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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I took my car to the local shop because the dealer wanted $300 to resurface rotors and front pads. The shop said I just needed pads so I had them do it.

I hear this faint whooshing/grinding sound when I brake from low speeds. I took it to another mechanic and the report says

Pads are new, check installation - OK, not unsafe

Brake Rotors have rusted edge, no lube on caliper slides... Causing Noise

Only Cure; Replace pads with premium set, new rotors, lube caliper slides and pads during installation


I talked to the service guy there and he said this won't hurt my calipers but could lead to increased pad wear.

Is the noise and increased wear the only issue or is there something urgent? thanks

btw I had no idea what a caliper slide was until today
 

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they may have used raybestas service grade. i've got them on 2 cars and they are noisy on both. but i'm getting good miles and performance out of them. things to worry about is excessive heat or burnt brake smell or pulling to one side when braking.
 

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The problem with pads on old rotors it may not work as well as new rotors and pads. Some pads are noisier than others due to the friction material/construction. Lubing the slides is extremely important and depending on the lube/grease that is used you get varying results.

In summary, noise indicates one or a combination of things. It may be not necessarily affect safety. I had a friend with Lexus had local shop install brakes and rotors using Napa parts. Not going to be like the original Lexus parts. After a year heard some noise when braking and bought a new Lexus. Got a little rust since vehicle sat or was washed which caused noise.

Quality parts and quality labor makes all the difference with brakes. My mechanic put pads on old rotors and it did not work. Had to get new rotors and pads to have no noise or pulsation.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The braking with these new pads are fine the only thing I notice is the added noise. I wish I knew to have them greased... but if there are no effects besides noise I am OK with it. Do you think I can let it go until next pad/rotor change?
 

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Pads are new, check installation - OK, not unsafe

Brake Rotors have rusted edge, no lube on caliper slides... Causing Noise

Only Cure; Replace pads with premium set, new rotors, lube caliper slides and pads during installation

I talked to the service guy there and he said this won't hurt my calipers but could lead to increased pad wear.

Is the noise and increased wear the only issue or is there something urgent? thanks

btw I had no idea what a caliper slide was until today
So based on his diagnosis it is safe. I can see how the shop says you need everything new. That is the only way to ensure no noise or comebacks and give a warranty.

I would be a little concerned if the slides bind due to little or no lubrication. But if you are only having noise that may diminish as the pads wear in. When I install new brake pads I break them in (bedding) like this:
https://www.cartalk.com/content/i-am-about-change-brake-pads-my

If you read the article it explains you can expect noise. The pads will be hitting that rusty ridge of the rotor. Some people grind that ridge off when installing pads to prevent noise. You may want to try some of the bedding procedure to see if it helps with noise.
 

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The braking with these new pads are fine the only thing I notice is the added noise. I wish I knew to have them greased... but if there are no effects besides noise I am OK with it. Do you think I can let it go until next pad/rotor change?
If it is a quick pad change they only need to remove old pads and put new ones in. You get what you pay for.

If the calipers start sticking then no. Those pins that are lubricated keep the brake pads floating freely so they will not bind. It does not seem like you are having those symptoms.

The main purpose of brakes is stopping. If you are stopping fine that is the main thing. Now if noise increases, you get pulsation in the pedal, or decreased braking I would get pads and rotors if it were mine.
 

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Stuck guide pins will make the pads stick to the rotor
It will cause one side of the pad to burn away quicker
Also, it will deform the rotor over time.

What should be done is to take the caliper off with the pads
On the caliper bracket which should still be on the car hold the guide pins
Try to release them from the bracket
Lube them and put them back
If they aren't stuck too much then whole thing should take about 30 minutes
For novice add another 30 minutes.
Check youtube videos to get better idea of what needs to be done
It will make the job easier and quicker
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thanks for all of the posts. I don't think the guide pins are stuck - wouldn't there be symptoms besides noise?

