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Your ANCEL device looks pretty good. I can't see how 1mA could ever drain your battery. Seems like natural on-the-shelf attrition would do it much quicker.

I think my battery has some issues. Three trips for more than 200 miles in the past three weeks should keep the battery better than this. Funny thing it it always starts the car without a complaint. You'd never know the SOC and voltage was so low. Voltage confirmed with a multimeter.

12/10/20​
3847 miles​
SOH = 100%​
SOC = 13%​
CCA = 813A​
STD = 800A​
Resistance = 3.06mΩ​
Voltage = 12.08V​
GOOD-RECHARGE​

For comps, here's a test record from August. Back then, the ISG was merely erratic. Not non-functional.

08/07/20​
2700 miles​
SOH = 100%​
SOC = 96%​
CCA = 1144A​
STD = 800A​
Resistance = 2.62mΩ​
Voltage = 12.58V​
GOOD BATTERY​
What did you use to measure/report those numbers? (Multimeter of course for the voltage, but how are you getting SOH and SOC? Is it off an OBD reader and, if so, which one? Thanks!)
 

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2020 2.4 SEL FWD
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ANCEL bm300

FYI if you take a bolt meter to your battery while the hood is open, your reading will be inaccurate. When the hood is open, the car draws about 4 amps.When I take a reading when the hood is open, my voltage is about 12.38v. That’s why the ANCEL is great, you get to see the voltage while the car computers are all inactive.
Per your recommendation, I got BM300 and installed it Feb 4. One of the first things I noticed is what you say here. Opening the hood really sucks down the power. Much more so than opening a door. The voltage also stays lower for much longer.

Basically, what I've learned is my battery hangs mostly between 12.4 and 12.5 with the Ancel usually reporting the SOC(?) is in the mid-70% range between drives. When on a drive it continuously charges at ±13.3 V. My plug-in voltmeter is just about always reading 13.4 while driving.

My ISG has been totally off line since my last post. I bit the bullet and used my AGM charger overnight on 1/30 but that didn't make the ISG work. Never worked again until I took a somewhat different trip than I usually take. The usual is 60-80 miles with few stops and at relatively constant high (55-65) speed. On 2/11 I took a trip that was my usual 25 mile run to town but then it was a lot of slow driving in and around Pensacola with lots of stops in traffic. Oddly, at the time I reached 2 hours of motor on time and 60 miles, the ISG became functional.and worked well for the duration. It even worked the next time I drove the car. For a minute I thought the extended driving time may done a trick to reset some of Mama Hyundai's goofball electronics and cure the problem, but no. On 2/15 I drove four legs of 50 mile each and the ISG never functioned and hasn't worked again ever since.

Thanks for the info and the continued updates. Thanks for the tip about the Ancel too. I got it at Amazon and used a coupon sale to get that and an Ancel wireless snake camera for $53.55. Both worthwhile additions to my gizmo collection.

I was wondering, I don't recall reading about you trying to get Hyundai to replace your battery under warranty, Did you not try or did you get the never ended line of BS like most everybody seems to get?

My dirtbag dealer keeps sending me natsygrams telling me how far overdue my car is for the 7500 mile service with 4815 miles on it. The last nagmail begged me to come in for a free multi-point inspection we may go do that one of these days and give them another shot at fixing the ISG. If they don't fix something, that will be strike three and then I can tell them what I've learned about the lemon law and see if that wakes them up a bit.
 

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What did you use to measure/report those numbers? (Multimeter of course for the voltage, but how are you getting SOH and SOC? Is it off an OBD reader and, if so, which one? Thanks!)
A Konnwei KW210 Battery Tester. With what I've learned about hood open with the Ancel, I'm not so sure I'm getting an accurate reading with this gizmo. Also not sure how Hyundai does it with their fancya$$ Cadex battery testers.
 

