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Discussion Starter #1
So I'm shopping around for the Limited Turbo in Pearl White w/ Navi and black interior. I want the iPod Cable, Carpeted floor mats, and wheel locks. MSRP comes out to $30,250 which includes the destination fee.

I've called a few dealers around me in NYC and all of them are either selling for msrp or even over. HOWEVER, I did a TrueCar search and came up with a price that's $26,327 for my exact configuration, and I think thats a fabulous price.

The thing is now that I'm afraid of approaching the dealership with my certificate for this price, since when I originally called to get a quote they gave me a price of $33,500

Do you think they'll give me any problems if I bring in this certificate and ask for that price? Do you think they'll look for some kind of an excuse not to honor it?

I've pretty much read through all the fine print on TrueCar and it says that they HAVE to honor that price for that specific model and configuration.

What I'm also considering doing is trading in an older car I have, the kbb value for it is like $2k but it's still better than nothing.

So bottom line, do you think the dealership will give me a hard time accepting the price on the certificate? Should I wait until they accept it and THEN tell them about my trade in?

It's my first time buying a new car, anybody got any experience with TrueCar certificates?
 

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I've bought about 25-30 new cars so I know a little about this process. Let me opine with my $0.02.

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are a novice at negotiating prices with dealers. They are the experts and know all of the angles to maximize their profits and pick your pockets.

I'd forget about walking into any dealership. Contact them via e-mail. Solicit bids from about a half dozen dealers and then you'll have something tangible to work with.

I have another hard and fast rule. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER make an offer for a car. You'll only negotiate up from that figure. You don't want to negotiate at all. Let the dealer negotiate with himself. And don't be afraid to walk out the door. I always leave my name, phone and e-mail address "just in case." I always get a follow-up call or e-mail. You will hear the line "What do I have to do to earn your business?" and "What are you willing to pay for this vehicle?" and if you need credit, they'll want to talk about payments.

If you fall into any of these traps, you are like a lamb to the slaughter.

Do I know what I am talking about? Well, let's see, I've bought 54 cars in my lifetime. One can't buy that many cars and not learn a thing or two. When pressed, I always tell them I use the "book." I personally prefer kbb.com to set the value of your vehicle. I use Edmunds or TrueCar ?? to get the prevailing selling prices.

Personally, I think you will effectively be giving your car away. A clean outright buy is always the best way. There are two transactions involved in a trade-in. You are buying their car and they are buying yours. You will pay as much as they can squeeze out of you and they will obscure what they give you to for the car. After the contract is drawn up you'll never figure out what it cost. The truth is that the sales contracts to buy a car are more complicated than buying a home and I've bought eight of those as well. I can figure them out but the auto sales contracts are impossible to decipher. Blame it on the politicians who mandate these things. Obviously the auto dealers wrote the laws.

I'd sell your present car outright and leave it completely out of the negotiation. You'll never know what you got for it and more likely than not you will get nothing.

I don't think the dealers have to honor anything you bring in. If this is true, then I've learned something I didn't know. How does TrueCar control the actions of any private business? That would be news to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I appreciate your response, but I dont think you're familiar with the TrueCar process. It's actually supposed to take all the haggling and negotiating out. You come in with your certificate and pay the price on it, and drive away in your new car.

Plus I forgot to add, I'm not financing or leasing, I'm paying cash
 

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It may be to your benefit to have some if financed. I believe that if you finance $7000 or $8000 the dealer will get a $1000 incentive providing you don't pay it off before three months. You could in fact finance most of it and the dealer would cut you a check for the difference. After the three months are up, you can pay it off in full.

Well then you are in the driver's seat. If what you say is accurate, (and I believe you are being forthright) and this is news to me, then you should be able to get it for what True Car says you can get. I would guess, and am only guessing, that this would be up to participating dealers but honestly I've never heard of this before. As I have several friends who actually sell cars I'm going to look into this because I have never heard of this before.

One more thing, I always make sure that I give the impression that I'm very much interested but I never commit. And as I say, I never walk into a dealership cold. As a general rule of thumb 1 out of 10 people who come through the door are actual prospects as opposed to suspects. The sales people will obviously want to talk to whoever they can because that's how they get paid. That's why I prefer to use the internet route as it is extremely easy to do. You can go to Hyundai USA and get all of the local dealers and extend it out to get their web sites and then I blanket a number of them and watch what comes rolling in.