I think I will try and bed the pads in and if that doesn't reduce the noise I will just drive it and replace the rotors if it gets worse
 

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Just to play the Devil's advocate regarding lubing guide pins. I believe your original issue was pads had worn down and needed them replaced which sounded normal. Now those guide pins probably have the same amount of grease as they had before the pads were replaced. The only thing that changed was the pads and I am thinking that is the main source of the noise.

That is not to diminish the need for proper lube of those pins. I had a 94 Mazda (Ford) pick-up and it was required at 25k to lube the guide pins. I did not have a clue what they were back then. I used to lube them at 30k on my last car.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
yup my pads were about 3mm and no noise at all. Since I may sell the car soon for something more sporty I wanted to just do the pads to get me at least through the year.
 

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thanks for all of the posts. I don't think the guide pins are stuck - wouldn't there be symptoms besides noise?

I think I will try and bed the pads in and if that doesn't reduce the noise I will just drive it and replace the rotors if it gets worse
The symptoms is the brake pad will stick/bind and rub rotor more. It could cause heat and in severe cases smoke.

I like your plan. May I suggest not going to Pike's Peak unless you get the full brake job. :grin2:

One last thing. I like kittens. I take car of three.
 

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yup my pads were about 3mm and no noise at all. Since I may sell the car soon for something more sporty I wanted to just do the pads to get me at least through the year.
That is what I thought. When you bed pads you should be able to tell how well they are stopping the car. I can deal with noise. Lack of stopping is a big concern.

Something more sporty..user name kittens...I found your next car! You just need to find $60K. :grin2:

https://www.jaguarusa.com/all-models/f-type/index.html
 

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I don't use new rotors with new pads. I wait until the rotor is too thin before replacing them. Minimum thickness will be stamped on them somewhere.

The guide pins defiantly need lubed, and some also need lubed at the contact points of the pads where they ride in the caliper bracket. My Accent does.
 

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it all depends on quality work as many said. Brake pads slide in between two thin metal slides that usually you are supposed to replace with the new pads. They come with the pads, which makes it more obvious to change them. Lubrication i key for better performance and noise issues. Just a little dab of anti-seize (copper recommended) in the contact points and you are good to go. Also as raspberry said, the guide pins could use new lube too. If you know how to change wheels, this should be an easy job. Once you see it, you'll understand how a brake works.
 

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On my Accent the boots for the pins lock into the caliper bracket. They need to fit tight and it takes a bit of effort to push the bracket end of the boot into the locking groove. I use a flat blade screw driver.

When you are done you should be able to pull on the pin and the boot does not pull away from the bracket.
 

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All good posts above. Kittens, since you didn't know what guide pins were, how about a quick and easy "Disc Brakes 101" to carry forward?

Pads: This is the primary wear component in any disc brake system, any car/truck brand. They are squeezed against the disc rotor by the caliper to stop the car.
Rotor: The shiny disc looking thing you can see through the wheel or when the wheel is removed.
Caliper: The hydraulically operated device that applies pressure to the pads to squeeze against the rotor, stopping/slowing the car.

Calipers center on the rotor by riding on lubricated guide pins. These need to be lubricated to make sure the caliper can freely center itself with the rotor and allow the inside pad and outside pad to wear evenly. Should the guide pin not be lubricated properly, the caliper can "stick" and not stay centered on the rotor causing one pad to wear faster than the other. When changing out the pads this is something to look for. If the wear is visibly uneven, chances are one or both guide pins is sticking and both should be removed, cleaned, checked for wear, and if good, lubed with the proper grease and reinstalled.