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A Konnwei KW210 Battery Tester. With what I've learned about hood open with the Ancel, I'm not so sure I'm getting an accurate reading with this gizmo. Also not sure how Hyundai does it with their fancya$$ Cadex battery testers.
Thanks, yeah I'm wondering if the high drain when hood is opened is also responsible for < 25% SOC I saw on the Noco Genius when charging it today for the first time. It was < 25% SOC for about two hours, then 30 minutes at > 25% < 50%, 30 minutes at > 50% 75%, and then now at the > 75% < 100% trickle for a while. Perhaps it was reporting -50% lower SoC due to the high parasitic load intiially.

Do you know about how many minutes/hours the high current drain when the hood is open lasts before it seems to shutoff the high parasitic load?
 

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Thanks, yeah I'm wondering if the high drain when hood is opened is also responsible for < 25% SOC I saw on the Noco Genius when charging it today for the first time. It was < 25% SOC for about two hours, then 30 minutes at > 25% < 50%, 30 minutes at > 50% 75%, and then now at the > 75% < 100% trickle for a while. Perhaps it was reporting -50% lower SoC due to the high parasitic load intiially.

Do you know about how many minutes/hours the high current drain when the hood is open lasts before it seems to shutoff the high parasitic load?
I have a software that collects a voltage reading every two minutes and puts it into spreadsheet. When the battery was reading 12.42 V at 7:21 on 2/8, I opened the hood and left it open for two hours. Within two minutes the voltage hit 12.08 and stayed there for 20 minutes. Then it moved up to 12.24 and very slowly recovered. By 9:31 it was back to 12.42 volts where it started. At that point I ran my tester on it and got a result of:

SOH = 91%​
SOC = 51%​
CCA = 732A​
STD = 800A​
Resistance = 3.40mΩ​
Voltage = 12.31V​
GOOD-RECHARGE​
 

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2019 Santa Fe Ultimate 2.0T HTRAC
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My ISG hasn't work a few days after the 12hrs round trip in the last week of Jan (post #183), only showed the amber icon on the dash. Not really an issue since I turned it off on every drive. I only turned it back on at 2 stop lights along my work route, because those 2 lights are looong. Waiting for a recall / TSB for the fix :LOL:
 

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I have a software that collects a voltage reading every two minutes and puts it into spreadsheet. When the battery was reading 12.42 V at 7:21 on 2/8, I opened the hood and left it open for two hours. Within two minutes the voltage hit 12.08 and stayed there for 20 minutes. Then it moved up to 12.24 and very slowly recovered. By 9:31 it was back to 12.42 volts where it started. At that point I ran my tester on it and got a result of:

SOH = 91%​
SOC = 51%​
CCA = 732A​
STD = 800A​
Resistance = 3.40mΩ​
Voltage = 12.31V​
GOOD-RECHARGE​
So the Noco Genius charger was at green ("> 75% <= 100%") for a while, then when I went out to check it it had dropped to the lowest "< 25%" battery level again. I had tried updating the blue link vehicle status, just to see if blue link was still actively monitoring, before this (but I wasn't in the garage, so can't say for sure if it was linked). I let the car sit for a little while without charging, measured 12.3V on the multimeter, then powered on the Noco Genius again: it initially was still showing "< 25%" but then quickly rose to "< 50%" and an hour or so later was back in green.

What I think is happening: 1) 12.3V should be over 50% SOC for AGM batteries from what I could find online, so the NOC's "0%" may actually be at 50% SOC, which would match their "fully charged in X hours" literature which they normalize to 50% SOC as empty. 2) Blue Link vehicle refresh probably powered something up with that couple minute higher current draw, and surface charge on the battery dropped considerably. 3) The charger saw current spike up and voltage drop some (likely below 12.35V or so), triggering it go back to "< 25%" charge state. 4) As you've found with the BM300, the smart alternator seems to like to keep the battery mid-70%'s; this seems to match with some of the literature from Kia posted around European forums a few years back at. The Kia site itself has been updated since then and is no longer available, but this forum post run through Google Translate has some revealing information:

The idea behind the start / stop system
The start / stop system is active when excess power has been earned on the battery. Excess power is earned when the car has a deceleration, eg when the car decelerates to a traffic light. During the acceleration, no fuel is supplied to the engine "Fuel Cut" which means that the car's weight pulls the engine around and thereby pulls the generator, which thereby allows CO2 free current on the battery without the use of fuel. When the car has a deceleration, it is important that the car stays in gear and the foot is removed from the clutch pedal.

