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my car also has same problem. i can see the steering wheel turns left as soon as i took my hand off the steering.
 

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am curious to see how this pans out; I am lucky my car tracks beautifully even after 60K on the clock .. I wonder if these "common drifters" are the result of yard monkey damage on/off the trains and/or trucks or something ?
 

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QUOTE (kittu @ Oct 21 2009, 01:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=272577
i was kinda ok with it till now. but it is getting worse. i am planning to meet the hyundai service this week.

I had mine in service for two days this past week. First they did a high speed balance. I drove it for a couple of days
and it was better, but not perfect.

Called the dealer, took it back in and they did a front end alignment and now it seems almost perfect. I have no vibration at
higher speeds (or lower speeds), but it still wants to go with the curve of the road. Maybe that's just the way it is...?
 

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My new '09 did the same thing. The big difference is seems is my dealer is proactive. The car was put on the alignment rack and sure enough, it needed an alignment. They also re-balenced all four wheels. Car rides very smoothly now.
 

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My '09 tracks perfectly

Most of the causes (except one) for pull have been discussed:
tire pressure bias - you ruled this out with tire swaps and pressure checks
bad tire belts - as mentioned by one who also posted - you likely ruled this out since you swapped tires (2 wouln'd likely be bad the same amount)
"alignment" - more on this below - most shops only understand toe and are clueless - they don't know how to adust the other elements of alignment
suspension members not in spec with frame locations (typically if in an accident your frame may be bent, which means that you won't track correctly), or if they were shimmed improperly at the factory.

I'll assume at this point your frame is good, and no one has shimmed suspension members. I'll also assume your dealer is clueless about anyting other than toe (the reason for this is many cars today can't be adjusted for anything other than toe).

With that assumption, you need to find out the actual caster angles for your front tires. In alignment space, the item of the alignment (toe, camber and caster) that impacts pulling from left to right is caster. If there is a moderate difference between the left and the right, it will pull to the side of the lower positive caster (if left is 4 degrees, and right 5 degrees - it will pull left). If your suspension mounting points are misplaced (bent frame or way out of spec), this could have the same effect. If when they set it initially at the factory, they shimmed wrong for setup, same problem. Ask the dealer to provide you with the as-measured data then email it to me. I'll take a look. If the left and right caster are not very different side to side (say less than 1/4 degre), I would have them check the suspension points on a frame machine (the kind they use to straiten out a wrecked car) - this will then rule out frame issues. Make sure on the frame machine ALL 4 corners are checked.

Depending on what you find and if you want to keep the car, you can have the alignment set to bias the caster to compensate for the pull. If it pulls right, have them set say +1 degree more caster in the right side only to compensate (or 1 degree less on the left side). Adjust as required to get it tracking strait. Having such a bias is not an issue.

I have learned over the years that only 1 in 50 alignment techs truly understands what goes on with alignment. I'm an engineer and I used to race cars, I understand it. They usually do what's called a "toe-and-go" - this will NOT effect pull. They don't understand anything else.

Good luck.
 

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Well after finally getting the service manager and operations manager to acknowledge the problem,
I'm driving a well balanced, aligned Sonata again. :grin:

It wasn't easy, but persistance paid off in the long run!
 

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What was the final fix for you 08_Sonata?

My 2009 Sonata Limited V6 pulls to the left and has the steering wheel crooked - my alignment readings from the dealer are as follows:

Front:
Camber: L= +0.34 R= -0.53 Cross Camber= +0.88
Caster: L= +3.41 R= +3.26 Cross Caster= +0.15
Toe: L= 0.00 R= 0.00 Total Toe= 0.00

Rear:
Camber: L= -0.72 R= -0.69 Cross Camber= -0.03
Toe: L= +0.07 R= +0.05 Total Toe= +0.12
 

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QUOTE (axreyb @ Aug 15 2009, 09:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=256405
My 09 V6 SE (GL Sport) pulled bad to the left when I picked it up (it was a demo with 10K km on it). I brought it back ASAP and they said "yep, alignment is out" and they fixed it. It was better but still net pulled to the left. I brought it back and the mechanic took it for a spin and agreed it was pulling. He tweaked the alignment a bit (but it was already in spec after the first fix), then rotated tires around and fiddled with pressures and got it not too bad. Then on one of the services they rotated the tires and the pull to the left is back. Therefore I suspect I have a bad tire (belts can shift) so I am biding my time until I can put some good rubber on it.

