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Discussion Starter #1
Hi my i800 2013 UK diesle was sounding okay apart from what i thought might be a slight noisy tappet a tick/tic noise over the last month maybe due to a hydraulic adjuster not working fully, anyhow i parked up the other night and next morning on start up it rattled that loud my dear old girl came to see what all the noise was, it quitened down abit after a about 20 seconds but still sounded rough she has 157000miles on the clock, i have heard this noise on first start of engines that have been stood for a long period due to oil drain down,but this on the i800 happened after standing for about 15hours, forgot to mention i have only owned this i800 for about 5 weeks anyhow today i drained down the oil and changed the filter and tomorrow will drop the sump and check the oil pick up pipe gause for any partial blockages as i have not had the oil pressure light come on only at intial key turn for start up, its a rattle not a knock so i dont think its big end shells,maybe a timing chain tensioner problem, are the tensioners hydraulic on the engine oil pressure or mechanical tension by spring can any one advise please also is it possible to change the main bearing and big end shells with the engine still in the verchile, oil filter and used oil showed no signs of metal swarf or grindings any input on this problem would be welcome, the service sheet showed it was due around 2 weeks ago for oil,filters ect
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Update on the rattling at start up, drained oil removed and checked filter no signs of bearing metal , i search the web looking for a workshop manual to assist in the strip down couldnt find a thing for the 2014 Hyundi engine but have found that Kia use the same engine D4CB and managed to find a workshop manual that covers all i need for the engine strip and rebuild inc torque settings ect ect.
found the timing chain to the left hand balance shaft and high pressure pump had more slack than normal when at rest also the left hand balance shaft drive sprocket has worn the spacer washer and casing so have thought about eliminating the balance shafts completly as the engine will run just as well without them and it just means a mod to block off the oil feeds on both balance shafts and shortening the drive chain and a cut and weld mod to the chain casing to the right hand balance shaft,i have found a couple of Russian YouTube videos that showing the mod being done but cant understand the Russian Lanquage in them so guided by visual only. has any one else carried out the elimination of the balance shafts, i have read many pros and cons for doing or not doing, but elimination seems to come up as favourite. I would welcome all or any views before i get going and totally comitt to doing it.
 

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I took the balance shaft out of one of my cars once. Drove about 20kms before I pulled it apart and put it back in. The harmonic vibration points were all equal to speed limits so driving was always very uncomfortable.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I took the balance shaft out of one of my cars once. Drove about 20kms before I pulled it apart and put it back in. The harmonic vibration points were all equal to speed limits so driving was always very uncomfortable.
Hi thanks for the input Charlescrown what engine did you remove them from and in what car as i understand what you say about the harmonic vibration i wonder what the harmonic frequencey of the i800 body mass would be in relation to the engine RPM.
 