Last rule: Buying a car must NEVER be an emotional decision. It must purely be business. Smile; be interested, courteous but don't fall for the bulloney some of these clowns use. And some of the big lots have turnover like you wouldn't believe. That's because they all use pretty much the same techniques. Most sales people (not all) are what might be referred to as "nomads" in the business. Here today; gone tomorrow.

Don't get attached to anyone unless you actually know them. The people I work with have been with the dealerships for going on 15 or 20 years so we can operate as equals. Truth is that I LOVE to shop for cars. I could do it for 365 days a year. I went down near Houston yesterday and kicked a lot of tires. If I told you the deal I could have gotten you wouldn't believe it. It was so far below the so-called prevailing prices being paid that the dealer would have lost money, quite literally. (I got the cash price before I even left the house.) The hang-up was on my trade-in. The dealers, at least here in Texas, will never give what the "book" calls for. I have argued until I am blue in the face but it always comes down to what the auctions are bringing. Even yesterday I was told you could buy a brand new car, drive it off the lot and trade it immediately and the value would be given as "good" as opposed to "excellent." The used car managers will want to steal your car and that's a separate deal in many dealerships. In smaller dealerships that isn't true but I've never been able to break through this wall of resistance. I've shown them in black and white and the answers are always the same. And I don't know anyway around it. If anyone from the car dealers or former sales people want to answer it I'd sure like to hear it.

QUOTE (AcuraKidd @ Nov 5 2010, 07:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=369355
I appreciate your response, but I dont think you're familiar with the TrueCar process. It's actually supposed to take all the haggling and negotiating out. You come in with your certificate and pay the price on it, and drive away in your new car.

Plus I forgot to add, I'm not financing or leasing, I'm paying cash
 

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As a former car salesman (I sold Nissans in the 1990s) I will present a different point of view to that of rmissourimule.

All car dealers have the same cost price, and the only way to control where you do business is to educate yourself (using any credible online tool) and make your chosen dealer an offer. $500 over true cost should do it, although you might go $800-$1000 for a hot new model. Using this method it only takes minutes to make a deal... not weeks. The dealership you choose should appreciate your approach, and welcome you back when you have a problem.

Individuals who go fishing for quotes are branded as a "Consumer Reports" amateurs. They are a waste of time to any self-respecting salesperson, and almost always find themselves doing battle with faraway dealers who lure them out of town with phony quotes. And for all their trouble, they don't save a dime in the end. They just have a miserable experience, and they rant about it bitterly on the internet. And when it comes to servicing their car, they bounce from dealer to dealer, fighting over warranty claims instead of building business relationships.

That is not to say that there aren't exceptions, of course. But in general we reap what we sow. :57:
 

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Actually all dealers do not have the same cost price. In point of fact, there are regional differences and there are further incentives such as volume and there is the hold-back which dealers don't like to get into but they will if necessary. Additionally, they will even sell at an actual loss to make the month's quota in order to get a larger incentive for moving volume. It is always a matter of "moving iron." If the dealer wants to do it he can give the car away. In any event I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER,NEVER make an offer. I always let the salesman negotiate with himself. Once the buyer puts a number out there he is screwed blue and tattooed. It will ALWAYS go up and let's not forget the "gouges" that are thrown into further enhance profits. And as I said the sales contracts are written to NOT be understood. I challenge anyone to figure out the price you actually pay for the vehicle. Thes contracts are allowed by crooked politicians who are purchased lock stock and barrel by the dealer's associations and the contracts written by shyster lawyers to obscure the facts. But it is always interesting to hear another point of view. I don't want dealers to go broke but I get terribly annoyed at the games that salesmen use and the gullible buyers who are fleeced daily.

QUOTE (Don67 @ Nov 6 2010, 08:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=369467
As a former car salesman (I sold Nissans in the 1990s) I will present a different point of view to that of rmissourimule.

All car dealers have the same cost price, and the only way to control where you do business is to educate yourself (using any credible online tool) and make your chosen dealer an offer. $500 over true cost should do it, although you might go $800-$1000 for a hot new model. Using this method it only takes minutes to make a deal... not weeks. The dealership you choose should appreciate your approach, and welcome you back when you have a problem.

