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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have read a bunch of posts on this forum and others that are amazing. Folks paying way more than they should for new cars. One of the issues of course is if you have a car to trade you are starting from a bad position. First find out what your used car is worth on the wholesale market BEFORE going to a dealer. A good starting point is to price your existing car using the NADA guide. New Car Prices and Used Car Book Values - NADAguides and others avail.

You will find what your car is really worth to the dealer on a trade. It will show rough trade in clean trade in, etc. It will adjust for mileage.

It is extremely important you go to multiple dealers to look at cars to determine exactly what you want in terms of model and options. Then you need to know the absolute best price you can purchase your car for with NO trade in. Your starting point for this is the car dealer invoice price, NOT the MSRP door sticker price. You can ask the dealer for this price, Hyundai calls it Dealer Cost price. Dealer of course will not want to show it to you. You can also get the Dealer Cost by going to several different web sites like Edmonds.com. Remember to add in the extra charges for shipping. You will likely have to add an advertising price dealers pay to a local or regional dealer network for news, TV and radio advertising which will run anywhere from zero to about $300.

Once you are armed with the correct dealer cost, they you need to see how far you can go BELOW the dealer cost. This is not really the actual price the dealer pays for the car just another baseline to use and the only one you will use. One good way to set a starting point is to go to the Costco auto program web site. I did this and it will direct you to a dealer and that dealer MUST show you the Costco discount and the Dealer Cost. For my recent SF Limited I found the Costco price was $800 below the Dealer cost price. That tells you somewhere close to the dealers bottom line for the car. Now start looking at the mfgs incentives in play. On my purchase I got a loyal customer coupon of $750 and another $750 factory incentive. So my price was Dealer Cost, minus Costco $800, minus another $750, minus another $750. That is what I should and did pay plus tax and license for a new car with out trase in. Now here is the rub. The dealer will do his level best to add to that price with all kinds of adds ons, dealer installed options which are grossly over priced, maintence contracts, undercoating, insurance, etc. Absolutely make it clear you insist on paying zero for any of these prices. There if you have no trade in that is what you should pay. Note some dealers attempt to add an administrative fee like up to $300, and I have found it negotiable, a couple of times to zero. Note, I purchased another Hyundai for my wife 18 months ago and I did not like the location of the Hyundai Costco dealer, but knowing the Costco price, I was able to get a close dealer to sell me an Accent for $300 under the Costco auto price.


Now if you have a trade in, go back to the NADA guide prices. Your job is to convience the dealer which category your car fits into, ie rough trade in, average trade in, or above average trade in. Before your dealer ever sees your trade in clean it up top to bottom, inside and out including under the hood. Make it so the dealer sees no additional costs to sell your car even in an auction. Your job is to convince the dealer your car is worth the highest trade in value, remember you have already determined the new car price before trade in.

Now just subtract the trade in value you decide on from your previously agreed new car price and you have your price for a new car with trade in. One note, many states allow you to only pay taxes on the difference between new car price and trade in so the taxes you actually pay may be less than the original new car price which was determined with no trade in. Over my life time I have purchased about 35 new cars, after getting screwed on the first few I got smart and so should you.

Deal in facts with the dealer. Do not ever let the dealer start with the MSRP, it is meaningless. Do not be afraid of talking directly to the sales manager. In fact if you only talk to the sales mgr your price could even be better as some dealers then do not have to pay a commission a salesman. You are in charge of this negotiation, not the dealer, not the sales manager, the salesman, etc. Do not let them add any price to the vehicle you do not fully understand.

I used to always finance my cars through the bank, through a credit union, etc. since dealer interest rates were stupid high, but the last few years, the car mfgs have come out with unbelievable low interest rates to sell cars, you may not be able to beat. Do not add significant extra costs by adding stupid financing fees, or other to an otherwise low interest rate. I finally figured out that paying interest on a car was not smart on my part on a product that decreases in value so fast, so now I only pay cash, ie savings on new cars.

Remember the Dealer Cost is not the cost the dealer actually pays. What the dealer actually pays is far below that price. The dealer gets all kinds of rebates to that price at the end of the month/year based on a lot of things like volume. Also remember the best deal the dealer can make is on a car that is in transit to his dealership not one that has been setting unsold on his lot. Most but not all dealers have to pay finance charges on his car stock. When they are getting the sharp pencil on a deal they are looking at how much interest that they have paid on that exact car sitting on the lot. Many times you can get a new year model car in shipping cheaper than a last years new car still on the lot for many months.