Why is there no surplus of power earned on my battery when I drive far at a steady speed?
When driving at a steady speed, the generator generates exactly the power that is consumed, this is done to minimize fuel consumption as well as CO2 emissions. If the generator were to generate excess power for the battery while driving smoothly, this would only be possible by increasing the generator's charging power and thus it would be necessary to supply the engine with extra fuel. The idea behind the start / stop system is that the system must be active using CO2 free energy (charging during deacceleration).

Is there enough power on the battery to start my car when the A OFF switch light is on?
Yes, there is plenty of power on the battery. when the A OFF switch light is on, it is simply an indication that the battery is at the standard level.
and

I have now spoken to the workshop once again. Now I finally got a more detailed explanation.

"" I certainly do not think your car is doing anything wrong with charging the battery. The generator charges the battery up to about 75-80%
What we often see is that if you do not drive enough km, you drive about 10000km annually, then it is difficult to get the battery to
be over 85% on health and charge to start / stop works - If we put a new battery on the car, then I am sure that
in quite a few months we will have the same situation again with start / stop not working. "".

I have asked FDM what they say to it and they think it is completely correct when no more driving. It's a problem all cars have with that technology, but KIA is overrepresented.

So I just have to get used to it.
Therefore, when the car and battery started off as new, very little SOC was lost as the smart alternator was keeping the battery at about the same level as when it was started. ISG was happy as SOC was over 75%. Overtime time, that SOC level trended down as there were fewer opportunities to scavenge energy with fewer miles driven, and SOC settled around 75%. Popping the lid and checking battery level makes it look artificially low, unless it's measured a few hours later (I suspect the high parasitic current is another reason why the battery sensor for checking SOC for ISG has to sit for 4 hours to calibrate). The past year however it has gotten lower than normal with few miles driven, though still no where near as bad as 25% SOC as indicated by the Noco Genius (but 62% SOC, or 25% when empty = 50% SOC, is more realistic). That doesn't explain the weird "battery drain due to external electronics" warning message, but perhaps just a fluke since the car saw that SOC was particularly low recently.

I'll see if I can replicate the voltage drop by triggering another blue link vehicle status update. They do seem to get triggered when the hood is opened, so it's probably the blue link/nav unit turning on in both cases with similar draw. I also plan to check with Noco if they indeed normalize their scale to 50% SOC.
 

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A little more digging as well: This sort of system, ISG + some regenerative energy recovery while coasting or braking in an otherwise conventional gas-powered ICE vehicle, seems to be known as a "micro-hybrid". Some more information here: Micro Hybrid & Hybrid Vehicles Explained - Yuasa which shows the spectrum from very basic micro-hybrids all the way up to full hybrids. I found a book (Lead Acid Batteries for Future Automobiles) on more recent lead acid battery technology, and for micro-hybrids specifically:

The classical power-supply system topology will continue to find applications as a baseline system. With the introduction of micro-hybrid alternator control strategies (see Chapter 13), PSoC [partial state-of-charge] operation of the energy storage system became a necessity and led to the mainstream introduction of battery sensors that are typically integrated into the negative battery terminal clamp (see Chapter 14). Replacing the 12-V conventional flooded leadeacid battery with an AGM or enhanced flooded battery (EFB) has achieved significantly better component durability in terms of deep and shallow cycling robustness (Fig. 1.3 refers to this as refed as improved technology, see Section 1.5.3).