Individuals who go fishing for quotes are branded as a "Consumer Reports" amateurs. They are a waste of time to any self-respecting salesperson, and almost always find themselves doing battle with faraway dealers who lure them out of town with phony quotes. And for all their trouble, they don't save a dime in the end. They just have a miserable experience, and they rant about it bitterly on the internet. And when it comes to servicing their car, they bounce from dealer to dealer, fighting over warranty claims instead of building business relationships.

That is not to say that there aren't exceptions, of course. But in general we reap what we sow. :57:
 

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QUOTE (rmissourimule @ Nov 6 2010, 09:32 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=369482
Actually all dealers do not have the same cost price. In point of fact, there are regional differences and there are further incentives such as volume and there is the hold-back which dealers don't like to get into but they will if necessary. Additionally, they will even sell at an actual loss to make the month's quota in order to get a larger incentive for moving volume. It is always a matter of "moving iron." If the dealer wants to do it he can give the car away. In any event I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER,NEVER make an offer. I always let the salesman negotiate with himself. Once the buyer puts a number out there he is screwed blue and tattooed. It will ALWAYS go up and let's not forget the "gouges" that are thrown into further enhance profits. And as I said the sales contracts are written to NOT be understood. I challenge anyone to figure out the price you actually pay for the vehicle. Thes contracts are allowed by crooked politicians who are purchased lock stock and barrel by the dealer's associations and the contracts written by shyster lawyers to obscure the facts. But it is always interesting to hear another point of view. I don't want dealers to go broke but I get terribly annoyed at the games that salesmen use and the gullible buyers who are fleeced daily.

If you have done your research, and know the realistic fair price for the car, there is nothing wrong with making an offer. But, if they agree, and price goes up... LEAVE.
My family owned a car dealership, and I sold cars for a while. Many of the customer who got the so called under cost prices, got screwed on the Financing or the Trade in.

If the poster knows a realistic cash value for his trade, there is no problem going to the dealership with the TrueCar quote, and asking for that price. If the dealer honors it, and offers a fair price for the trade, great. If not... move on.

I do agree that sending emails to several dealers to get internet quotes is a good staring point. If the quotes are higher than TrueCare, reply asking them why they will not honor TrueCar. You can always forward the response to TrueCar, and mention that you will do so if the numbers don't make sense.
 

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QUOTE (rmissourimule @ Nov 5 2010, 08:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=369352
I've bought about 25-30 new cars so I know a little about this process. Let me opine with my $0.02.

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are a novice at negotiating prices with dealers. They are the experts and know all of the angles to maximize their profits and pick your pockets.

I'd forget about walking into any dealership. Contact them via e-mail. Solicit bids from about a half dozen dealers and then you'll have something tangible to work with.

I have another hard and fast rule. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER make an offer for a car. You'll only negotiate up from that figure. You don't want to negotiate at all. Let the dealer negotiate with himself. And don't be afraid to walk out the door. I always leave my name, phone and e-mail address "just in case." I always get a follow-up call or e-mail. You will hear the line "What do I have to do to earn your business?" and "What are you willing to pay for this vehicle?" and if you need credit, they'll want to talk about payments.

If you fall into any of these traps, you are like a lamb to the slaughter.

Do I know what I am talking about? Well, let's see, I've bought 54 cars in my lifetime. One can't buy that many cars and not learn a thing or two. When pressed, I always tell them I use the "book." I personally prefer kbb.com to set the value of your vehicle. I use Edmunds or TrueCar ?? to get the prevailing selling prices.

Personally, I think you will effectively be giving your car away. A clean outright buy is always the best way. There are two transactions involved in a trade-in. You are buying their car and they are buying yours. You will pay as much as they can squeeze out of you and they will obscure what they give you to for the car. After the contract is drawn up you'll never figure out what it cost. The truth is that the sales contracts to buy a car are more complicated than buying a home and I've bought eight of those as well. I can figure them out but the auto sales contracts are impossible to decipher. Blame it on the politicians who mandate these things. Obviously the auto dealers wrote the laws.

I'd sell your present car outright and leave it completely out of the negotiation. You'll never know what you got for it and more likely than not you will get nothing.

I don't think the dealers have to honor anything you bring in. If this is true, then I've learned something I didn't know. How does TrueCar control the actions of any private business? That would be news to me.
 

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QUOTE (AcuraKidd @ Nov 5 2010, 08:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=369346
So I'm shopping around for the Limited Turbo in Pearl White w/ Navi and black interior. I want the iPod Cable, Carpeted floor mats, and wheel locks. MSRP comes out to $30,250 which includes the destination fee.

