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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I changed my oil yesterday for the first time since having the engine replaced under warranty about 4,000 miles ago, and I noticed while draining it out of the drain pan that there were some bronze metallic flakes in the oil. It definitely looked like it came from the bearings. Interestingly enough, the bearings were the reason that the engine was replaced to begin with.
Although I never noticed metal shavings in the oil before now.


After going back and forth on the phone with the dealer today, the advisor said after he spoke with Hyundai that the shavings are "normal," and that they will "go away" within 3-4 oil changes. Seriously?
I'm pretty sure the cylinder head was the original one, and if that wasn't cleaned properly and there was bearing residue in the oil, I feel that could be where it came from. And I have a feeling those shavings are not good for the cylinder walls in the current block.



Honestly, the oil should probably have been changed within 500 or so miles of the short block being replaced (although the dealer themselves put a 3k mile oil service sticker on the windshield), but I don't see how this is normal. Especially considering the car STILL runs rough every now and again.
For example, as I was pulling out of the store the other day, the engine started shaking quite a bit, and the tach reflected that as it hunted for a steady idle. Very weird.


This car hasn't run quite right since the short block was replaced, so I have a feeling there is still something wrong. They insisted they were putting a "whole new engine" in the car, and obviously that didn't happen. They just want this one to get the car to 100k so when it goes out again they can deny the warranty claim because it's expired.


Anyone have any input on this? Am I worrying too much about the shavings?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am not a mechanic but that doesn't look good!
Not at all!


I know new engines may have a SMALL amount of metal shavings in the first oil drain, but not this much. The filter should have caught most of anything that SHOULD have been there.
 

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Absolutely F'in NOPE! You're going to hear lots of common sense calls this is wrong. And you instinctively know it yourself. Let the other knowledgeable guys point you to whom to contact at a higher level. (hint: not your Dealer. He just blew you off.) Best of luck! Please update your progress....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Absolutely F'in NOPE! You're going to hear lots of common sense calls this is wrong. And you instinctively know it yourself. Let the other knowledgeable guys point you to whom to contact at a higher level. (hint: not your Dealer. He just blew you off.) Best of luck! Please update your progress....
Already talked to Hyundai customer service, and they advised to bring the car to the dealer and assigned a case number. The representative was actually shocked at the advisor’s answer that it’s normal to have that much metal in the oil. After speaking with a different service advisor, that advisor wants us to bring it in as soon as possible.

I’ve been working on cars for a while, but this is the first new engine oil change I’ve done (dealer did the first change when we bought the car since it was free). I knew it was not normal, but the definition of “normal” when it comes to Hyundais is stretched.

Thanks, and I will be sure to update this thread as this goes on!
 

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Initially it sounded like you were getting the "run around". And you still might. IMHO...this is abnormal. It should most certainly be a warranty issue. Go get 'em.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Definitely abnormal. Hopefully they will make this right. I knew from the time they told me they pieced together the short block with all the other parts rather than getting a new long block from Hyundai (said they were "out of stock") that there would probably be an issue down the road. And lo and behold...
 

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In this day and age NO WAY. No engine should have metal to metal contact if the machining is done correctly and you have oil in the engine. To say that it's normal is absurd. Hyundai or any other manufacturer is not manufacturing engines in backyards which would probably be a lot cleaner than this engine. Serious mechanical contact inside that engine and destined to fail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Glad I'm not the only one. Like I said, I do all my own work, so I'm pretty familiar with what's normal or not. If this Elantra wasn't under warranty my dad or I would be doing it too (it's my mom's car). But with these kinds of strange issues, I'm glad it is under warranty.


I haven't built an engine yet, but after reading from other people who have, ANY metal in oil is not normal. I had doubts when I first noticed the shavings, like it could be normal for a new engine, but I'm glad I questioned it. Pretty ridiculous to me that a company like Hyundai can produce this junk and get away with it.
 

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That old oil filter needs to be cut open for inspection. It should've caught everything :wink:

This is why some of us ol' timers thumb our nose at the anti-oil change environmentalists and do a few very early oil/filter changes on new/rebuilt/repaired engines.

You need to get a sample of oil out for a basic UOA to see the PPM level and type of metals.

https://www.napaonline.com/p/FIL4077
Oil Testing Lab - Oil Analysis Kit - Oil Analyzers INC.
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Dyson Oil Analysis Reports | ORDERS
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Like I said, it's my mom's car, if it was mine, I would have changed the oil MUCH sooner. But my dad doesn't want to "waste" money on an early oil change ($12 last week for 4 quarts of NAPA synthetic + a $7 Hyundai oil filter...) and he seems to want to find problems to yell at the dealer about. He does his own work like me, but he's not one to rush into oil changes. Never understood that... I like frequent oil changes to keep my engines healthy!
The old filter is still in the trash, so I'm going to dig it out and cut that sucker open. I'm really curious as to what's in there.

Never knew Napa sold oil analysis kits... I wonder if there are any fees for the analysis after that $14.99 kit price? I actually have a Blackstone kit sitting on the shelf that I ordered for one of my Volvos, but it may be a good idea to use it on the Elantra.


Anyway, I checked the paperwork again from the short block replacement, and I noticed that they did NOT replace the cylinder head. Maybe the head still had bearing residue in it from not being properly cleaned/hot tanked? They replaced the cams, but didn't even clean the head? Poor workmanship there...
The other thing to note is that it shows "21102 Reman Short Engine" for the short block. I'm betting Hyundai just slaps these short blocks back together without caring. So, like I said before, they just wanted to take the easy way out instead of giving us a whole new engine like they SHOULD have.


