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Man, I wasn't expecting this. With a 4-banger, you need all the help you can get... and that usually comes at higher revs. Well, out of curiosity, tried WOT for the first time today to know what to expect in passing power (hitting on 2K miles), and I'm deeply disappointed. The tranny is not only slow to kick down (and waaaaay too quick to up-shift), but it doesn't pick the best gear for acceleration; WTF? Tried the first time around 20 mph; should have gone to 1st right away. It didn't. Went to second, lugging the engine from around 3K rpm. Needless to say, progress is way slower than it has to be. Tried again from around 40, and it only kicked down to around 4K rpm; could have gone a gear lower too. Yeah, we may have 200 hp and a 6-sp tranny, but what the **** for? Feels like a CR-V. Oh well. Hopefully it'll get better, but not holding my breath since WOT should override any 'adaptive' feature (if any).

Am I the only one? Curious about your comments.
 

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2k miles? i tried it during the test drive, and on the way home when i picked up the car... several times. car moves well in my opinion for a 4cyl automatic family sedan. but then my last car wasnt a race car either. curious how you wait that long to see how fast your new car will go? the transmission probably has learned you drive slow. try disconnecting the battery and then drive faster after reconnecting it later.
 

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QUOTE (elp_jc @ Sep 30 2010, 08:32 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=359981
Man, I wasn't expecting this. With a 4-banger, you need all the help you can get... and that usually comes at higher revs. Well, out of curiosity, tried WOT for the first time today to know what to expect in passing power (hitting on 2K miles), and I'm deeply disappointed. The tranny is not only slow to kick down (and waaaaay too quick to up-shift), but it doesn't pick the best gear for acceleration; WTF? Tried the first time around 20 mph; should have gone to 1st right away. It didn't. Went to second, lugging the engine from around 3K rpm. Needless to say, progress is way slower than it has to be. Tried again from around 40, and it only kicked down to around 4K rpm; could have gone a gear lower too. Yeah, we may have 200 hp and a 6-sp tranny, but what the **** for? Feels like a CR-V. Oh well. Hopefully it'll get better, but not holding my breath since WOT should override any 'adaptive' feature (if any).

Am I the only one? Curious about your comments.

Keep in mind that the transmission software is designed to learn your driving habits. If you have been taking it easy breaking in the car, it is going to be in "granny mode" for a while. Drive more agressively more often, and it will get more agressive too. HTH.
 

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I have been gone all week on 2,600 mile trip. I have had absolutely all the power needed for passing , 9,000 ft altitude to sea level, the 4 cylinder cranked out all the R's necessary to get by any line of trucks to that lonely slow grandpa just taken' his sweet slow time, hills, high altitude, get that pass done quickly, all done without any problems.....IN FACT I was wondering why would you need a turbo?
 

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Hey folks, thanks for your comments. First of all, I have only used this car to check my properties, so no need to drive it like a maniac :grin:. And I could always take the V8 M3 or Cobra for a fast drive, so no need for a turbo (and don't like FI). Oh, and I used it for a short 200-mile trip, and other than the Buick-like steering (not confidence inspiring at all), it did great powerwise, even at the ton. Well, it didn't have much power left (as expected), but returned pretty good mileage even at that speed, which will remain my top speed on this car; not fun to drive fast.

Maybe I wasn't very clear on my comment. My problem with this transmission is the few seconds it takes for the motor to get on the powerband since the tranny doesn't downshift to a low enough gear to get on the powerband right away. Once past about 4,500rpm, progress is perfectly adequate. And as I said, it'd be pretty stupid not to 'override' the adaptive nature of the transmission when in WOT, like all other cars. The adaptive feature usually downshifts more readily at partial throttle openings, but shouldn't affect WOT. If that's the case, at least the good news is can change. That's why all automatic cars should have a 'power' button, to summon more aggressive downshifting when required. Otherwise you have to drive the car like you stole it all the time to have a responsive transmission; that's crap, and not good for fuel economy, which is not that good in the city to begin with.

By the way, I like to drive fast on the highway (when alone on secondary highways I like to use), but rarely drive fast on the streets, even wihen on my potent cars. You don't have to drive fast to enjoy driving folks. But on my manual cars I'm usually at the right gear, so when I need to go, the car goes instantly. With the Sonata, it takes a second to respond, then another second or two until the engine finally has some balls and starts going. I'll try swinging the lever to manual mode next time, and see if it drops another gear, like it usually does automatically when driving leisurely. Thanks again for your replies folks.
 

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Plain and simple, this cars transmission was geared for fuel economy, not performance.
 

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QUOTE (elp_jc @ Oct 1 2010, 01:21 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=360023
Hey folks, thanks for your comments. First of all, I have only used this car to check my properties, so no need to drive it like a maniac :grin:. And I could always take the V8 M3 or Cobra for a fast drive, so no need for a turbo (and don't like FI). Oh, and I used it for a short 200-mile trip, and other than the Buick-like steering (not confidence inspiring at all), it did great powerwise, even at the ton. Well, it didn't have much power left (as expected), but returned pretty good mileage even at that speed, which will remain my top speed on this car; not fun to drive fast.

