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Hi there, I have 2 newbie questions - Sonata 09 Limited 2.4.

With the 17in stock summer tires and stock wheels, the steering tends to shake/vibrate at highway speed, more at certain speeds than others, but not felt in city driving. This is constant. I recently did the brakes in front by the way and it made no change so I assume the rotors are not part of the equation.

When I recently put 16in steelies with winter tires, 100% of the shake/vibration is gone. Could it be just balancing of the mag wheels? or am I looking more probably at bent or out of round wheels? My idea was to send the 2 front wheels in the back in the spring (since they have less thread than back ones anyway) and see how much improvement (or worsening) I see and start with having the balancing checked... what do you think?

Also, the new front brake pads are Thermoquiet ceramic NIX or something similar for which you do not use back shims and do not lubricate the back of the pads either as clearly stated by Wagner (rotors are premium quality, zinc coated). There is a light but constant high pitch squeal about mid pedal that goes away as soon as I brake more. i did the bedding procedure, waited 3 weeks now and still no improvement....

First of all, this might sound stupid, but how can I know if it's the front or back brakes that squeal? it's too light for me to know for sure if it's front/back left/right... Any hints to improve the situation?

thanks for your time and help as always
 

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The tire shake /vibration at highway speeds definitely sounds like a simple balance issue so you're on the right track to have them both balanced.
As far as the brake squeal i would just take it to a local shop that does free brake inspections and have them check it out. They will most likely try to sell you something but just say no thanks. Just use them to inspect your brakes.
Sent from my SCH-I535
 

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There is no "simple balance issue" with mag wheels. Many shops do not have the equipment to do it right. You need a dual plane balance where the inside plane is balanced with weights on the inside outer edge of the rim (where it meets the tire) and the outside plane is balanced with stick-on weights on the inside of the the wheel close to the outside (because the rim has no lip for weights on the outside outer edge). If there is a lip on the outside for weights it is very easy to balance if you do not mind the look of the weights.

Some, not all, Goodyear Tire Stores have the equipment (some call it Road Force Balancing) and others probably do also. Do a search of the internet so you know what to ask for and look for when you have it done. You will be able to tell the difference driving at 85 or 90 mph.
 

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There is no "simple balance issue" with mag wheels. Many shops do not have the equipment to do it right. You need a dual plane balance where the inside plane is balanced with weights on the inside outer edge of the rim (where it meets the tire) and the outside plane is balanced with stick-on weights on the inside of the the wheel close to the outside (because the rim has no lip for weights on the outside outer edge). If there is a lip on the outside for weights it is very easy to balance if you do not mind the look of the weights.

Some, not all, Goodyear Tire Stores have the equipment (some call it Road Force Balancing) and others probably do also. Do a search of the internet so you know what to ask for and look for when you have it done. You will be able to tell the difference driving at 85 or 90 mph.
+1, have it road force balanced.
 

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There is no "simple balance issue" with mag wheels. Many shops do not have the equipment to do it right. You need a dual plane balance where the inside plane is balanced with weights on the inside outer edge of the rim (where it meets the tire) and the outside plane is balanced with stick-on weights on the inside of the the wheel close to the outside (because the rim has no lip for weights on the outside outer edge). If there is a lip on the outside for weights it is very easy to balance if you do not mind the look of the weights.

Some, not all, Goodyear Tire Stores have the equipment (some call it Road Force Balancing) and others probably do also. Do a search of the internet so you know what to ask for and look for when you have it done. You will be able to tell the difference driving at 85 or 90 mph.
This is a simple balancing. You're talking like it's some kind of groundbreaking development. Every place that sells tires and wheels has the proper equipment to balance them. Even Sears uses the stick on weights on the inside of my Camry rims and have been doing it for years. I don't think he would have to tell them what type of balancing he needs, they'll know as soon as they see the wheels.

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I bought 4 tires at Goodyear and asked if they did balancing with sticky weights. They said yes and did it. After 2 returns to try to eliminate high speed vibration the manager told me his machines could not do a 2 plane balance on mag wheels and sent me to a GY store 15 min. down the road that did it right the first time. Speak to the manager to make sure they can do a proper balance.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There is no "simple balance issue" with mag wheels. Many shops do not have the equipment to do it right. You need a dual plane balance where the inside plane is balanced with weights on the inside outer edge of the rim (where it meets the tire) and the outside plane is balanced with stick-on weights on the inside of the the wheel close to the outside (because the rim has no lip for weights on the outside outer edge). If there is a lip on the outside for weights it is very easy to balance if you do not mind the look of the weights.

Some, not all, Goodyear Tire Stores have the equipment (some call it Road Force Balancing) and others probably do also. Do a search of the internet so you know what to ask for and look for when you have it done. You will be able to tell the difference driving at 85 or 90 mph.
Thanks for the info about the RF balancing! found a couple of places real close by that have the machine.... will definitely not waste any time and get them balanced there before putting the mags back on in the spring... thanks again!!
 