I also find the Sonata is more prone to pulling down road crowns than other comparable cars like the Accord. Again it might be the tires. I am hoping a good set of rubber will settle this down. I have to put snows on later this fall so I will have an idea then.
Update on my situation. I just had 4 new snow tires put on. I put them on the same rims as I am looking to get some nicer alloys in the spring and the original tires were already fried (more on this later). Picked up the car and was anxious to see how it drove. On a flat road straight as an arrow - definitely better than the old tires confirming that at least one of them was "bad". Then I got on the highway (Queensway here in Ottawa) and in the left lane it was still "pulling" a fair bit down the slope. In the right lane it barely drifted at all to the right. However this highway slopes quite heavily to the left in the inside lane so some imbalance is expected. I drove my wife's Accord down the same stretch and it wanted to go down the slope as well, but not as much. So I took the Sonata to an independent guy I trust to do a 4 wheel alignment as I felt it wanted to go down a left slope more than a right slope (which may not be really true as I can't find a road that slopes as severly to the right). My wife picked it up so I have not talked to the guy see what changes were made, but it seems a bit better balanced, i.e., not quite as hard down the left side and a little more drift down the right side - still very straight and steady on a flat. At this point I am not really happy but I believe this is as good as it is going to get. I believe the Sonata chassis is more sensitive to road crowns than a better chassis car such as the Accord, and unfortunately I spend a lot of time on a road that slopes quite heavily to the left.

As for the original tires the guy that put the snows on said I needed an alignment as the insides of the tires were quite worn, almost to the point of tearing at the belts. Wearing of the inside usually means camber is out, but tearing at the belts indicates too much toe in (he did not mention scalloping). Because of the comments I decided to get the alignment checked (as described above) even though it drove straight on a flat road because I did not want my new snows torn up. The originals (Kumho Solus) only lasted 40k km (24k mi) because of the alignment issues! I am going to keep a close eye on my new tires for any signs of uneven wear.

At this point I suspect one of 2 things happened while my car was a demo. Either the alignment was off from the start causing excessive damage to the tires (especially one of them) and they never fixed it, or someone nailed a pothole or such knocking the alignment out and damaging a tire. I am anxious to talk to the mechanic who did the latest alignment to see if all of the numbers are in spec including caster and camber. My biggest fear is that one of the non-adjustable numbers (caster or camber) is out. The dealer who did the original alignment showed me the numbers and they were all in spec, but of course I don't trust dealers very much. At this point as long as the tires don't wear prematurely and unevenly then I will be OK with what I have.
 

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I have noticed (a very slight problem) this in my own 2009 GLS Sonata; but with two brands of tires, the original Michelins and also with the replacement Hankooks on the 17" wheels. The "crown" business is a lot of hooey. It is utter nonsense. Since both brands of tires exhibited the same problem, I attribute it to something else such as a faulty alignment or dragging brakes; something of that nature. And I agree that both the front and back need to be aligned.

I'll tell you how a vehicle ought to track. I owned a '96 Ford Ranger 4x4. I could take my hands off the steering wheel and it would track straight down the road for well over a mile or more and never need any correction. That's how it should work. And I also owned a new 1991 Ford Ranger 4x4 that always pulled to one side and it WAS the alignment. The service adviser finally tipped me to this problem. Previous to this I was given the "fresh air and sunshine" treatment.

I would also recommend an outside possibility; and it probably had nothing to do with the problem but to cover all the bases, I would recommend using an accurate torque wrench (criss-crossing the bolts) to ensure the wheels are perfectly tight all the way around. Rule out everything and anything that could account for this problem.

If the District Manager won't give satisfaction, I would push the problem all the way to the CEO of the company to get to the bottom of this problem. I'll bet there is a fix. Even though it is slight, it is both annoying and totally unacceptable. The "crown" business is garbage. Unless a tire truly has a slipped belt it is probably not the problem, although it is possible as I have seen this before. But swapping from front to rear ought to rule that out as well.