Special orders for a new car are the pits, I have always been disappointed doing so. Pick one already on the way to the dealer. For Hyundai that means on the truck in the US on the way to your dealer, not one still on a ship or in a US factory somewhere.

Maybe this will be useful to someone. I am 70 years old and have purchased a whole lot of new cars and learned a lot of lessons the hard way.
 

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so what website is costco and do you have to be a member of costco to get say the 800 below dealer invoice pricing? My hyundai dealer was upfront with me and showed me dealer invoice and even told me there is about 900 in dealer holdback money which is below dealer invoice. I always buy at dealer invoice pricing and that 900 holdback is for things like full tank of gas and their time and cleanup and to get my vehicle in stock since not on their lot but like 150-200 miles away. I held to my guns at trade in price but they came up 800 off their top dollar which was just average trade in pricing and I got high/tops trade in pricing but wanted 200 more but settled on 200 less than very, very top tier pricing. So, I think I got a decent deal? Dealer will still make 2 grand profit on my used car at least and possibly 2500 if they sell it quick plus not charging me a dealer trade fee to go get the vehicle I want exactly equipped. Some stealers want up to 500 bucks to go get my vehicle which I will just walk out on them not wasting anymore of my time.

So, what website is costco at and do you have to be a member?????? Won't do me any good if local dealers are not affiliated with costco whatever that is since 1/2 tank or more in gas expense and a full day of my time may or may not save me 200-800 bucks more?

Problem for me is only 2 local dealers and the rest is 100 miles or more away and would end up wasting a full day just to save MAYBE that 200 bucks I might have lost plus as you say the 800 or so costco additional savings which then is worth it to drive 200 miles or so?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
To get the Costco price you have to be a member or have a friend that is a member get it for you. But all you get via Costo auto is the name of the local Costco dealer that has the Costco negotiated prices. The dealer never asks to see your Costco card or anything. See this web site:

Costco Auto │ Car buying made easy │ new vehicles & more!

If that dealer will not give you a price well below factory invoice (i.e. Hyundai Dealer Cost) and show you the numbers, Costco will drop them from their program.

I am not pushing Costco, just using the Costco price as a threashold that you can purchase the auto for. As I said earlier, last year I purchased an Accent several hundred below the at that time Phoenix area Costco Hyundai price.

Once you have the name of the local dealer that Costco has negotiated with all you have to do is call them to get Dealer cost and the Costco discount. Important here is that you have to know the exact car and options you want before doing so. I recommend you only talk to the sales manager and not a salesman.

I usually go to several dealers and sit in the cars and even drive them to make sure it is what I want. I tell the dealer that I am shopping and not yet ready to purchase an auto but want to see what is out there. Reduces the pressure to buy now, negotiate now.

Did you get the current factory incentive as of 3 March through 31 March as of right now on the SF, it is $750 off in most areas, some more some less. See the Hyundai.com web site.

I think any dealer telling you there is a dealer hold back of a given amount under Hyundai Dealer Cost is blowing smoke. The actual dealer cost at the end of the year is far less. If that were not the case dealers that sell at a Costco price of $800 below the Dealer Cost price would quickly go out of business.
 

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IMO such an old school approach would require far more work than is required. A few things that I experienced when I bought my 2013 GLS AWD last Fall:

• The invoice price from Edmunds, etc. is a useless number that is far higher than the actual dealer cost. As a baseline, I got a quote from the TrueCar buying service before I started negotiations and the best TrueCar quote was about $200 under the published invoice price (quite a coincidence!). I was contacted on another forum by a senior management type at a Hyundai dealership in another part of the country when a local dealer was jerking me around and they broke down what the actual dealer cost was. I was asked not to share that info because it was proprietary Hyundai information, but let's just say that the holdback is just the tip of the iceberg. In a nutshell: don't bother with MSRP or the invoice price because they are both meaningless. I ended up paying about $1400 below invoice before incentives (more than $1k lower than the TrueCar quote) with my approach and the dealership still made a profit with all of the overhead on their end!

• Go to the Hyundai web site and see what factory incentives you qualify for before you start negotiating (see here for USA). For example, we were surprised to see that my wife's recent graduate degree qualified for the $400 college grad incentive. When negotiating, the dealer may offer you a low price citing incentives that you do not qualify for (like taking $500 off the price they quote you for the military program without ever asking if you were in the military). Knowing this info in advance will help keep them honest on that front at least.