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There's definitely some confusion in this thread about tire balancing. I know at least a little about the issue, because I worked in a tire shop for four years in college and balanced many hundreds of tires.


There is no "simple balance issue" with mag wheels. Many shops do not have the equipment to do it right. You need a dual plane balance where the inside plane is balanced with weights on the inside outer edge of the rim (where it meets the tire) and the outside plane is balanced with stick-on weights on the inside of the the wheel close to the outside (because the rim has no lip for weights on the outside outer edge). If there is a lip on the outside for weights it is very easy to balance if you do not mind the look of the weights.

Some, not all, Goodyear Tire Stores have the equipment (some call it Road Force Balancing) and others probably do also. Do a search of the internet so you know what to ask for and look for when you have it done. You will be able to tell the difference driving at 85 or 90 mph.
There is such thing as a simple balance issue. The OP could have just lost a wheel weight or the tires are in need of a routine balancing. What you're describing is a dynamic balance. Pretty much any shop can do that, and a normal tire balance at any modern shop is a dynamic balance.

A road force number is completely different. People often say "road force balance," but it has nothing to do with the balance of the tire and wheel, but rather differences in uniformity in the tire that can cause vibration. That's the simple explanation.

This is a simple balancing. You're talking like it's some kind of groundbreaking development. Every place that sells tires and wheels has the proper equipment to balance them. Even Sears uses the stick on weights on the inside of my Camry rims and have been doing it for years. I don't think he would have to tell them what type of balancing he needs, they'll know as soon as they see the wheels.
This.

I bought 4 tires at Goodyear and asked if they did balancing with sticky weights. They said yes and did it. After 2 returns to try to eliminate high speed vibration the manager told me his machines could not do a 2 plane balance on mag wheels and sent me to a GY store 15 min. down the road that did it right the first time. Speak to the manager to make sure they can do a proper balance.
I think you or the person you talked to were confused. I think the first store you went to either just did it wrong in the first place or didn't know what they were doing. A Road Force capable machine has nothing to do with a dynamic balance.

Some of the more expensive balancers can try to hide the outer sticky weights behind the spokes of the rim, but that isn't really necessary. I don't know what kind of equipment they had, but when I worked in a shop like 8 years ago we had simple balancers that could have easily balanced your tires.

I don't now what kind of equipment they have, but if they couldn't do a dynamic balance on an aluminum wheel, they they must have had very, very outdated equipment, their normal equipment was broken or something weird was at play.

Thanks for the info about the RF balancing! found a couple of places real close by that have the machine.... will definitely not waste any time and get them balanced there before putting the mags back on in the spring... thanks again!!
The info given above about Road Force numbers isn't correct.

Again, Road Force machines do two things. They do a normal tire balance, but they can also push on the tire to measure non-uniformities in the tire that can also cause vibration. That info can sometimes be used to better position the tire on the rim to minimize the issues and possibly eliminate the vibration.

Some shops that have Road Force machines don't actually use the Road Force feature and just use them as a normal balancer. People think they got a "road force balance," but they really just got a normal dynamic balance.

If they use the actual Road Force feature they'll tell you the road force number, which I believe is denoted in pounds, for each tire. If a tire had poor uniformity and a high road force number, it can vibrate on the highway even if it is properly balanced. In that situation, it would be the inconsistency in the tire itself causing the vibration, not the tire balance.

Measuring the road force numbers won't be necessary in most cases. In the vast majority of cases all that is needed is a normal dynamic balance. Road Force numbers help you track down vibrations that are being caused by the tire itself and not normal balancing issues.
 

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I agree with everything you are saying. The balancing I eventually received was a two plane (dynamic) balance on a RF machine. the problem I had, from observing the tech operating the first machine from afar, was that they switched the machine to a single plane balance when they put on mag wheels to be balanced. Maybe because they did not know how to do a 2 plane balance with sticky weights and there was no lip on the rim to hold the outside weights in place. Maybe because the shop told them to do it that way. Who knows? Bottom line was they did not do a 2 plane (dynamic) balance.

My web search led me to believe that all the machines currently in use should be able to do a dynamic balance of mag wheels, for some reason the shops are cutting corners and not doing it.
 

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the problem I had, from observing the tech operating the first machine from afar, was that they switched the machine to a single plane balance when they put on mag wheels to be balanced. Maybe because they did not know how to do a 2 plane balance with sticky weights and there was no lip on the rim to hold the outside weights in place.
Yup, this is the issue. They were only doing a static balance, where you only put weights on the inside edge. Why they would do that, I have no idea. Like I said before, even a basic modern balancer can be set to put sticky weights on the inside of the rim near the outside edge, allowing for a dynamic balance. Or, as you note, on many aluminum rims there is a lip on the outside edge where they can add weights.

The only thing I will add is that I think you may have been unlucky and somehow ended up at a shop with untrained staff or bad equipment. From my experience buying tires and working in a tire shop, most people shouldn't run into the same problems you had when having aluminum rims balanced

Anyway, I'm glad you got your issue resolved.
 
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