Maybe I wasn't very clear on my comment. My problem with this transmission is the few seconds it takes for the motor to get on the powerband since the tranny doesn't downshift to a low enough gear to get on the powerband right away. Once past about 4,500rpm, progress is perfectly adequate. And as I said, it'd be pretty stupid not to 'override' the adaptive nature of the transmission when in WOT, like all other cars. The adaptive feature usually downshifts more readily at partial throttle openings, but shouldn't affect WOT. If that's the case, at least the good news is can change. That's why all automatic cars should have a 'power' button, to summon more aggressive downshifting when required. Otherwise you have to drive the car like you stole it all the time to have a responsive transmission; that's crap, and not good for fuel economy, which is not that good in the city to begin with.

By the way, I like to drive fast on the highway (when alone on secondary highways I like to use), but rarely drive fast on the streets, even wihen on my potent cars. You don't have to drive fast to enjoy driving folks. But on my manual cars I'm usually at the right gear, so when I need to go, the car goes instantly. With the Sonata, it takes a second to respond, then another second or two until the engine finally has some balls and starts going. I'll try swinging the lever to manual mode next time, and see if it drops another gear, like it usually does automatically when driving leisurely. Thanks again for your replies folks.
I remember reading somewhere that when you swing the lever over to "manual" mode, it goes into a "sport" mode. It will still shift for you but hold revs longer, kick down faster etc. Might try that to verify I read this about the sonata and not another car. As for the stupidness of adaptive transmissions, that's life on slushbox island! If you wanted a performance car, ... oh, you already have an m3... ;)
 

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During a test drive I found the Sonata to be very slow off of a stop even with wide open throttle until you got rolling say about 15mph or so. Wanted more pop off of the line as knew I would not enjoy this aspect in city traffic.

Dont get me wrong found it to be very quick once above 15mph, dont know about higher speeds and passing. Not trying to drag race, seamed like no difference whether pushed pedal half way or wot off the line.

Really really wanted to love the car. Will try turbo maybe later, just need more off the line. Anyone else notice this off the line.
 

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QUOTE (Fallguy @ Oct 1 2010, 10:32 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=360072
During a test drive I found the Sonata to be very slow off of a stop even with wide open throttle until you got rolling say about 15mph or so. Wanted more pop off of the line as knew I would not enjoy this aspect in city traffic.

Dont get me wrong found it to be very quick once above 15mph, dont know about higher speeds and passing. Not trying to drag race, seamed like no difference whether pushed pedal half way or wot off the line.

Really really wanted to love the car. Will try turbo maybe later, just need more off the line. Anyone else notice this off the line.
An honest review in my eyes. However I would not put to much hope into a "quick" off line response from the Turbo either.

In regards to the OP, I have not had the need to punch it off the line, but I have floored it from time to time to get around the fools on their cell phones on the highway and have not been disappointed. For reference I came from an 01 Maxima 5spd V6.
 

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I was disappointed that I couldn't punch it with 200 hp and get the tires to light up. On the highway there is more then enough power to pass. All about gears and torque my friend.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
QUOTE (Ayces @ Oct 1 2010, 04:43 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=360043
Plain and simple, this cars transmission was geared for fuel economy, not performance.
It's actually BOTH :grin:. More gears give you better performance AND better fuel economy. As an example, this car has exactly the same top gear rpm than a 5-sp CR-V I have, and the CR-V feels peppier, even though it's heavier and only has 166 hp. Should be the other way around with 6 gears, but that shows you number of gears alone doesn't make a good tranny. And last time I checked, the CR-V wasn't a sports car :grin:.

QUOTE (Fallguy @ Oct 1 2010, 09:32 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=360072
During a test drive I found the Sonata to be very slow off of a stop even with wide open throttle until you got rolling say about 15mph or so.
This is exactly the way my car feels at WOT in any gear, but off the line is perfectly normal, due to the nature of a small-displacement DOHC engine, where power is made higher in the rev range. Once you hit the powerband, it's plenty adequate IMO.

And yes, this car is adequate even with the lethargic response from the tranny, and the fact it always downshifts gear too high at WOT, making progress slower than it could be. But it's still adequate. Once you hit the powerband, it moves very well for a big sedan with a 2.4L 4-banger. No need for a turbo at all IMO (I can't stand force induction myself; rather have less power), even with the initial slow progress at WOT. It took Honda decades to make a nice tranny: the CR-V downshifts exactly when it should, making manual control completely unnecessary. Hyundai still has a lot of fine-tuning to make on the 6-sp unit (up-shifts too quickly, lugs engine before downshifting, slow to downshift, doesn't downshift to best gear, etc), but it's good overall. Hey, as long as mine doesn't lock up in 4th like some folks, I'll be happy :grin:. It was constructive criticism folks. Car is pretty good overall. If it had more comfortable seats, better tranny programming, and better steering feel, this car would have dethroned the Camry by now IMO. And all without any extra cost; just more experience building cars the way WE want them here. Good day folks.
 