• Don't bother physically going to multiple dealers because it is terribly inefficient and time consuming. In fact, I would recommend doing a test drive at a single dealership that you would probably NOT be buying from. While I gave the salesman that worked with me during the test drive every opportunity to compete for my business, dealing with them the "traditional way" will likely end up taking up lots of your time and have you dripping in dealership sleaziness. Instead, get online quotes (explicitly specifying all quotes are BEFORE incentives) via the Hyundai web site from ALL dealers within a given radius (I chose a one hour drive). Some dealers won't respond, some will call you and try to get you to "come in for a great deal!", some will give you an above invoice price, some will offer a decent deal, and one or two will start with an aggressive offer. With the aggressive offer in hand, shop that price around to the other dealers who have given you a quote. Once I did that I whittled down the initial dozen dealers I started with to three or four dealers who aggressively adjusted their initial quotes because they were interested in selling a car and not playing games.

• Don't go to the dealership without your own financing in hand (I recommend the Penfed or Alliant credit unions since they have great rates and you can easily join, apply, and get approved online). I had 1.49% financing in hand when I bought, but took the "special" 3.49% Hyundai Motor Finance loan to get a $500 Hyundai factory incentive. Of course, I then refinanced at 1.49% with Alliant before I made a single payment to Hyundai Motor Finance. As usual, expect more dealership sleaziness from the dealership finance guy. Don't finance with them or buy the extended warranty there without shopping around first. The internet makes this very easy to do.

• Open (but do not yet fund) a free account at boostup.com at least 30 days before you are ready to buy your new Hyundai. Once you have waited 30 days and are ready to buy, fund the boostup account with $500 and this will get you an additional $500 Hyundai down payment matching factory incentive from Hyundai (see here). Very easy to do and an extra $500 in your pocket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
More good information. I made my original post after reading all the posts on the thread about SF costs and seeing how a lot of folks were getting totally ripped off by dealers on new car prices. If a person does a bit of work, he can get a good deal. I do not feel sorry for dealers after negotiating a rock bottom price. The dealer would never agree to it unless they make money on the deal.
 

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IMO such an old school approach would require far more work than is required.

• Don't bother physically going to multiple dealers because it is terribly inefficient and time consuming. In fact, I would recommend doing a test drive at a single dealership that you would probably NOT be buying from. While I gave the salesman that worked with me during the test drive every opportunity to compete for my business, dealing with them the "traditional way" will likely end up taking up lots of your time and have you dripping in dealership sleaziness. Instead, get online quotes (explicitly specifying all quotes are BEFORE incentives) via the Hyundai web site from ALL dealers within a given radius (I chose a one hour drive). Some dealers won't respond, some will call you and try to get you to "come in for a great deal!", some will give you an above invoice price, some will offer a decent deal, and one or two will start with an aggressive offer. With the aggressive offer in hand, shop that price around to the other dealers who have given you a quote. Once I did that I whittled down the initial dozen dealers I started with to three or four dealers who aggressively adjusted their initial quotes because they were interested in selling a car and not playing games.
Wholeheartedly agree. I have purchased my last 4 vehicles over the phone. Only difference is that I try to visit every dealer at least once before my "buy date". That way, they know me and know that I am serious when I call.

Then, I pick a morning, call each dealer starting around 9:30 - 10 am and tell them what I am after, out the door price I am willing to pay and if they can do the deal, then they sell a car that day. By 1-2 pm, the papers have been signed and faxed back to the dealer and I have provided my credit card for deposit. Done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wholeheartedly agree. I have purchased my last 4 vehicles over the phone. Only difference is that I try to visit every dealer at least once before my "buy date". That way, they know me and know that I am serious when I call.

Then, I pick a morning, call each dealer starting around 9:30 - 10 am and tell them what I am after, out the door price I am willing to pay and if they can do the deal, then they sell a car that day. By 1-2 pm, the papers have been signed and faxed back to the dealer and I have provided my credit card for deposit. Done.
If you check out this thread, you will see that you never even have to step on the dealers lot to purchase a new car. I purchaed our new SF Limited a couple weeks ago 1500 miles from the dealer and never stepped on the dealers lot even even to pick up the car. All done via cell phone, email, and over night UPS to sign the papers and deliver my personal check.

http://www.hyundai-forums.com/277-d...s/207561-prices-paid-2014-lwb-santa-fe-4.html
 