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It was a Mitsubishi 2.6L engine. All engines go thru dynamic out of balance. Some more so than others so I cant comment on what your engine will do but would say yes it will vibrate at certain engine speeds. Whether it upsets you or not you'll find out. I couldn't even see in the rear view mirror at the height of the vibration and felt it through the seat.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It was a Mitsubishi 2.6L engine. All engines go thru dynamic out of balance. Some more so than others so I cant comment on what your engine will do but would say yes it will vibrate at certain engine speeds. Whether it upsets you or not you'll find out. I couldn't even see in the rear view mirror at the height of the vibration and felt it through the seat.
Hi Charles thanks for your input its greatly appreciated i do understand dynamic balancing and harmonic frequencies as before i retired one of my jobs was vibration analysis and dynamic balancing of turbines, high speed blowers, multistage pumps and ship board rotating equipment, the ship stuff was a nightmare the equipment i used was IRD Mechanalysis which was pretty good gear.
And having this experiance couple with your experiance i have decided not to do a delete on the balance shafts. have found bad wear on the double helical gear drive and housing on the left hand shaft been to my local Hyundia dealer and ordered all the new spares also fitting all new sprockets chains and hydraulic tensioners just hoping there are no engine top end issues with cams ect.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I know about ships and the severe vibration phase they have to get thru quickly otherwise they can snap crankshafts.
Charles do you have any thoughts on why the small helical cog in the transfer drive for the left hand balance shaft would wear through the cast steel housing they are in, i dont see any sign of oil starvation but what ever it allowed the left hand balance shaft to move horizontally in its main bearings and i thing this could be where the rattle came from. just put a few pictures up to show what i mean any input would be welcome as it seems a mystery to me im going to replace the oil pump while i have it all stripped down. there were no slack bolts found on dismantle
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Discussion Starter #9
Diagram from the workshop manual showing the position of the gears and housing at the L/H Balance Shaft
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Wow I was a bit gob smacked when I scrolled down to pic 4. Theirs some serious force pushing the shaft forward to machine itself thru the case. Best bet is to go to an engine builder and have a talk to them. It is probably quiet common and they may have a mod fix for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Wow I was a bit gob smacked when I scrolled down to pic 4. Theirs some serious force pushing the shaft forward to machine itself thru the case. Best bet is to go to an engine builder and have a talk to them. It is probably quiet common and they may have a mod fix for it.
Sound advice from you Charles i will also take the part with me to the Hyundia agents and have a word with the workshop to see if they can throw any light on this will keep you posted on any progress, but i wont get anything done for the next two weeks at least as im off to Lanzerotte for some sunshine treatment by the way i see you live in Ozz my youngest sister is a Austrailian Citizen also i have a mate who emmigrated as well a few years back he is a body shop and paint sprayer also paints helicopters
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Started my engine rebuild today after all parts cleaned and final arrival of new oil pump (£500-00) from Hyundia £274-00 from midlands autos had to drill and ream the 25mm hole for the oil level switch and cable as it came undrilled ) checked main brgs they are like new checked big end brgs they are in good condition as well. Only fitted a new oil pump as i cant find out what caused the total failure of the gear housing drive assembly on the left hand balance shaft( as posted earlier) as no body in Hyundai or engine build specialists seem to know and just say it looks like oil starvation so will also be blowing all the oil way feeds through on the front covers before i refit them have not done much since strip down 2 months back as i went on holiday then Christmas and then weather has been against me as im doing the repair outside as i cant get the front end high enough on the jacks and stands in my small garage, removing the bed plate assembly which has the oil pump built in with this model engine proved a absolute bitch of a job, lack of clearance with the the rack and pinion steering assembly and also the front cross member had to release bolts on rack and pull down 15mm max also remove engine mountain bolts and jack engine up 70mm max to enable removal.If I was doing it again it would have been easier to remove the engine completely then work on it inside my small garage, engine internals are spotlessly clean no carbon deposits or gung so it must have had regular oil changes in its 157000mile life befor my ownership (ex mental health bus), will change the oil filter for a good oem make as the cheapos are crap at doing the job will be using oil as recomended by Jon Green on this site, will total the parts with a cost breakdown when i have completed the job and post the result on this page if any ones intrested. A few notes: Have fitted an oil pressure gauge and volt meter were the cup holder was cup holder didnt work as it wouldnt open (jams) so i used the space for the gauges set at a upwards angle in a home made housing will post photo later of completed job.
 

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Good to see it's going back together bu not having found out why it failed is a concern. Will it happen again. That pump design with straight cut gears should have the gears floating in oil with no end loading so it's a really strange one. Keep Posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Good to see it's going back together bu not having found out why it failed is a concern. Will it happen again. That pump design with straight cut gears should have the gears floating in oil with no end loading so it's a really strange one. Keep Posted.
I was wondering Charles if it was down to just wear and tear at 157000 miles but then again there must be lots of this engine model in Hyundai H ,I800,STAREX around with same or more miles on the clock but not reported this same problem anywhere, Have read a few posts here and there where people have said they had a strange rattling but topped up with oil and ran on for a while then they say the engine has totalled which dont suprise me if a balance shaft has run amoke lol, i worry if i hear any none normal noises coming from any of the vechiles i drive and dont run them until i have routed out the cause but on this one i cant find any thing wrong so will reassemble and see how it goes with the new parts if it develops the rattle again then the whole lump will be coming out for a total disasembley and inspection or a box of matches ahahaha
 

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Something must have caused the load to force the gear sideways but what could do that is obviously not easy to determine. Perhaps oil pressure forcing the balance shaft forwards. Oh well lets hope it doesn't happen with the new pump. I fully agree with your comment about not driving when the car is making noises that are not normal.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Quite a differance in the chain tension of the new to the old even without the hydraulic adjusters not being under oil pressure the old chain going up to the high pressure fuel pump drive from the crank sprocket had around 18mm of slack movement off the guide when i was stripping it down yet the chain looked good i think the spring loading in the auto tentioner was knackered. New chains, guides, sprockets and auto tentioners now fitted just the new cam drive chains ,sprockets , guides and auto tentioners to fit tomorrow sump to fit then rebuild all the front end body radiator.,oil cooler assemble lights wiring hoses ect
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Discussion Starter #20
well turned the key today and she started first try oil pressure gauge reads when warmed up 35psi at 800rpm at 2000rpm 70 psi seems a little bit high at 2000rpm but i dont know how well the gauge is calabrated, the rattle has gone and she sounds sweet, the next job is injector seats and new washers as she has quit a blow in the cam shaft cover with the oil filler cap removed, still worried that i never realy found the cause of the idler transfer drive gear wearing through its housing.
 
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