[...]

Whereas in conventional vehicles the alternator charges the battery with constant voltage, in micro-hybrid vehicles the alternator control is more sophisticated. The common strategy used in micro-hybrid vehicles is to hold the battery in a partial SoC in order to ensure both cranking capability and the possibility of accepting charge during recuperative braking.

[...]

In most applications, the operating range of PSoC strategies can be expected to be somewhere between 65% and 90% SoC.
And, less we think that micro-hybrids aren't a thing here: Hyundai and Ford Will Offer Micro-Hybrids - HybridCars.com which is a 2014 article that micro-hybrid "start-stop" technology would be coming to US markets, by both Ford and Hyundai.

Therefore, ~70-75% SoC is the "partial state-of-charge" point the system is designed around. Above this, the system was able to recover some energy that would otherwise be lost to heat while braking, which ISG will use. ISG initially working for a few months after someone buys a new car (or replaces the battery) is a side effect of the initial SOC being quite a bit higher than the PSOC operating range, but ISG deactivating is not an indication of any problem: the system is still trying to maximize mpg, it just isn't able to recover enough bonus energy for ISG to use under recent driving patterns. If the Santa Fe had more sophisticated energy recovery (e.g. proper regenerative braking), then ISG would likely kick in more.

I am disappointed that Hyundai/Kia hasn't tried to do any education towards this technology in the US markets, both consumer facing and by dealer techs.
 

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Basically, I think we all need to call the Hyundai executive offices in California on a specific day. That might get some attention. Would anybody like to coordinate that?
 

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My supposedly intelligent Hyundai charging system just doesn't work. I've had a meter to watch that since the car was less than a month old. I added this because the ISG has always been a problem. Back in the beginning, I did see the charging rate drop to 13.2V during rare cold and rainy conditions while on a 68 mile trip in Jan 2020 with lights, heat and wipers running. Otherwise, the alternator is always putting out near the max with only slight variability. No matter how I drive, how often I drive or how long I drive.

I just downloaded the data from a 96.7 mile trip we took this morning. 48 minutes driving to destination, 43 minutes at destination and 46 minutes for the return trip.

The battery was at 12.48V before opening any doors to load up.

The alternator charged at a rate between 14.26 and 14.51 for the outbound leg. An average of 14.3108 volts.

While we were out of the car for 43 minutes, the battery showed voltage between 12.57 and 12.96 for an average of 12.7421 volts.

For the ride home, the charge was between 14.2 and 14.38 volts for an average of 14.315 volts.

The BM300 showed 100% for the entire trip with the exception of a few miles after startups. Four hours after arriving back home, the BM300 is reading the battery at 12.71 and 100%. The ISG never worked.

As for the relationship between SOC and voltage, who knows? This is the sticker showing the condition of my battery at initial installation.

455537



When the goofballs at the dealership tried to fix the ISG the first time, the Cadex test came back with 785 CCA, 79% SOC and 12.64 volts. The ISG was not working before or after the service but the video game diagnostics report came back with the notation of:

SCANNED FOR CODES. NO DTCS IN SYSTEM. TEST DROVE VEHICLE.
VEHICLE IS OPERATING AS DESIGNED

The second time they worked on it, after driving it around the parking lot for ten minutes with no successful activation of ISG, I didn't even get a report. I only got advice from the service manager to open a case with Mama Hyundai in California. A month later when the case manager finally got in touch with this bozo, he was told the car was operating as designed. Case closed, go to another dealer.
 

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My supposedly intelligent Hyundai charging system just doesn't work. I've had a meter to watch that since the car was less than a month old. I added this because the ISG has always been a problem. Back in the beginning, I did see the charging rate drop to 13.2V during rare cold and rainy conditions while on a 68 mile trip in Jan 2020 with lights, heat and wipers running. Otherwise, the alternator is always putting out near the max with only slight variability. No matter how I drive, how often I drive or how long I drive.