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If you check out this thread, you will see that you never even have to step on the dealers lot to purchase a new car. I purchaed our new SF Limited a couple weeks ago 1500 miles from the dealer and never stepped on the dealers lot even even to pick up the car. All done via cell phone, email, and over night UPS to sign the papers and deliver my personal check.

http://www.hyundai-forums.com/277-d...s/207561-prices-paid-2014-lwb-santa-fe-4.html
I didn't mind stopping in to the dealers...all within 20 minutes drive. I normally want to see, sit in and test drive a car several times before pulling the trigger anyway, so rather than visit the same dealer 3 or 4 times, I go to a different dealer each time. I don't talk price, and they know I am not ready to buy, so I am usually in and out in 30 mins incl test drive. With my SF, I had 4 local dealers, and one out of Toronto. The Toronto dealer offered a price much better than I was expecting and I used that as a starting point with local dealers. In the end, I got a fantastic deal...at least $1500 less than my BEST scenario (paid below Cdn invoice which is difficult at best of times). This is especially good for here in Canada where we have basically very few sources for invoice pricing and don't have the same negotiating power as consumers have the US.

I do attribute part of my success to actually having visited the dealer so that they knew i was a serious buyer. Else, they may be less likely to take you seriously and negotiate as hard for your business. And this did happen when I purchased my Highlander...a local dealer which I did not take the time to visit, gave me a bit of a break on price over the phone, but told me outright that they were not really motivated to negotiate hard because they felt I would simply use their price to negotiate a better price from another dealer. Partly true, but the point was that I would buy from whoever offered best price. In the end, their loss, but also my loss because I had one less option to choose from, all because I did not take the time to visit the dealer.

Not saying this is a hard and fast rule, but in my experience, taking a bit of time to visit the dealers, if feasible, may get you better results when you try to get your target price.
 

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Getting ready to buy once my wife oks the color :)

But inventory is an issue. We are going to have to wait (we know dealers don't "order" vehicles, but they have to insert preferences and just wait). Do you think there's as much chance in getting a good deal even for a vehicle not on the lot? I know dealers are under enormous pressure to move vehicles out of inventory, but how much will they be willing to negotiate for a car they don't even have?

BTW- true car price for my area seems to be very good. I have received 5 quotes (as a consumer reports member they are all free) and every one of those dealers call me/email me periodically (except for one). Anyway, they are all within 2K of each other and I of course will start with the lowest one. I would be fine paying the lowest True Car price I have if I don't have to do any other negotiating and all I have to do is pay for tax, title and license (and maybe a tiny document fee).
 

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Getting ready to buy once my wife oks the color :)

But inventory is an issue. We are going to have to wait (we know dealers don't "order" vehicles, but they have to insert preferences and just wait). Do you think there's as much chance in getting a good deal even for a vehicle not on the lot? I know dealers are under enormous pressure to move vehicles out of inventory, but how much will they be willing to negotiate for a car they don't even have?

BTW- true car price for my area seems to be very good. I have received 5 quotes (as a consumer reports member they are all free) and every one of those dealers call me/email me periodically (except for one). Anyway, they are all within 2K of each other and I of course will start with the lowest one. I would be fine paying the lowest True Car price I have if I don't have to do any other negotiating and all I have to do is pay for tax, title and license (and maybe a tiny document fee).
Mine was "ordered" and I still got far better than expectations.

Here is my thinking in a broad sense, using basic economic principles of supply and demand, and I acknowledge that there are numerous other variables that come into play:

If the dealer has lots of inventory sitting around not moving as fast as they would like, then dealers are motivated to move the inventory as it costs them money so buyers have leverage to negotiate a good deal. Also, they are less likely to give you as good of a deal on an ordered vehicle because they want to move the inventory on the lot first. Supply High, Demand medium or low = low selling price

If the dealer has little inventory and demand is high, then they are less likely to negotiate, because they can wait and get more money from the next guy And, they are likely to be more willing to negotiate a better deal on a vehicle they don't yet have so they can maximize their profit by selling limited inventory plus an ordered vehicle. Supply is low, demand is medium or high = high selling price

Just note that the "sales order" system used by Hyundai, at least here in Canada, takes into account the sales volume of the dealer. Therefore, orders from high volume dealers get preferential treatment as cars come off the assembly line. I had two dealers check the likelihood of getting my SF with saddle etc. The high volume seller could see it in their system and told me in 4-6 weeks max. The new Hyundai dealer with lower volume sales, could not even identify the vehicle in the system and said at least a couple of months, but no guarantee. Keep that in mind when you go to negotiate and if you decide to put in a sales order. I called Hyundai Canada and they identified 2 dealers in my area as high volume.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Mine was "ordered" and I still got far better than expectations.