Another interesting note... they replaced all 10 head bolts, but only 4 washers... awfully strange. Unless that's just how it's set up, but I know for a fact all 10 head bolts on my old Saab 9-5 had washers when I replaced the head gasket on that.
Just more details of their poor quality work.
 

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Another interesting note... they replaced all 10 head bolts, but only 4 washers... awfully strange. Unless that's just how it's set up, but I know for a fact all 10 head bolts on my old Saab 9-5 had washers when I replaced the head gasket on that.
Just more details of their poor quality work.
I doubt not replacing the washers will make much difference, at least they had the decency to replace the head bolts but sounds like the short block replacement has bigger issues anyways. that's one of the downside of these engines replacements - the level of competency of the mechanic can vary greatly and as SBR711 - a Hyundai mechanic has stated that part of the issue is that Hyundai provides pretty limited time for the warranty and may not reimburse the dealer if the work goes over the allotted time.

Now on Saabs, at least the 9-5s I've had to replace the head bolts on both of my 9-5 because of oil leakage from the cylinder head - they are notorious for that but the 2.3T is a robust engine and will easily last several hundred thousand miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I doubt not replacing the washers will make much difference, at least they had the decency to replace the head bolts but sounds like the short block replacement has bigger issues anyways. that's one of the downside of these engines replacements - the level of competency of the mechanic can vary greatly and as SBR711 - a Hyundai mechanic has stated that part of the issue is that Hyundai provides pretty limited time for the warranty and may not reimburse the dealer if the work goes over the allotted time.

Now on Saabs, at least the 9-5s I've had to replace the head bolts on both of my 9-5 because of oil leakage from the cylinder head - they are notorious for that but the 2.3T is a robust engine and will easily last several hundred thousand miles.
I don't think those washer had anything to do with problems either, it was just an interesting note that shows their negligence.
These dealers need better mechanics! If they're going to go as far as replacing the cams and VVT solenoids, they better replace the head bolt washers!



I loved my 9-5, it was definitely my favorite car I've owned (I say that before I drive my 2000 V70R, which is undergoing the world's slowest manual swap in my garage). I ended up retorquing the head bolts after there was evidence of coolant in the oil, but I think the issue was the head was warped from overheating. My mistake... I should have checked the head for flatness and had it milled.
It was a flip though, and I ended up selling it so someone who fixed it up and got her back on the road. It was an '04 Aero wagon, gorgeous car! Plenty of power (even with low compression) and it handled great. I will own another one some day soon!
 

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The picture I get from this is the 4 washers probably got lost. Remember what gets trapped by the oil filter has already gone through the pump and don't forget what may have gone back into the oil system through the oil filter bypass valve. They do bypass some oil when the oil is cold. This is going to end up a horror story. Lucky it's got warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm very lucky it's still under warranty! Can't wait to get rid of this car. It sucks, because it's a decent car otherwise, but these problems that come up are pretty ridiculous considering I have 3 Volvos with 180k+ miles and nothing like this has ever happened. Then my dad's E39 BMW with over 210k and it runs worlds smoother than the Elantra!


Definitely possible they got lost, but I would have been happier if they were all 10 replaced. Probably no harm in reusing them, although head bolts are torque-to-yield, and I personally wouldn't reuse them.


I cut open the filter from the side (didn't have a good saw on hand and my Harbor Freight dremel is a piece of crap) and I didn't find any obvious metal in the filter. It looked pretty clean, believe it or not. The only magnetic metal I got out of the oil was from me cutting the filter, otherwise it looked clean. There were some black specs in the oil though, which could have been from the tray I was using but I don't think it was. It was likely bits of RTV from when they sealed the oil pan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
After emailing the service manager at my local Hyundai dealer, he said he escalated the issue to HMA. Their technical assistance person told him that the metal shavings are "totally normal," and they would gradually disappear over the next few oil changes, and that "service is not needed." He also mentioned that there is no need to be alarmed if there are no MILs on... seriously? These people seem to think everybody driving these cars are clueless about how cars work. I've been working on cars for a long time, I can assure you that there can be major issues even with no lights on!
Might I remind them that I never had a CEL for the last engine that had a nasty knock on cold starts? Which turned out to be the rod bearings... imagine that, no CEL but the engine WASN'T "working as designed." Unless Hyundai engines were designed to knock like that... not surprising to me!


They are just making me want to get that car in for a good once over even more. I love how they just try to make it sound like nothing's wrong because there are only 15k miles left on the warranty. Meanwhile if the car was at 105k or something, they would be saying there IS a problem. Hyundai just doesn't want to throw any more money at this junk car after already paying for one short block.
 

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Cel lights only come on when engine sensors and emission devices are not working so to think it comes on when there is a mechanical failure is absurd. I would press them for a very long extended warranty after what you have made them aware of. We have warranty laws in Aust that extends all warranties for a period of whats termed "Fit for service" and the manufacturer has to argue that the warranty they provide is within a reasonable expected life of the product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Cel lights only come on when engine sensors and emission devices are not working so to think it comes on when there is a mechanical failure is absurd. I would press them for a very long extended warranty after what you have made them aware of. We have warranty laws in Aust that extends all warranties for a period of whats termed "Fit for service" and the manufacturer has to argue that the warranty they provide is within a reasonable expected life of the product.
Exactly, how stupid does Hyundai think we are?
This definitely isn't the end of it. I should try to get them to extend the warranty since they seem so confident that there's no issue!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yup, I still have it. After pouring it through a paint strainer, I ended up getting a couple decent sized flakes of metal. Small, but still a bit large to have gotten past the oil filter.
I would send it out for analysis, but I don't know how contaminated it is now that it's been back and forth between the drain pan, even though it was thoroughly cleaned each time.
 
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