I've called a few dealers around me in NYC and all of them are either selling for msrp or even over. HOWEVER, I did a TrueCar search and came up with a price that's $26,327 for my exact configuration, and I think thats a fabulous price.

The thing is now that I'm afraid of approaching the dealership with my certificate for this price, since when I originally called to get a quote they gave me a price of $33,500

Do you think they'll give me any problems if I bring in this certificate and ask for that price? Do you think they'll look for some kind of an excuse not to honor it?

I've pretty much read through all the fine print on TrueCar and it says that they HAVE to honor that price for that specific model and configuration.

What I'm also considering doing is trading in an older car I have, the kbb value for it is like $2k but it's still better than nothing.

So bottom line, do you think the dealership will give me a hard time accepting the price on the certificate? Should I wait until they accept it and THEN tell them about my trade in?

It's my first time buying a new car, anybody got any experience with TrueCar certificates?


any dealer can charge whatever they want. i went to three dealers. one wanted 1k over sticker(301901), one wanted sticker and one was willing to give 500 under sticker.
next dealer was to far away but he wanted over sticker as well and they are getting it. do sell your car on our own. way better off. you will get more. i got the harbor gray metallic turbo limited with everything.
stereo is awsome, nav is great.
 

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QUOTE (jsmit86 @ Nov 6 2010, 11:50 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=369500
I do agree that sending emails to several dealers to get internet quotes is a good staring point.
I tried that tactic, and got similar bs as if I were in the showroom.
I asked for out the door pricing, and of the four dealers I emailed, only two got back to me.
One gave me a price with +++ after the price. I replied and told him not to contact me again as he didn't observe my wishes.
In my opinion, this does not work. Hopefully others will have more success than I did.

I went to two local dealers (owned by the same guy) and negotiated.
The place I bought my gls (traded up for an SE) beat the fellow dealership by $300, but not without a lot of frustrating negotiation.
 

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I have bought a few cars in the past 5 years for myself and family members. I am busy at work alot, and do not have much free the to play the dealer game. I agree with the pervious post, most of the salespeople at dealerships are uneducated idiots. If you are really nervous about getting a a bad deal go with a service like Carsdirect or Costco. I have had excellent experiences with these two.

I got 2 cars from carsdirect and they find the exact model/color/options you want. Price and financing are prearranged. The last car was I got was shipped from 300 miles away for me to pick up at the local dealer. All you do is go in and sign the paperwork, test drive the car, takes only about 45 minutes.

Costco is a pretty painless process as well. You just set up an apt with the fleet manager. They have the "costco price sheet" which was very competitive. Absolutely no pressure or sales tricks. The only drawback is that they may not find the exact model on their lot. They can get it from another dealer, but may not want to. I was in and out of the dealership in my new car in about 1 hour.

The only drawback is that you need to know the exact model you want. The fleet dealers have been very professional in my experiences, but do not have time for you to test drive every model on the lot.

Good luck
 

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i agree, costco is one of your best shots. keep in mind, most dealers have a ton of non turbos, the turbo's are going like hot cakes. so your best bet would be to negotiate on the non turbo. you will get under sticker.
i bought one for my stepdaughter(se non turbo with Nav) as her credit was not good enough for the 3.9/2.9. hopefully she will keep up the payments. anyway, i got 2500 under sticker. not bad.
same dealer would not deal at all on my turbo limited fully loaded. he gave me 500 off sticker. better than any other dealer that i could find. so the moral of the story is to do a bit of shopping around. dealers are still desperate to sell cars. put them up against each other. you would be suprised how they change their tunes pretty quickly. but as i said, the turbos seem to he holding at sticker or even above(at least in southern california).
 

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It is always wise to remember the iron rule of prices. It never changes and it never will. It is the first and most basic
rule of economics. It goes like this. The price of anything depends on the supply and demand. And the second rule is that something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. If you don't believe that ask the people today (some 25%) of homeowners who are underwater on their mortgages.

If, as I suspect, the supply of turbos is limited I would expect the dealers to command top dollar. That's the way it SHOULD work. So no one should be surprised or expect a deal on something that the dealer knows he can wait out for the highest offer to come in. If anyone of us were in his shoes we would do exactly the same thing. It is ridiculous to believe that the dealer is going to give away or take a small profit when he knows he can get much more if he is reasonably patient.