Here is my thinking in a broad sense, using basic economic principles of supply and demand, and I acknowledge that there are numerous other variables that come into play:

If the dealer has lots of inventory sitting around not moving as fast as they would like, then dealers are motivated to move the inventory as it costs them money so buyers have leverage to negotiate a good deal. Also, they are less likely to give you as good of a deal on an ordered vehicle because they want to move the inventory on the lot first. Supply High, Demand medium or low = low selling price

If the dealer has little inventory and demand is high, then they are less likely to negotiate, because they can wait and get more money from the next guy And, they are likely to be more willing to negotiate a better deal on a vehicle they don't yet have so they can maximize their profit by selling limited inventory plus an ordered vehicle. Supply is low, demand is medium or high = high selling price

Just note that the "sales order" system used by Hyundai, at least here in Canada, takes into account the sales volume of the dealer. Therefore, orders from high volume dealers get preferential treatment as cars come off the assembly line. I had two dealers check the likelihood of getting my SF with saddle etc. The high volume seller could see it in their system and told me in 4-6 weeks max. The new Hyundai dealer with lower volume sales, could not even identify the vehicle in the system and said at least a couple of months, but no guarantee. Keep that in mind when you go to negotiate and if you decide to put in a sales order. I called Hyundai Canada and they identified 2 dealers in my area as high volume.
I have read several times that the opposite is true. The best deal can always be made on a car that is not yet on the dealer lot. Many dealers keep track costs on an individual auto basis, therefore the ones sitting on dealers lots the longest have more finance charges racked up that he must recoup from the buyer. Now last years models sometimes have a factory incentive to move the cars so last years models can be cheaper if the factory helps the dealer deplete inventory.
 

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I have read several times that the opposite is true. The best deal can always be made on a car that is not yet on the dealer lot. Many dealers keep track costs on an individual auto basis, therefore the ones sitting on dealers lots the longest have more finance charges racked up that he must recoup from the buyer. Now last years models sometimes have a factory incentive to move the cars so last years models can be cheaper if the factory helps the dealer deplete inventory.
As I said, "there are numerous other variables that come into play", this being one. They may want to recoup those finance charges, but if they were not moving from day one, do you think they are going to move any faster if they they become more inflexible on price? It is a bit of a risk game, and sometimes, they would rather sell the vehicle to get it out of inventory and suck up a smaller profit than having sit another 2 months while more finance charges rack up.
 

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Getting ready to buy once my wife oks the color :)

But inventory is an issue. We are going to have to wait (we know dealers don't "order" vehicles, but they have to insert preferences and just wait). Do you think there's as much chance in getting a good deal even for a vehicle not on the lot? I know dealers are under enormous pressure to move vehicles out of inventory, but how much will they be willing to negotiate for a car they don't even have?

BTW- true car price for my area seems to be very good. I have received 5 quotes (as a consumer reports member they are all free) and every one of those dealers call me/email me periodically (except for one). Anyway, they are all within 2K of each other and I of course will start with the lowest one. I would be fine paying the lowest True Car price I have if I don't have to do any other negotiating and all I have to do is pay for tax, title and license (and maybe a tiny document fee).
In my case, I was chasing a color that is very rare (say 3 in the entire country) and was negotiating a deal for one that is not on the dealers lot. Its not the lowest offer but the other lower offer dealers never responded (guess they could not get the car). From my experience, dealers were not willing to negotiate on cars that are already on the lot where as dealers who are still waiting for the cars are throwing in good offers and excited to close the deal.

True car price is very variable. In North east, I found it to be less than invoice but in mid west it was above invoice. And in north east, the best price I negotiated is not very far from true car. I guess that attributes to increased competition and lower margins in crowded markets like NYC metro.
 

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I have read a bunch of posts on this forum and others that are amazing. Folks paying way more than they should for new cars. One of the issues of course is if you have a car to trade you are starting from a bad position. First find out what your used car is worth on the wholesale market BEFORE going to a dealer. A good starting point is to price your existing car using the NADA guide. New Car Prices and Used Car Book Values - NADAguides and others avail.

You will find what your car is really worth to the dealer on a trade. It will show rough trade in clean trade in, etc. It will adjust for mileage.