I just downloaded the data from a 96.7 mile trip we took this morning. 48 minutes driving to destination, 43 minutes at destination and 46 minutes for the return trip.

The battery was at 12.48V before opening any doors to load up.

The alternator charged at a rate between 14.26 and 14.51 for the outbound leg. An average of 14.3108 volts.

While we were out of the car for 43 minutes, the battery showed voltage between 12.57 and 12.96 for an average of 12.7421 volts.

For the ride home, the charge was between 14.2 and 14.38 volts for an average of 14.315 volts.

The BM300 showed 100% for the entire trip with the exception of a few miles after startups. Four hours after arriving back home, the BM300 is reading the battery at 12.71 and 100%. The ISG never worked.

As for the relationship between SOC and voltage, who knows? This is the sticker showing the condition of my battery at initial installation.

View attachment 455537


When the goofballs at the dealership tried to fix the ISG the first time, the Cadex test came back with 785 CCA, 79% SOC and 12.64 volts. The ISG was not working before or after the service but the video game diagnostics report came back with the notation of:

SCANNED FOR CODES. NO DTCS IN SYSTEM. TEST DROVE VEHICLE.
VEHICLE IS OPERATING AS DESIGNED

The second time they worked on it, after driving it around the parking lot for ten minutes with no successful activation of ISG, I didn't even get a report. I only got advice from the service manager to open a case with Mama Hyundai in California. A month later when the case manager finally got in touch with this bozo, he was told the car was operating as designed. Case closed, go to another dealer.
Maybe you can open a lemon law claim...if you meet the requirements. One forum member had their vehicle replaced after repeated attempts to get their ISG fixed.
 

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I have a hunch that all of this is due to fuel economy. The alternator rarely charges the battery and let's the SOC drop so as to not negatively impact fuel economy too much. I suspect Hyundai is well aware of the problems, but haven't implemented a fix because it may end up with them overstating their fuel economy...which would end up with them having to pay to have their figures re-tested and certified, as well as having to pay penalties and/or getting sued. This is just my thoughts....
 

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That theory is flawed. Mine worked for 1.5yrs at 95% consistency, then ~2mths ago to now, 0% consistency lol
 

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That theory is flawed. Mine worked for 1.5yrs at 95% consistency, then ~2mths ago to now, 0% consistency lol
You're in the minority. For the most part (what we've seen on this forum), those with ISG still working usually drive a little more than the average person (approx 13k miles per year in the US).
 

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I have a hunch that all of this is due to fuel economy. The alternator rarely charges the battery and let's the SOC drop so as to not negatively impact fuel economy too much. I suspect Hyundai is well aware of the problems, but haven't implemented a fix because it may end up with them overstating their fuel economy...which would end up with them having to pay to have their figures re-tested and certified, as well as having to pay penalties and/or getting sued. This is just my thoughts....
I think it's fuel economy and emissions related goals combined. But how much fuel could possibly be saved by arbitrarily reducing the output of the alternator? When the battery is full and happy, the output of the alternator is naturally reduced anyway. I would think a properly functioning ISG would save more fuel and emissions output than implementing some crackbrain routine to goof up the battery so the ISG can't work properly.

In the case of my Hyundai, good fuel economy is not a problem. It's rated at 25 mpg combined. Over the course of ~4700 miles, mine has made an honest, mathematically calculated cumulative average above 30.5 mpg combined (32 on the overly optimistic and similarly retarded trip computer). And my car is so screwed up the alternator trimming doesn't work at all so cancel any fuel savings there. Then add in the fact the ISG doesn't work so forget any fuel or emissions savings at stoplights or traffic stops. Alternator trimming seems like an ill-fated lose-lose solution to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

455545
 

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I think it's fuel economy and emissions related goals combined. But how much fuel could possibly be saved by arbitrarily reducing the output of the alternator? When the battery is full and happy, the output of the alternator is naturally reduced anyway. I would think a properly functioning ISG would save more fuel and emissions output than implementing some crackbrain routine to goof up the battery so the ISG can't work properly.

