter.

Yes high octane is a complete waste of money in our car, because the ECU has no map for it, But...

just to clear 2 things up. High octane is NOT "harder" to burn. It just burns slower. It's like this
87octane: BANG!
93 octane: booooooooooom

And the Sonata is not what you would call a lower compression engine, i don't know of too many higher compression engine than it. Maybe 1 or 2.
 

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QUOTE (akalucas @ Apr 25 2010, 05:18 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316561
one car that is very similar to the 2011 SE is the 2010 TSX 4 cyl.

2010 tsx -------------------------2011 Sonata

4 cylinders 2.4L-----------------4 cylinders 2.4L
HP: [email protected] 7000rpm------------- HP: 200 6300rpm
TQ: [email protected] 4300rpm------------- TQ: [email protected] 4250rpm
Compresssio Ratio--------------- Compression Ratio
11:1--------------------------------- 11:5
Premium gas-------------------------Regular gas
weight: 3486------------------------Weight: 3199 lbs
one can see both have same horspower with the 2011 developing it earlier at 6300rpm. similar Torque with the sonata winning out. same engine size and the compression ratio being a little higher on sonata yet it only requires regular fuel while the tsx with a lower compression ratio requires premium. Perhaps its because of the direct inject engine that the sonata doesnt require premium. probably what happened is that hyundai knows its target market enough to not require premium so they delayed the timing on the high compression engine (lowering hp and tq) so that it wont require premium.
Not so sure the Sonata is 200 HP The 0-60 times compared to other comparable sedans don't correlate. Still a good engine but never saw a HP/Torque curve from even Hyundai. In this case the TSX is faster with 10% more weight.
 

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QUOTE (tCizzler @ Apr 25 2010, 08:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316578
And the Sonata is not what you would call a lower compression engine, i don't know of too many higher compression engine than it. Maybe 1 or 2.
When you compare it to the engines I worked with in the late 60s, it is a lower compression engine!
 

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QUOTE (akalucas @ Apr 25 2010, 01:47 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316513
Before this kind of ratio would require premium fuel or else the gas would ignite before the piston goes all the way up.
That is not entirely accurate. The gas always ignites before the piston goes all the up. That is intentional and is why the spark occurs 7-40 degrees before top dead center. The ping is caused by a secondary explosion that occurs inside the cylinder after the spark plug ignites the fuel air mixture. That explosion has a wave front that works its way across the cylinder. That wave front acts like a wall and compresses all the fuel on the other side. If that extra compression raises the temperature of the unburned fuel above its flash point, it will self detonate very much like a diesel. That's what causes the secondary explosion and in turn the ping.
QUOTE (tCizzler @ Apr 25 2010, 08:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316578
But just to clear 2 things up. High octane is NOT "harder" to burn. It just burns slower.
It definitely burns slower, but that is because high octane fuel IS harder to burn. It requires more "activation energy." That higher activation energy level means it needs more energy to explode and also means it has a higher flash point. And that is the whole key to not pinging. When the wave front compresses the unburned high octane fuel, it gets nearly as hot as the regular fuel. Even though it gets hot, it does not self ignite because it still remains below it's higher flashpoint.


The primary reason the Hyundia 2.4 has a high compression ratio but can still run on regular is because of the Direct Injection. DI cools the intake charge a lot. It cools it enough that even after that wave front compresses and heats the unburned regular fuel, it still remains below its flash point.
 

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QUOTE (Shoot2Thrill @ Apr 25 2010, 09:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316583
Not so sure the Sonata is 200 HP The 0-60 times compared to other comparable sedans don't correlate. Still a good engine but never saw a HP/Torque curve from even Hyundai. In this case the TSX is faster with 10% more weight.
The Hyundai has more torque, which is a tribute to the Direct Injection. However the Acura performs better because of the more advanced VTEC.
 

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OK, regardless of what you want to believe Premium Gas will not help you with better MPG - I tested (93 from shell) and it had no effect. Now using regular only and constantly getting over 35 MPG on the highway and 26-28 in the city... :thumbsup:
 

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QUOTE (BiXLL @ Apr 25 2010, 09:21 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316587
When you compare it to the engines I worked with in the late 60s, it is a lower compression engine!

OK, but the cars you worked on in the 60s have absolutely no relevance (probably high performance race cars). I have no idea what you worked on, but back then 10:1 was considered high compression in passenger cars, so i can only imagaine what 11.3:1 would've been considered.... 11.3:1 is without a doubt considered a high compression engine.
 

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QUOTE (tCizzler @ Apr 25 2010, 06:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316739
OK, but the cars you worked on in the 60s have absolutely no relevance (probably high performance race cars). I have no idea what you worked on, but back then 10:1 was considered high compression in passenger cars, so i can only imagaine what 11.3:1 would've been considered.... 11.3:1 is without a doubt considered a high compression engine.
LOL, OK you win. The 2011 Hyundai has a high compression engine!!!!!!
 

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QUOTE (Shoot2Thrill @ Apr 25 2010, 06:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316583
Not so sure the Sonata is 200 HP The 0-60 times compared to other comparable sedans don't correlate. Still a good engine but never saw a HP/Torque curve from even Hyundai. In this case the TSX is faster with 10% more weight.