It is extremely important you go to multiple dealers to look at cars to determine exactly what you want in terms of model and options. Then you need to know the absolute best price you can purchase your car for with NO trade in. Your starting point for this is the car dealer invoice price, NOT the MSRP door sticker price. You can ask the dealer for this price, Hyundai calls it Dealer Cost price. Dealer of course will not want to show it to you. You can also get the Dealer Cost by going to several different web sites like Edmonds.com. Remember to add in the extra charges for shipping. You will likely have to add an advertising price dealers pay to a local or regional dealer network for news, TV and radio advertising which will run anywhere from zero to about $300.

Once you are armed with the correct dealer cost, they you need to see how far you can go BELOW the dealer cost. This is not really the actual price the dealer pays for the car just another baseline to use and the only one you will use. One good way to set a starting point is to go to the Costco auto program web site. I did this and it will direct you to a dealer and that dealer MUST show you the Costco discount and the Dealer Cost. For my recent SF Limited I found the Costco price was $800 below the Dealer cost price. That tells you somewhere close to the dealers bottom line for the car. Now start looking at the mfgs incentives in play. On my purchase I got a loyal customer coupon of $750 and another $750 factory incentive. So my price was Dealer Cost, minus Costco $800, minus another $750, minus another $750. That is what I should and did pay plus tax and license for a new car with out trase in. Now here is the rub. The dealer will do his level best to add to that price with all kinds of adds ons, dealer installed options which are grossly over priced, maintence contracts, undercoating, insurance, etc. Absolutely make it clear you insist on paying zero for any of these prices. There if you have no trade in that is what you should pay. Note some dealers attempt to add an administrative fee like up to $300, and I have found it negotiable, a couple of times to zero. Note, I purchased another Hyundai for my wife 18 months ago and I did not like the location of the Hyundai Costco dealer, but knowing the Costco price, I was able to get a close dealer to sell me an Accent for $300 under the Costco auto price.


Now if you have a trade in, go back to the NADA guide prices. Your job is to convience the dealer which category your car fits into, ie rough trade in, average trade in, or above average trade in. Before your dealer ever sees your trade in clean it up top to bottom, inside and out including under the hood. Make it so the dealer sees no additional costs to sell your car even in an auction. Your job is to convince the dealer your car is worth the highest trade in value, remember you have already determined the new car price before trade in.

Now just subtract the trade in value you decide on from your previously agreed new car price and you have your price for a new car with trade in. One note, many states allow you to only pay taxes on the difference between new car price and trade in so the taxes you actually pay may be less than the original new car price which was determined with no trade in. Over my life time I have purchased about 35 new cars, after getting screwed on the first few I got smart and so should you.

Deal in facts with the dealer. Do not ever let the dealer start with the MSRP, it is meaningless. Do not be afraid of talking directly to the sales manager. In fact if you only talk to the sales mgr your price could even be better as some dealers then do not have to pay a commission a salesman. You are in charge of this negotiation, not the dealer, not the sales manager, the salesman, etc. Do not let them add any price to the vehicle you do not fully understand.

I used to always finance my cars through the bank, through a credit union, etc. since dealer interest rates were stupid high, but the last few years, the car mfgs have come out with unbelievable low interest rates to sell cars, you may not be able to beat. Do not add significant extra costs by adding stupid financing fees, or other to an otherwise low interest rate. I finally figured out that paying interest on a car was not smart on my part on a product that decreases in value so fast, so now I only pay cash, ie savings on new cars.

Remember the Dealer Cost is not the cost the dealer actually pays. What the dealer actually pays is far below that price. The dealer gets all kinds of rebates to that price at the end of the month/year based on a lot of things like volume. Also remember the best deal the dealer can make is on a car that is in transit to his dealership not one that has been setting unsold on his lot. Most but not all dealers have to pay finance charges on his car stock. When they are getting the sharp pencil on a deal they are looking at how much interest that they have paid on that exact car sitting on the lot. Many times you can get a new year model car in shipping cheaper than a last years new car still on the lot for many months.

Special orders for a new car are the pits, I have always been disappointed doing so. Pick one already on the way to the dealer. For Hyundai that means on the truck in the US on the way to your dealer, not one still on a ship or in a US factory somewhere.

Maybe this will be useful to someone. I am 70 years old and have purchased a whole lot of new cars and learned a lot of lessons the hard way.
Thanks Young man, you article was very informative
 
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