Hyundai Forums banner

21 - 40 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
2015 Santa Fe xl, 6seater
Joined
·
71 Posts
So far I got an answer on the BITOG forum, and it seems like a very reasonable one. I really appreciate the person that replied to me. I don't know what the linking to other forums policy is here, so I copied and pasted the entire post bellow. You can find the entire thread on BITOG by searching the same thread title as here. I hope this helps you. Thank you so much for trying to help me :)



Also, here is a second opinion from a comment on the YouTube video:




Well it should be interesting to see what your dealer does to fix it... I wont be able to take mine in for a month or two.
Then they can figure it out. But I will tell about some of the info I found out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Well it should be interesting to see what your dealer does to fix it... I wont be able to take mine in for a month or two.
Then they can figure it out. But I will tell about some of the info I found out.
The car has been at the dealership for a week now and they haven't done anything with it, neither did they provide a vehicle for me do drive. Awesome Hyundai warranty...
 

·
Registered
2015 Santa Fe xl, 6seater
Joined
·
71 Posts
The car has been at the dealership for a week now and they haven't done anything with it, neither did they provide a vehicle for me do drive. Awesome Hyundai warranty...
Well that suxs. Hopefully they figure it out soon.. When I take mine in, they better give me a loaner, or I wont be able to get home or to work.. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
The car has been at the dealership for a week now and they haven't done anything with it, neither did they provide a vehicle for me do drive. Awesome Hyundai warranty...
That's not on Hyundai, that's on your dealer. Do you have another Hyundai dealer in your area? Also contact Hyundai America and report this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
That's not on Hyundai, that's on your dealer. Do you have another Hyundai dealer in your area? Also contact Hyundai America and report this.
Hyundai knows what the issue is, they're just dragging their feet because they can. On Saturday, yes, Saturday, the dealership, at Hyundai's direction, tested the oil pump and they told me that the oil pump is fine. I imagine a tech (err. mechanic) hooked up the computer to the OBD II port and read the oil pressure... what a joke... Now they are waiting on further instructions from Hyundai. Stay tuned, next Saturday a tech (or mechanic) will hook up his computer to the OBD II port again and read the CVVT operation. They can't work on my vehicle during the week because they're waiting on me to just give up and come get my vehicle. They told me that every time they test something they have to report it Technet and wait for further instructions. Again... what a joke...

I also contacted Hyundai America and they haven't done anything. Both Hyundai and the dealer know that it's the CVVT, but they rather don't admit that these engines are faulty. That's why I'm also being denied a loaner vehicle because if I don't have a car, I will eventually go back and just ask for my car back as is. I wonder at what point I should seek legal counsel.

Hyundai's nonchalant attitude combined with one of the worse Hyundai dealerships in the area make for a horrible ownership experience. The nearest Hyundai dealer that's worth anything is about 45 minutes away.

I know that every manufacturer has problems, but I have yet to own a Hyundai that made it to 40,000 miles without any issues. I was usually just trading them in after taking very good care of them. Given the current economic situation and how dealers low ball customers on trade-in value, my wife and I choose to just drive the wheels off of our Hyundais this time around. Last time I had a similar situation was 10 years ago when I had a 2008 Santa Fe with 35K miles on the odometer (when I traded it) and the engine was ticking louder and louder as the miles piled up. The same dealership gave me the run-around, they even said they put some additive in the engine (which the owner's manual says it's a NO-NO) and sent me on my way. It had the 2.7L V6, manual transmission. I traded it in on a 2011 Sonata 2.4L GDI (GLS) with a 6-speed manual that we kept for a few years.

Anyway, at some point, I'm sick and tired of trying to trade my way out of a Hyundai just to get away from manufacturing defects or poor engineering. At this point, I start to seriously question my buying decisions when it comes to our vehicles. This is our last Hyundais, for sure and for good.

Thank you for replying and trying to help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
You might want to lemon law. Again, I have no idea how that works, since here in Canada we don't even have lemon law.