Just my $0.02.
 

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QUOTE (rmissourimule @ Nov 21 2009, 12:17 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=279959
The "crown" business is garbage. Unless a tire truly has a slipped belt it is probably not the problem, although it is possible as I have seen this before. But swapping from front to rear ought to rule that out as well.

Just my $0.02.
I did have a bad tire before because when the tires were rotated the pull would be worse or even change sides. With new tires it behaves much better.

The left lane on the highway I drive is very sloped and I can guarantee any car will drift down it, even your Ranger. My Sonata drifts worse than my wife's Accord, but the Accord will still go down this slope. On a relatively flat road (flat to minor crown) my Sonata is straight. When the dealer did the first alignment he showed my the numbers and they were all in spec (according to them). I still need to talk to my independent mechanic and see what numbers he got but I suspect they will be in spec.

The Sonata is an older design and the chassis was never a great design in the first place. It is simply inferior to other cars like the Accord and Mazda6 for this issue plus others such as suspension compliance (suspension clunk anyone?) and overall handling. For me I was willing to make this tradeoff for the other things I like about the Sonata.

I am not quite done with this yet. I still think it pulls down a left slope more than the right. I am going to go to the dealer and get them to let my try another one off the lot for comparison. If the others act the same then the final conclusion is the car design is simply inferior. If the other car(s) behave better then I will have some ammunition to get it fixed. At the end of the day I am OK with what I have now as long as the tires wear properly.
 

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QUOTE (axreyb @ Nov 22 2009, 10:35 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=280210
I did have a bad tire before because when the tires were rotated the pull would be worse or even change sides. With new tires it behaves much better.

The left lane on the highway I drive is very sloped and I can guarantee any car will drift down it, even your Ranger. My Sonata drifts worse than my wife's Accord, but the Accord will still go down this slope. On a relatively flat road (flat to minor crown) my Sonata is straight. When the dealer did the first alignment he showed my the numbers and they were all in spec (according to them). I still need to talk to my independent mechanic and see what numbers he got but I suspect they will be in spec.

The Sonata is an older design and the chassis was never a great design in the first place. It is simply inferior to other cars like the Accord and Mazda6 for this issue plus others such as suspension compliance (suspension clunk anyone?) and overall handling. For me I was willing to make this tradeoff for the other things I like about the Sonata.

I am not quite done with this yet. I still think it pulls down a left slope more than the right. I am going to go to the dealer and get them to let my try another one off the lot for comparison. If the others act the same then the final conclusion is the car design is simply inferior. If the other car(s) behave better then I will have some ammunition to get it fixed. At the end of the day I am OK with what I have now as long as the tires wear properly.
Actually my 1996 Ranger didn't pull even on "crowned" roads. For that matter, neither does my 2008 Sonata. Only the 2009 does (slightly.)

I'm not sure what you mean about an inferior design. So far as I know most modern front wheel drive vehicles use the MacPherson strut arrangements and it is pretty much standard issue stuff. My 2008 Sonata is as solid as a rock even with 25K on the odometer. I've yet to find any real problems although I believe the 2009 model has much improved ergonomics and detail changes that make it a more desirable vehicle.

I will argue until the cows come home that if the tires are not defective that no car should be affected by any crowns in the roads or other handy excuses. I used to hear this song and dance when I worked as a service writer at at Cadillac/Pontiac dealership. It was bunk then and it is bunk now. Cars should not pull to either side; crown or no crown.

I'll give you an example of another vehicle I owned. I purchased a new 1981 Saab 900 with original equipment Michelin tires. It did not pull and I drove that car thousands of miles over every kind of road and it never pulled either direction. I replaced these tires with Goodyears and it started pulling left. It got so bad and annoying I took off the almost new Goodyears and reinstalled the original Michelins which were not yet worn out. Problem went away. I also had a 1978 Lemans with Goodyears that had a tire with a bad belt. I had a 1999 Mercury Mystique that I fought for years with pulling to the right. I took it into the local tire store and said to align it. They came out and said the alignment was right on the money. Turned out to be the tires. Replaced them and the problem went away.

