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Discussion Starter #1
Peeps,
Is anything in the drive train or other vital organ areas brand new 'bleeding edge' technology? Reason I ask is I own a Ford Focus with a DCT transmission which should never have been released to the general public (aka victims) and I don't want to make the same mistake twice. If the Engine & Transmission in the Kona are true and tested in previous models that would make me feel better. Of course there's no guarantee as tried and tested technology can be subject to updates, but it's a start.


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Your going to get both answers. I have that combo in our Tucson and I love it.
 
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Your going to get both answers. I have that combo in our Tucson and I love it.
Your going to get both answers. I have that combo in our Tucson and I love it.
I'm not necessarily against DCT or CVT or any other technology. I'm against poor design and build quality which is the case with the Focus. The Focus Fanatics website has multiple threads that literally run into the hundreds of pages of issues with the DCT. With that said, if the Kona has a torques convertor option that has been around for a few years I would want to go that route. What I'm reading is the 2.0 has a 'conventional' transmission. Is that a slush box torque convertor?

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Yes, the 2.0 comes with a traditional "slush box" auto.
 

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I have a hybrid Sonata with DCT - I'm not a fan of DCT and will avoid it if I can.

Too "uncomfortable" with jerky downshifts. Down right scary on those infrequent times when the computer expects an up shift, I apply sudden moderate braking, it thinks "oops, downshift" and the car hard breaks!

Not easy to explain but it scares the crap out of my wife when it happens. You just know what the tailgate driver behind me thinks and says.
 

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https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona/specifications.aspx

It looks like the 2.0 Atkinson and 6-speed transmission is pretty much what I have in my 2017 Elantra. I love that combo. The transmission from what I can tell is rock solid. I do not remember reading one failing. I have seen threads about dangerous DCT.

The 2.0 for me has plenty of power for my needs. Since it is Multiport it is potentially more reliable then the GDI/Turbo engine.

The 6 speed transmission is one of the smoothest transmissions I have ever driven.
 

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I have a hybrid Sonata with DCT - I'm not a fan of DCT and will avoid it if I can.

Too "uncomfortable" with jerky downshifts. Down right scary on those infrequent times when the computer expects an up shift, I apply sudden moderate braking, it thinks "oops, downshift" and the car hard breaks!

Not easy to explain but it scares the crap out of my wife when it happens. You just know what the tailgate driver behind me thinks and says.
The Sonata Hybrid has a 6-speed automatic transmission, not a DCT. The current Sonata Hybrid transmission is a bit odd, in that it doesn't have a torque converter -- the hybrid electric motor performs the function of the torque converter.

As for Hyundai's DCTs, they first started using it in the Veloster in 2012, them added one to the Sonata Eco in 2015, then the SUVs (Tucson and Santa Fe), and the Ioniq Hybrid was given a DCT when it was introduced last year, as well as the new Elantra. I know there are the complaints about it being slow to accelerate from a stop; it seems most of the complaints have been from people who don't understand what a DCT is. Kia also uses the DCT on several of their cars. I don't think they'd continue to add the DCT to more vehicles if they were having failures, particularly with the 100,000 mile warranty.
 

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Hello mogeliijk -

Thank for clearing that up for me!

But now that opens two new issues for me. My response was based on information from my local Hyundai dealer - now I'm questioning their competance.

It also raises the question "What the heck happens with the hydrid to cause this?"

Regards,
GEWB
 

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I have the SEL with the tech package.

It has the 2.0 and 6 speed transmission.

If you move up one level you will have the turbo and DCT.

I owned a 2016 Tucson with the 1.6 and DCT. The DCT will occasionally stumble but that was a minor annoyance. The 1.6 Turbo was great.

I also owned a 2017 Tucson with the 2.0 and conventional auto.

The Turbo and the DCT actually provided better fuel economy than the 2.0 in the Tucson. But Hyundai is killing the Turbo and DCT in the Tucson and replacing with the 2.4 and six speed transmission. It would be better still if it had an eight speed transmission available in the 2.0 Turbo.

On my Genesisis G80 I have the 3.8 and eight speed transmission. It actually provided better fuel economy than my 2017 Tucson and has terrific power when required.

I don’t yet have enough miles on the Kona to compare fuel mileage. The engine power on the Kona is fine. The Tucson was underpowered. I think that was due to the difference in weight, however. The Kona has the same engine as the Elantra. I “think” the engine was an older design of the same displacement.

Ideally the Kona should have the Turbo across the board. Of course the bean counters who determine the marketing would have to make that call.

But I’m not lacking in power with the 2.0 engine.

The big, big problem with the DCT is that it cannot be used like a conventional automatic and torque converter. Too many people drive the DCT like a conventional automatic by hill holding or slipping the transmission. This can and will burn out the clutches which in reality an automated manual transmission for those familiar with manual transmissions. The clutches are activated automatically.

The DCT has been a nightmare for American auto manufacturers. For example, the formerly dead reliable Ford Focus with a proven four speed transmission went to the bottom of the heap and ruined its reputation. Now Ford is essentially abandoning the sedan business entirely.

Bottom line, don’t fear the DCT but realize that it is not a conventional transmission. It can be very rewarding to drive.
 