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You noted - "Tried the first time around 20 mph; should have gone to 1st right away. It didn't. Went to second, lugging the engine from around 3K rpm."
My theory is that first gear is too short to be useful from that speed and engine rpm. These newfangled Lepelletier-type transmissions typically have a rock-crawler first gear ratio, and this transaxle is no different.

Gear ratios are as follows: First, 4.212; Second, 2.637; Third, 1.800; Fourth, 1.386; Fifth, 1:1; Sixth, 0.772. Reverse gear ratio is 3.385.

First gear on the Sonata automatic is 60% taller than second gear, and that second gear is about the same ratio as first gear on a 3 or 4 speed automatic. To approximate the ratio spread on a 1970s three speed automatic, the Sonata would have to shift 2-4-5. Shifting 2-4-5-6 would turn it into a 1980s four speed automatic.

Doing some math based on your numbers (20mph, 3000rpm when WOT pressed) - The rpm if it had shifted way down to first would start climbing from 4800rpm. Because first gear is a rock crawler, the engine rpm would scream from 4800 to redline in about a second of time, requiring an upshift to 2nd. Drivers would perceive this as a blown shift or the transaxle selecting the wrong gear for the conditions. With VVT and GDI, the 2.4 has lots of torque for its size, and a flat torque curve, so pulling from 3000rpm is not as bad as it would be otherwise. Unlike the vtec engines from some other manufacturer(s), rated at "200hp at 8949rpm, redline 8950rpm, actual SAE hp is really only 188", the Sonata 2.4 does a rather good job of getting a 3200 pound car moving. I agree, though, that it saps much of the sportiness out of the get-up-and-go full throttle takeoff.

To see if first gear is locked out except for accelerating from a stop, slow to 15mph and stand on it. Then repeat the same, but from 10mph. It is possible that the programming is set to only apply first gear from a standing start or California Stop (as defined by the output shaft sensor). If that is the case, it would definitely make the Sonata feel wheezy (as in gasping for breath, not Mrs. Jefferson) when planting the gas pedal from the 10-20mph speed range.
 

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QUOTE (ssmuff @ Oct 1 2010, 10:18 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=360089
I was disappointed that I couldn't punch it with 200 hp and get the tires to light up. On the highway there is more then enough power to pass. All about gears and torque my friend.
Traction control much?

Ive broken the tires loose (on accident!) a few times on my manual trans GLS. I could not live with a slushbox and am extremely happy with the stick version!
 

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QUOTE (DMLexpert @ Oct 1 2010, 02:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=360145
These newfangled Lepelletier-type transmissions typically have a rock-crawler first gear ratio, and this transaxle is no different.

Pretty close to that, I agree. Ratios are not the best either, making very little difference from a 5-sp unit. Plus take-offs transmit a shudder unbecoming of a modern transmission, but definitely acceptable. Hyundai still has a lot of fine-tuning to do on that unit, but it's new, just like the car, so teething problems are to be expected.

By the way, the actual weight of the limited is 3,400+ pounds folks, not 3,200 (maybe that figure is for the base with no fluids at all). In fact, the MSO listed shipping weight of 3,500 lbs, which is exactly what the title says. Weighing 100 lbs less than the equally sized Accord is pretty good, and that's exactly what the magazines reported. Anyway, had to step on it today at about the same speed, and this time it downshifted to 1st. And no, the little 4-banger makes pretty decent progress, but no violent rush to redline :grin:. MUCH better than from 2nd below the powerband. I'm sure I was right below the cut-off point for the next gear. Hyundai programmed this thing pretty conservatively, probably to maximize tranny life. Thank you very much for your comments :thumbsup:.
 

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Theres some good info in this thread.

In a nutshell, Id say this is just what happens when a car company successfully blends a 4-door family sedan with a sporty image. People get confused about what the car is supposed to be.

The fact that we have threads complaining about the Sonata not doing burnouts or downshifting 2 gears at WOT is actually a compliment to Hyundai that they have been able to attract such diverse types of owners with wildly different expectations! :)
 

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QUOTE (Mike Eckman @ Oct 4 2010, 10:59 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=360872
In a nutshell, Id say this is just what happens when a car company successfully blends a 4-door family sedan with a sporty image. People get confused about what the car is supposed to be.

Maybe you, but not me :grin:. I'm comparing it with a freaking CR-V, not an M3. I guess some fanboys can't read anything critical about their cars, but it's constructive criticism. As a said before, it takes time to get transmission tuning right, and I'm sure Hyundai is working on that. Without criticism, manufacturers would never improve things. Good day.
 
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