If the tires are not defective and the alignment specs are truly on target, it should track straight down the highway. Anyone who says otherwise is smoking something or giving excuses. I absolutely, positively guarantee that if the tires are not defective and the alignment is on target it will track straight as an arrow.
 

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Wonder if that issue actually has to do with the dreaded torque steer, which already affects many FWD V6, not just Sonatas or other Hyundais. I was almost positive that may be the case here, until someone dropped that his/her I4 has the same issue...
Anyway, just consider that possibility; if that's the case, I'm afraid there's not much to do (some car makers engineered their cars to compensate for that pull -in some cars being really strong-). I think a good test to see if it's torque steer would involve checking whether the pull is much stronger when accelerating, while it should be minimal to none while coasting.
 

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QUOTE (old george @ Nov 22 2009, 09:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=280338
Wonder if that issue actually has to do with the dreaded torque steer, which already affects many FWD V6, not just Sonatas or other Hyundais. I was almost positive that may be the case here, until someone dropped that his/her I4 has the same issue...
Anyway, just consider that possibility; if that's the case, I'm afraid there's not much to do (some car makers engineered their cars to compensate for that pull -in some cars being really strong-). I think a good test to see if it's torque steer would involve checking whether the pull is much stronger when accelerating, while it should be minimal to none while coasting.


Torque steer was indeed a very real problem on some of the earlier front wheel drive vehicles but I don't see that as the reason this would happen today. Frankly, I'm hard pressed to discern the difference between a front wheel drive vehicle and rear wheel vehicle today. The original GM "X" body cars pulled hard to the right as I recall but that was the least of the problems for those cars. You name it, they had about everything wrong with them. Today's front drivers shouldn't experience any of these problems much less drifting one way or another. I would feel comfortable in stating that I could drive my 2008 down any road for well over a mile without any drift whatever. Therefore, my identical 2009 which does drift slightly to the left obviously has some kind of issue although it is not serious enough for me to take to the dealer although I will register a complaint the next time I visit the dealership, just to get it on the record. I also have a good relationship with the service department and if there is a problem I'll find out about it.

I'd bet there is an alignment problem either front or rear or possibly a dragging brake. I would almost surely rule out the tires since I have experienced the identical problem with two different sets of tires; the original 16" tires and the 17" tires I have on the 'Limited' wheel and tire set I replaced them with. There was no difference whatever. There were no miles on the Limited set of Hankook tires either. As I recall I did not pick up the problem until I had about 3,000 miles on the original 16" Michelin tires. Perhaps there is a clue there somewhere.
 

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QUOTE (rmissourimule @ Nov 22 2009, 01:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=280244
I'm not sure what you mean about an inferior design. So far as I know most modern front wheel drive vehicles use the MacPherson strut arrangements and it is pretty much standard issue stuff. My 2008 Sonata is as solid as a rock even with 25K on the odometer. I've yet to find any real problems although I believe the 2009 model has much improved ergonomics and detail changes that make it a more desirable vehicle.
Just to clarify the NF Sonata does not use a MacPherson strut suspension it uses double-wishbone at the front and multi-link in the rear. It is actually a fairly advanced setup although the tuning and implementation may not be up to everyone's expectations.
 

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QUOTE (rallyman @ Nov 23 2009, 10:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=280475
Just to clarify the NF Sonata does not use a MacPherson strut suspension it uses double-wishbone at the front and multi-link in the rear. It is actually a fairly advanced setup although the tuning and implementation may not be up to everyone's expectations.
Appreciate the information. That's what I get for making assumptions.

Just offhand, is there a particular advantage one way or another? It was always my understanding the MaPherson setup was for simplification and cost effectiveness.
 

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QUOTE (rallyman @ Nov 23 2009, 06:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=280475
Just to clarify the NF Sonata does not use a MacPherson strut suspension it uses double-wishbone at the front and multi-link in the rear. It is actually a fairly advanced setup although the tuning and implementation may not be up to everyone's expectations.
I wonder which parts Australia got in their 2006 NF Models?

"The impressive standard feature list includes six airbags, ABS brakes and 4-way active front head restraints. The new front end comprises of double wishbone suspension for precise steering and high speed handling. Australian models also receive European suspension calibration consisting of higher spec firmer shock absorbers for a sportier ride."
 
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