Rotors will eventually wear out. The pads wear faster, but depending on the material of the pad (organic, semi-metallic, semi-ceramic, ceramic) the rate of wear can be faster. The big question on rotors during a pad replacement is generally use as is, resurface, or replace? Well, that depends. :)

If the pads have not worn to the point of metal on metal contact with the rotor they can probably be reused IF they have not worn below the minimum thickness allowed. This is a dimension usually cast in the surface of the rotor. If they have not worn beyond or near that dimension, the next question is whether to "turn" or "resurface" the rotor. Note that if the rotor has not worn below the minimum thickness and does not have excessive rust within the fins (fins are for cooling, typically on the front rotors only and are between the inside and outside shiny surfaces) the rotor can be turned. If you are feeling a pulsation in the car or brake pedal when stopping and want to fix it, the rotors must be turned (if there is enough thickness) or replaced. As stated in prior postings above, this will also get rid of the wear ridge on the very edge of the shiny surface and can eliminate odd noises. If there are "grooves" worn in the rotor, turning will aid in the "seating" of the new pads. Here again, not a safety issue, more a "cheap and quick" vs "complete" service.

If the rotor is worn to or beyond the minimum thickness, or is grooved deeply to the point that resurfacing smooth would take the thickness beyond the minimum, the rotors should be replaced. This is a safety issue and deserves that level of attention.

So, to your original post, if the shop you used saw even wear on the removed pads, felt no pulsation in the brakes when applied, and the rotors were neither rusted out or excessively worn, then a simple pad replacement will indeed get you safe brakes.

The dealer quoted a "complete" brake job which should include quality pads, rotor resurfacing or replacement, and full cleaning and lubrication of all guide pins. Not that the dealer job in this instance would be safer, but in warrantying their work they want to be sure there are no noises, vibrations, etc that while not a safety issue could raise customer concerns.

Hope this is useful for our readers who are new to the world of automotive maintenance, whether a do-it-yourself newbie or to help in talking with a repair shop. To our more experienced folk, please feel free to add if I have missed something.

Peace
 

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A braking noise when stopping from a low speed is often caused by an incompatibility between the pad and rotor. That is why I always use the manufacturer's OEM replacement brake pad. If the replacement pad was of a different material, it can make noise. If it was a slightly different size, it can make noise as it rubs against a portion of the brake rotor that had not been worn down by the previous pads. Failure to lube the brake pad clips, or improperly installing the brake pad shims can also make noise. Caliper guide pins are less likely to make a braking noise. If the second shop did actually remove the caliper from the pins and find them dry, then they should be lubricated. Have you returned to the original mechanic to have him correct the noise under his work "warranty".

Regardless of the level of brake work done, it is always important to verify that the mechanic properly torqued the wheel lugs when reinstalling the wheel. Mechanics routinely use an impact wrench to install tires and almost always over-torque and/or unevenly torque the lug nuts. That results in warping the rotor. You won't feel any pulsation at first, but after about 3,000-5,000 miles the warped rotor will rub against the retracted brake pad and cause a variation in the thickness of the rotor. That will be felt as a pulsating brake pedal when slowing from highway speeds. The same thing happens if the original rotor was already warped, or if a new one was installed that had too much runout. ANY brake job should include rotor thickness and runout measurements, with the proper corrections made. Of course, even if the rotor is perfect, or made to be such, improperly torquing the lug nuts will ruin it as noted above.
 

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My passenger side front caliber doesn't slide in all the way because of this so towards the end of the life of the pads they start to wear uneven. I have a lifetime warranty on my pads from Vatozone so I don't really care. I am getting rid of my 11 Sonata next summer after I move to Austin anyways so I really don't care. They don't make any noises so I doubt it is the pin slide and is probably the pads.
 

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One of the strangest noises I ever heard from a disc brake after the rotors were turned was a very loud "CLACK" that repeated loudly and slowed down with vehicle speed. Cause?

The fellow who turned the rotors didn't know what he was doing. Tried to turn to quickly, moving the cutting bit across the rotor surface too quickly. This produces a "spiral" cut like a record album. So when the brakes were applied the pads tried to follow the "groove" and would snap back when it hit the limit of travel. Darndest thing I have ever heard, and was spotted when the wheel was pulled. Really obvious. Had a different operator do a slow light cut and problem fixed.

:wallbash:
 
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