Let me suggest something which might assist. Let the salesman know that you were wanting to look at the new Kia Optima. Then see if there is some "instant" wiggle room. Like the turbo the Kia Optima when it hits the showroom is going to command top dollar. Again, it's the iron law of supply and demand.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/drive...rive/index.html

One more thing. While the turbo is highly desirable if you want to go like the proverbial striped ape it is also a "disposable" accessory of your engine. They can seize up and they can blow up. And they might raise your insurance rates. Personally, as one who long ago had a Saab Turbo, I'm not totally enamored with these turbos. They will get less fuel mileage and there will be the inevitable temptation to want to see how fast they can go. If you have never been in a serious auto accident you can't appreciate the experience. I have and for my money I get nervous when the speedometer pegs or comes close. If you are going to drive that fast, I'd go get a Porsche or something that is time tested and has the proven suspension that allows ultra high speeds. Just my further $0.02.
 

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To the OP:
If Truecar is anything like amexnetwork (which has a Truecar feature), then the certificate is only guaranteed through qualified dealerships. Those dealers should be listed on the cert you print out. Take the print out with you to the listed dealer$ and enjoy the ease of buying your first car without haggle or getting duped.

*Don't buy demos, a proper break-in period is crucial to longevity. The 2.0Ts only been out for a few weeks, get one with as few miles as possible (should have under 20 from delivery). If the only car you want has say 480 miles on it, then ask them to get one with less. Dealers trade inventory all the time.

**DON'T PAY A DIME for any paint protection, vin etching or whatever bs that the dealer may tell you is "included" with their cars. The services are not completed until purchase and its worthless as body panels already have a vin on them from factory and everything else is covered under basic warranty 5/60. Just smile and tell em thanks for the free stuff if they say its already been completed.

***They will also offer you an extended warranty when you're in "the box" signing papers. Its like $1,500 extra for a 10 year bumper-bumper. This can be purchased at ANY time before your basic warranty expires.

****Highly suggest you test drive the exact car you want to purchase (look/listen for any defects in/out/under) Ours pulled slightly to the right, had oil smudges on the leather after they detailed and oil droplets on the oil filter (hopefully nothing)

GL
 

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QUOTE (AcuraKidd @ Nov 5 2010, 07:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=369346
I've pretty much read through all the fine print on TrueCar and it says that they HAVE to honor that price for that specific model and configuration.

What I'm also considering doing is trading in an older car I have, the kbb value for it is like $2k but it's still better than nothing.

So bottom line, do you think the dealership will give me a hard time accepting the price on the certificate? Should I wait until they accept it and THEN tell them about my trade in?
Quote 1) They may not have the car exactly as configured, maybe a diff int color or extra options. Call around first to find 'the one'. See my previous reply above.

2) Dont even bring up the trade-in with hyundai. You're best offer should come from a private sale if you can wait. Second best from a used car dealership, particularly one that sells a majority of honda/acura. 3rd, from an Acura dealer.

3) Bottom line, no. As long as they are listed on the print out. See my previous reply above.
 

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I actually used a service called carwoo.com where the dealers all bid against each other for your business. It worked really well for me, although it has an upfront cost of $50. Supposedly they have a "100% satisfaction" guarantee, although I'm not really sure how easy it is to get your money back because the process worked perfect for me.

I didn't have to haggle at all, which I'm glad because I suck at it. I compared my price afterwards to other people and it seems to be on the low end, so I guess it works.
 

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I bought a black/black SE Turbo in Ohio (they had to order the car from another dealer) for $24,500 yesterday. $500 of that was Hyundai owner loyalty for trading in an 08 Tiburon.

Sticker was $28,120.
 

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QUOTE (rrawson @ Nov 23 2010, 10:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=374096
I actually used a service called carwoo.com where the dealers all bid against each other for your business. It worked really well for me, although it has an upfront cost of $50. Supposedly they have a "100% satisfaction" guarantee, although I'm not really sure how easy it is to get your money back because the process worked perfect for me.

I didn't have to haggle at all, which I'm glad because I suck at it. I compared my price afterwards to other people and it seems to be on the low end, so I guess it works.
What did you buy and how much did you pay (before TTL)?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
So I have a qustions for you guys, once I negiotate the final out the door price, what other fees and taxes should I anticipate?

For example, we agree on the price of $25,000 what else will I have to pay the dealer besides that? Tax, title, etc...
(anybody know tax % in NYC?)
 
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