Then again, there's also this in Canada: Quebec man drives 2008 Hyundai Elantra 1 million kilometres in 10 years

When I bought my XL they gave me a winter kit (tires, steel wheels, rubber carpets) for free, on top of my military discount. When I went to have the tires and wheels mounted, they waived the $200+ charge because they were out of rubber carpets. I complained that the heater fan was making a noise and they swapped out the unit without even testing it.

I guess what I'm saying is that a good dealer can make all the difference. It's unfortunate that yours just wants you gone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Here is the issue-it's a common problem and doesn't seem to affect long term reliability-therefore the Lemon law is a waste of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Here is the issue-it's a common problem and doesn't seem to affect long term reliability-therefore the Lemon law is a waste of time.
What I'm hearing is something along the lines of: "As long as Hyundai can string customers along to make it out of the warranty period they won't fix this issue for anyone."

Anyway, today I picked up my vehicle. I dealt with that Hyundai dealership for the past 14 years, and while they pissed me off many times with policy changes and whatnot, I also know some folks there that have worked there for at least two decades. I was clearly told by a tech that this is an issue that affects about 20% of the 3.3L GDI engines and that it's very difficult to get Hyundai to fix it. Usually, cars that have this issue will barely make it out of warranty and then the timing mechanism will rear its ugly head. He said it usually starts with the tensioner in the left bank, the teeth are ground and the oil comes out of the tensioner if the car sits for too long. The 3.8L engines that go into the Genesis are also affected. In my case, Hyundai wanted the tech to start tearing down the valve covers and measure the oil pressure from the sending unit. We both agreed that not only is it a waste of time, but incredibly stupid. Other than not being able to accommodate me with a loaner, I can't really blame the dealership for this one. They opened a case with Techline and Techline has been stringing them along for a week now. Hyundai just doesn't want to deal with this issue. Imagine a few hundred thousand people started a class action suit or went after Hyundai to fix the bad timing chain mechanism. Oh, before I forget, they measured the cams on startup and under throttle and the intake cams varied up to 9 degrees on both cylinder banks.

So now I'm going to file a multitude of complaints against Hyundai America and I will also take an oil sample and send it Blackstone for analysis. I'm looking for Iron and Aluminum mostly. I hope there is none, honestly, but you never know. The oil is Castrol EDGE EP 5W-30 and it only has 1000 miles on it, so if there is something going on inside the engine it will jump right out. I also talked to the Hyundai tech and told him that I would switch to a thicker oil hoping that it will take longer for it to drain out of the tensioner. He agreed, and we both agreed that you can't fix much with an oil change. The owner's manual allows for 5W-40, but I will most likely do a 0W-40, Mobil 1 FS, or Castrol EDGE. @Smitty15SF here tried Lucas oil additive and he said it stayed quiet for about 2-3 days. That's because it takes a while for Lucas to completely mix with the oil. I don't like Lucas, it's just a very thick mineral base oil without any additives in it. Might as well go for a thicker oil that's properly formulated.

So that's about all the drama with my vehicle. Gotta love how manufacturers stay behind their warranty these days and how they string customers along. Well played Hyundai, well played...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Yougi-
You were told here and other places you were wasting your time. Which-respectfully you must have a lot of trying to escalate an issue-that has no-long term adverse effects. There are many 3.3s out there over 100,000 miles that are still running. Don't get me wrong-I'm not making excuses for Hyundai's lack of support-but just don't understand your concerns on an issue that will not probably affect your ownership experience.

Hope you can enjoy your vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
Yougi-
You were told here and other places you were wasting your time. Which-respectfully you must have a lot of trying to escalate an issue-that has no-long term adverse effects. There are many 3.3s out there over 100,000 miles that are still running. Don't get me wrong-I'm not making excuses for Hyundai's lack of support-but just don't understand your concerns on an issue that will not probably affect your ownership experience.