QUOTE (Blue07 @ Apr 25 2010, 01:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316712
The Hyundai has more torque, which is a tribute to the Direct Injection. However the Acura performs better because of the more advanced VTEC.

NOt sure why you guys say the acura tsx 4 cyl performs better thant the sonata 4 cyl.

Automatic Times
Motor trend: sonata 0-60 8.1sec
Motor trend: tsx 0-60 8.4sec

insideline: sonata 0-60 7.7sec
insideline: tsx 0-60 8.6

c&d: sonata 7.8 sec

as you can see the average time for Sonata is 7.9 sec for the AUTOMATIC and for the TSX i only found two articles for times for the AUTOMATIC. they average 8.5 sec 0-60. This seems more accurate because the sonata does get to 200HP 700rpm sooner than the tsx and the sonata make 14lbs of torque more at 50rpm sooner. Not only that the sonata weighs 286lbs lighter. what prob happened is that you're comparing the MANUAL times to the AUTOMATIC times of the sonata. A quick look showed that the average for the tsx MAnual is 7.8 sec 0-60 and I only found one article for the manual for sonata which had the 0-60 at 7.5 sec
 

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QUOTE (akalucas @ Apr 25 2010, 06:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316744
NOt sure why you guys say the acura tsx 4 cyl performs better thant the sonata 4 cyl.

Automatic Times
Motor trend: sonata 0-60 8.1sec
Motor trend: tsx 0-60 8.4sec

insideline: sonata 0-60 7.7sec
insideline: tsx 0-60 8.6

c&d: sonata 7.8 sec

as you can see the average time for Sonata is 7.9 sec for the AUTOMATIC and for the TSX i only found two articles for times for the AUTOMATIC. they average 8.5 sec 0-60. This seems more accurate because the sonata does get to 200HP 700rpm sooner than the tsx and the sonata make 14lbs of torque more at 50rpm sooner. Not only that the sonata weighs 286lbs lighter. what prob happened is that you're comparing the MANUAL times to the AUTOMATIC times of the sonata. A quick look showed that the average for the tsx MAnual is 7.8 sec 0-60 and I only found one article for the manual for sonata which had the 0-60 at 7.5 sec


First, I am not here to sell anyone on a TSX. But I know that Honda's VTEC is really good. I also remembered reading the C&D article below in which the 2009 I4 TSX needed 6.7 seconds to hit 60 mph.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_sit...2027fe43a44.pdf

After reviewing it, I did see it was a manual transmission. In a Honda, that makes a difference. Knowing the auto will be slower, I found this 2009 C&D article:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/08...st_drive_review

It posted an estimated 0-60 time of 7.3 seconds. Granted it was not formally tested, but if the 2009 TSX manual is 6.7 seconds, it is very plausible the 2009 auto is 7.3 seconds compared to Hyundai's 7.8 seconds. That's the only reason I agreed the TSX was faster.
 

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QUOTE (Blue07 @ Apr 25 2010, 07:06 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316791
First, I am not here to sell anyone on a TSX. But I know that Honda's VTEC is really good. I also remembered reading the C&D article below in which the 2009 I4 TSX needed 6.7 seconds to hit 60 mph.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_sit...2027fe43a44.pdf

After reviewing it, I did see it was a manual transmission. In a Honda, that makes a difference. Knowing the auto will be slower, I found this 2009 C&D article:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/08...st_drive_review

It posted an estimated 0-60 time of 7.3 seconds. Granted it was not formally tested, but if the 2009 TSX manual is 6.7 seconds, it is very plausible the 2009 auto is 7.3 seconds compared to Hyundai's 7.8 seconds. That's the only reason I agreed the TSX was faster.
the gears on the manual of the tsx are super nice. taps a lot of power. strange how C&D reported a 6.7 sec and other mags reported around 7.8 sec avg when they tested the tsx manual (http://www.insideline.com/acura/tsx/2009/f...-acura-tsx.html). Consumers guide did it in 7.9 sec. Maybe C&D brake launched when they estimated the auto trans 0-60. One thing is for sure, insideline and motortrend actually tested the tsx auto and it got 8.4, 8.7, respectively. we were looking into these too but the trunk was just too small and unfortunately that back seats dont fold down either. we like to snowboard so we crossed that one out of our list
 

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If the tune is meant for high octane like a lot of cars putting in regular will give you worse MPG though for sure. There was actually a study done that showed that a car that required premium fuel had regular fuel put in it and the MPG went down by the same amount as the difference the person saved in using regular. Was pretty amazing.

What would be interesting is to see what sort of power this engine would make with a tune that used 93 octane. Could get a decent result out of that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A couple comments here lead me to believe that Hyundai may have deliberately "de-tuned" this motor in order to run on regular gas. If that is the case, is it plausible that in time, someone may come out with an updated engine mapping which would net an improvement in HP and or torque? Albeit, at the expense of lower gas milage and the requirement for higher octane fuel...
 

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QUOTE (Doc_V @ Apr 26 2010, 02:10 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=316862
A couple comments here lead me to believe that Hyundai may have deliberately "de-tuned" this motor in order to run on regular gas. If that is the case, is it plausible that in time, someone may come out with an updated engine mapping which would net an improvement in HP and or torque? Albeit, at the expense of lower gas milage and the requirement for higher octane fuel...
Yes it's possible and it more than likely won't lower the gas mileage, but it would require higher octane fuel.
 
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