In the case of my Hyundai, good fuel economy is not a problem. It's rated at 25 mpg combined. Over the course of ~4700 miles, mine has made an honest, mathematically calculated cumulative average above 30.5 mpg combined (32 on the overly optimistic and similarly retarded trip computer). And my car is so screwed up the alternator trimming doesn't work at all so cancel any fuel savings there. Then add in the fact the ISG doesn't work so forget any fuel or emissions savings at stoplights or traffic stops. Alternator trimming seems like an ill-fated lose-lose solution to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

View attachment 455545
Per the book mentioned above Lead-Acid Batteries for Future Automobiles

About 4% savings.
 

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I think it is ridiculous that a new car, of ANY make or model, would need a battery charger/monitor on it for any reason. Maybe Hyundai customers should start demanding that the dealership provide such equipment. If only the technicians would get on these forums and see what the F we are actually experiencing with our vehicles. (mine is working as good or better that expected on ALL fronts.) I hate to hear all of the problems other Hyundai owners are having and am hoping I don't have any.
 

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I think it is ridiculous that a new car, of ANY make or model, would need a battery charger/monitor on it for any reason. Maybe Hyundai customers should start demanding that the dealership provide such equipment. If only the technicians would get on these forums and see what the F we are actually experiencing with our vehicles. (mine is working as good or better that expected on ALL fronts.) I hate to hear all of the problems other Hyundai owners are having and am hoping I don't have any.
I agree 100%.

Said just after retrieving my weatherproof, through the grill perma-lead plug in from my CTEK charger box for installation later today. Yet another attempt to make this ridiculous car function properly or at least gather more information for the code reading pseudo-service people who have no use for any actual customer input or experience.
 

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I certainly agree that it is ridiculous that ISG is undependable, whatever the reason for its laziness in turning on in so many vehicles. That said, there is a large contingent of owners who are just thrilled that they don’t have to turn it off on every start. Yes, it’s a “catch 22.” Look it up if you are not old.
 

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I certainly agree that it is ridiculous that ISG is undependable, whatever the reason for its laziness in turning on in so many vehicles. That said, there is a large contingent of owners who are just thrilled that they don’t have to turn it off on every start. Yes, it’s a “catch 22.” Look it up if you are not old.
Yeah... honestly I'm a little lost with most of comments above. I'm only concerned with ISG not activating if its indicative of an underlying problem with the vehicle... otherwise I'm indifferent to ISG. If ISG not activating is indicating a problem with the battery holding a charge or a charging issue, then I'm concerned. However, digging into this deeper that seems to not be the case.

Initially there's an assumption that ISG activating always saved fuel. ISG will inhibit activating if the battery is too low for obvious reasons. There's an additional assumption that the battery should always be charged to 100% if I'm driving frequently. Both of those assumptions, 100% battery charge and ISG activating saves fuel, turn out to be untrue for small % MPG gain "micro-hybrid" style implementations, that are ubiquitous in western Europe but relatively recent here in the US.

Gains of micro-hybrid start/stop implementations are exceedingly marginal, so much that a naive ISG implementation, charging the battery to 100% and striving to shut off the engine as much as possible, turn out to not save fuel. Instead, the system is designed to under many driving conditions never charge the battery fully and never activate ISG, unless it's under a narrow condition where it ends up resulting in fuel savings by recovering some energy from coasting (not steady-state highway driving, but long periods of, say, driving downhill or actively slowing down). This all of course sounds marginal, and overly complex for very little gain-- but that is the story with most improvements in the car industry over the last few decades (at least excluding full hybrid and EVs), and the gains must still be significant enough for manufacturers to dedicate R&D and increased component cost of which is not insignificant.
 
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