Hope you can enjoy your vehicle.
Not a single one of your replies were helpful so far, yet here you are, following me around. FYI, the issue has been very well documented by the dealership and I talked to two techs and we agreed no to go forward with the engine teardown unless the issue gets worse. I suspect the issue is due to these new oil formulations as ILSAC GF6A 5W-30 is basically 5W-20. Yes, it shears down and thins out to a 5W-20. The owner's manual allows for 5W-40, so we agreed I'd try Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, which is in between. Actually it's about the same as a 5W-30 API SL. Hyundai had a suspicion that it's oil pressure-related, and so do I and the two techs I talked to. One of them also thought that it could be the timing chain tensioner on the left bank, but since Hyundai wanted to start the teardown at the valve covers, we all agreed not to go ahead and instead see what happens if I go to a slightly thicker oil. And in case you're wondering, I tried Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 and Castrol EDGE Extended Performance and they're both shearings down to a 5W-20 as soon as they get up to temperature. I think that Mobil 1 still leads the way, however, instead of experimenting with different oil, I opted to slightly up the grade. @Smitty15SF said that when he added Lucas to his oil change it temporarily fixed the issue. That's because Lucas is garbage, it's basically a cheap base oil with no additive package in it, and it wears out pretty quick. It's meant to make your wallet lighter. Anyway, we'll see if this fixes the issue. And please, unless you want to help in finding a solution to this, stop stalking me. Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
There are many 3.3s out there over 100,000 miles that are still running.
And I'll bet that most of them have only seen whatever oil the dealer or the quick-lube place put in. Typically the cheapest "renewed" oil available in bulk.

The sad truth is that life has become disposable, and so almost everything consumer-oriented are designed to be disposable instead of durable, or at least serviceable. Combine that with ever-stringent emissions, efficiency and environmental standards, and it's not hard to see why modern engines have more problems. German luxury cars seem to be designed around a 16- to 24-month life, after which all kinds of problems start appearing, at least here in Canada, where most such cars are leased for 2 years instead of purchased.

Another example is diesel. Modern diesel engines are choked to death by the addition of emissions control systems such as EGR and DPF.

It is what it is. Unlike Nissan's CVT (for example), I couldn't find any systemic issues among Hyundai Santa Fe (XL) vehicles apart from seized rear brakes, which is a Hyundai house special these days. This means the chain tensioner rattle is either not widespread or, if it is, is not a fatal problem. Drive it, drive it hard, and if it breaks within the warranty period, you're good to go.
 

·
Registered
2017 Santa Fe XL Luxury
Joined
·
34 Posts
This means the chain tensioner rattle is either not widespread or, if it is, is not a fatal problem.
I wouldn't worry too much over a few seconds of chain chatter as long as sprocket tooth wear remains normal/negligible and that the tensioner oil seal is not affected. Do you think that there would be any premature wear because of a loose chain, Spira?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
@Spira, @cowpretzels and @Smitty15SF

First and foremost, thank you for trying to help and for your helpful comments. I believe that I have fixed the issue. So here is what I did:

1) We are not in the habit of running our vehicles hard. Most of the time our vehicles don't see revs past 3000 RPM. We drive safely, pretty much like old people. So, on my way back from the dealership I thought about this, and I also remembered that the CVVTs have a pin inside of them. I was thinking, what if the pins are stuck and don't lock up, or what if an oil passage is maybe partially clogged? So after I drove for a while and the vehicle was properly warmed up I made a couple of pulls under load close to 6000 RPM (I think it was more like 5500 RPM), until the transmission shifted to the next gear. Then when I got home I parked the vehicle and let it sit for about 14 hours. I started it the next day and there was no rattle. I did this again for another day, and no rattle.