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I see some are comparing the Tucson 2.0 to the Kona 2.0. The Tucson has the Nu GDI 2.0 motor and the Kona has the MPI Atkinson 2.0 motor.
 
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I see some are comparing the Tucson 2.0 to the Kona 2.0. The Tucson has the Nu GDI 2.0 motor and the Kona has the MPI Atkinson 2.0 motor.
That is correct. Offhand, do you know what exactly an Atkinson engine is? I've read about it but still don't truly understand it. Whatever, it works fine.
 

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That is correct. Offhand, do you know what exactly an Atkinson engine is? I've read about it but still don't truly understand it. Whatever, it works fine.

Only that originally it was exclusively in hybrids. But has been showing up in no hybrids in recent years. It's supposed to provide efficiency at the expense of power density..... What ever that means.....lol
 
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That is correct. Offhand, do you know what exactly an Atkinson engine is? I've read about it but still don't truly understand it. Whatever, it works fine.
Wikipedia has a fairly good article about the Atkinson Cycle engine; it is more thermally efficient but at the expense of torque. It is actually a very old technology (developed in 1882). It basically revolves around the idea of an expansion stroke that is longer than the compression stroke.

The idea of the Atkinson engine, as mentioned, was largely resurrected for use in hybrid cars -- the loss of torque is not an issue because the electric motor has enough torque to compensate. At the same time, as engines become more computerized, we are seeing variable stroke engines that take advantage of these same principles; the engine is programmed to essentially use the Otto Stroke when the car is accelerating (and the torque is needed), but once the car is at speed, the strokes are changed to something closer to an Atkinson Cycle for the efficiency, when you don't need the torque.
 

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That is correct. Offhand, do you know what exactly an Atkinson engine is? I've read about it but still don't truly understand it. Whatever, it works fine.
They're all the same engine - 2.0 liter "Nu" as originally introduced in 2011.
When sold as an "Atkinson" engine, they install a different cam that shortens the effective intake/compression stroke to mimic the "expansion stroke longer than compression stroke" rule that Atkinson engines feature. The regular 2.0 liter engines change over to Atkinson operation, thanks to variable intake cam timing, at low load at highway speeds.
The 2.0L is the same in the Kona, Tucson, Sonata Hybrid, Elantra, and the Kia Forte, Soul, and Optima Hybrid.
 

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They're all the same engine - 2.0 liter "Nu" as originally introduced in 2011.

When sold as an "Atkinson" engine, they install a different cam that shortens the effective intake/compression stroke to mimic the "expansion stroke longer than compression stroke" rule that Atkinson engines feature. The regular 2.0 liter engines change over to Atkinson operation, thanks to variable intake cam timing, at low load at highway speeds.

The 2.0L is the same in the Kona, Tucson, Sonata Hybrid, Elantra, and the Kia Forte, Soul, and Optima Hybrid.
Thank you. That is quite interesting.

But wouldn’t that actually be two camshafts?

The Tucson uses the non Atkinson engine as I understand it. And to be honest, it is underpowered in that model. The turbo is much better and gets superior fuel economy as well. The Kona I have has the Atkinson has adequate power but fuel mileage is not yet at a level I would like — yet.

My personal opinion is that the ideal combination would be a turbo engine with a conventional transmission, preferably with an eight speed transmission. They have that in the Sonata 2.0 Limited and the Genesis models. My G80 is fantastic in both respects. It will easily do better than 30 mpg on trips.

The turbo version of the Santa Fe will deliver both better power and fuel economy. I got nearly 30 mpg when I brought back a Santa Fe from Fort Smith to Hot Springs. My own Santa Fe 2.4 got about 23.5 mpg over 10,000 miles.

Long story short is I’m not sure why they have so many variations of engines and transmissions. I would think that would simplify this for everyone, it seems.
 

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Thank you. That is quite interesting.

But wouldn’t that actually be two camshafts?

The Tucson uses the non Atkinson engine as I understand it. And to be honest, it is underpowered in that model. The turbo is much better and gets superior fuel economy as well. The Kona I have has the Atkinson has adequate power but fuel mileage is not yet at a level I would like — yet.

My personal opinion is that the ideal combination would be a turbo engine with a conventional transmission, preferably with an eight speed transmission. They have that in the Sonata 2.0 Limited and the Genesis models. My G80 is fantastic in both respects. It will easily do better than 30 mpg on trips.

The turbo version of the Santa Fe will deliver both better power and fuel economy. I got nearly 30 mpg when I brought back a Santa Fe from Fort Smith to Hot Springs. My own Santa Fe 2.4 got about 23.5 mpg over 10,000 miles.

Long story short is I’m not sure why they have so many variations of engines and transmissions. I would think that would simplify this for everyone, it seems.
The way I understand it the engines are the same, camshafts and all. The difference is merely in how the engine's computer controls the valves. Essentially, while the strokes remain the same, the valves are open and closed earlier on the hybrid, as needed, to mimic the shorter compression strokes on an Atkinson cycle engine.

One thing I meant to be clearer on, many hybrids (and maybe most, or all) that claim the "Atkinson Cycle" engines don't have a true Atkinson engine; they have a more modern engine where it uses a computer to mimic the Atkinson Cycle.
 
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