2) There was one more thing that I remembered, and that was that the rattle started after I switched to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 API SN Plus. This oil is basically a 5W-20. I don't want to get into an oil debate here, but like many of these "modern" oils, it's crap. So I changed the oil in February, and before that the car was on one dealership oil since last year. Before the dealership oil, I was running Mobil 1 5W-30 in it. We don't put a lot of miles on this vehicle, and it's driven very gently, so it saw like one oil change per year. From the PUP 5W-30, I went to another crap oil, the Castrol EDGE Extended Performance 5W-30, another thin oil that's more like a 5W-20 for all intents and purposes. Just look up the PDS on these two, and UOAs on BITOG, they shear down from a 10.3 and 9.9 cSt @ 212F really fast, if the PDS is even to be believed. So I'm thinking that since we drive this car mildly, maybe not enough oil pressure is created with these thin oils to properly operate the CVVTs. I also remembered that @Smitty15SF said that Lucas helped for 2 to 3 days, then the issue returned. Well, that's because Lucas is a really crappy viscosity improver that's not worth much and loses its potency really fast (shears off). Since the Owner's Manual allows for 5W-40, I decided to go to a slightly higher viscosity, so I went to 0W-40. I opted for Mobil 1 0W-40 FS, which by the way Mobil's own website also recommends for this vehicle. I changed the oil yesterday, and the engine seems really happy with it. After I changed it, I drove the car again slowly, low revs and all that, to see what happens. I let it sit for about 15 hours and I started it this morning. Sure enough, no rattling noise.

By the way, for those of you who frequent BITOG, you probably know that Mobil 1 0W-40 FS sheers down to a 30 viscosity grade really fast, and then it stays there. The additive package is great for this oil, and since the Lambda 3.3 engine never had any LSPI issues, I believe this oil is perfect for this engine. @Smitty15SF give it a try and do the two things I did here, rev the engine high under load a couple of times and then go up higher on the viscosity. It may work for you as well.

I also installed a Votex DP001 magnetic drain plug, and when I changed the oil yesterday I found a minute amount of iron on it. I posted a picture below. This is after 1000 miles on the Castrol EDGE E EP 5W-30. It's really small and when I wiped it off it looked like paste. I doubt it's anything serious, the engine has 31,000 miles and change on it.

I welcome your thoughts on this.

449518
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
Here we go...now it's "oil magic".
Learn to read, then comment. I didn't say it was oil magic, I said that these engines might need a thicker oil to operate properly and gave a lengthy explanation. Or just move along. I still don't understand what your stake in all of this is, as you have yet to contribute anything useful to this discussion. You're just like a bad hemoroid that won't go away, no matter how much Preparation H is smeared on you...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,845 Posts
Yogi, there is a way to ignore a poster! Click on the posters name and click on ”ignore”. Believe me, it works. I have two ignoramus already!
 

·
Registered
2015 Santa Fe xl, 6seater
Joined
·
71 Posts
@YogiTheCat , Thanks for the info.
I drive mine hard. I have a heavy foot.lol. I am due for a n oil change I will try a different weight to see what happens.
Just seems like theres something more to it. Maybe that had a bad week of engine making and there were a bad batch. maybe we are one of a small few with this problem.
I just hope the oil change helps, cant make it worse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
Do you think that there would be any premature wear because of a loose chain, Spira?
I wouldn't worry about it unless if it worsens.

Here we go...now it's "oil magic".
BITOG has a few ongoing "memes", one of which is modern 5W-30 "shears down" to 20 weight. According to some members of that forum, everybody ought to just run 10W-40 instead. Meanwhile Toyota runs 0W-16.

If one really wants to know, perform a UOA. If a thicker oil makes one feel better, as long as it doesn't void any warranty (get it in writing), go for it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
I wouldn't worry about it unless if it worsens.
It's not the timing chain, it's the CVVT locking pins that ares stuck in the open position and don't lock when you turn off the engine. Then slowly the oil drains out and when you go to start the car you get that rattle like in my video about half a second after you got ignition. I got mine unstuck and it hasn't rattled ever since. Its been over a week now and the car runs great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
It's not the timing chain, it's the CVVT locking pins that ares stuck in the open position and don't lock when you turn off the engine. Then slowly the oil drains out and when you go to start the car you get that rattle like in my video about half a second after you got ignition. I got mine unstuck and it hasn't rattled ever since. Its been over a week now and the car runs great.
Ford Triton 5.4L 3-valve engines had BIG problems with that issue. Tensioner gaskets would blow out causing oil pressure loss to the heads.
 
21 - 40 of 45 Posts
Top