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Discussion Starter #1
Something is fishy here. There is power to all bulbs even with a ground jumper to base they won't light. Double terminators are both hot. Hot wire the bulbs off the car and they all work. The double terminators should not be both hot, there is only one filament. Even with that problem the single terminator bulb should work with 12V and a ground on the car!

I re-did the grounds under the air cleaner and battery mount before I started troubleshooting as the wife said they flickered off a month ago.

Arc carbon relay contacts and or insufficient ground? Twilight Zone?
 

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Double terminators are both hot
you mean at the bulb end? are they discoloured or melted? Bulbs are good, good ground and power available at the bulb , hot connectors suggests dirty burnt contacts in the connector. post some photos up of the connector to the bulb
 

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Discussion Starter #3
you mean at the bulb end? are they discoloured or melted? Bulbs are good, good ground and power available at the bulb , hot connectors suggests dirty burnt contacts in the connector. post some photos up of the connector to the bulb
All the terminators and wires look new from every angle. By hot, I mean with power as in 'Hot Wired', sorry. I bought it new, but never drive it myself. I guess the outer most lights with the double terminators are the brights and both terminals have 12VDC. With the bulb jumpered directly to the battery it works as in positive and negative to each. Same thing with the single terminator inner lights grounded to the metal base. On the car they don't work. Never heard of two 12VDC's to a bulb like 220VAC to a heating element.
 

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Hi G2STAR, welcome to the forum.

Both terminals of the headlamp bulb being "hot" means the headlamp ground is open circuit. It's that simple.

What model of Elantra are we working with? Given that the headlamps on both sides of the car have failed I'm guessing a late XD Elantra?
A 2006 model could be an XD or an HD model. If you had posted in the correct forum we'd know what we're working with and be able to offer you better advise.
 

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Hi G2STAR, welcome to the forum.

Both terminals of the headlamp bulb being "hot" means the headlamp ground is open circuit. It's that simple.

What model of Elantra are we working with? Given that the headlamps on both sides of the car have failed I'm guessing a late XD Elantra?
A 2006 model could be an XD or an HD model. If you had posted in the correct forum we'd know what we're working with and be able to offer you better advise.
Open is arbitrary... With the double terminator disconnected both leads have 12VDC, one should be 12VDC and the other ground. For the single terminator, it should have 12VDC and the metal base should be ground.

With just a battery, wires, and the bulb they light up.

The model? I have tried from the beginning to find out what this car is. I can't even get the car out of my name. I have a Toyota van and can not find out what model it is either and get asked all the time.

In other words, why would the ground have 12VDC? I just checked the white wire on the double terminator and now it is grounded with everything off. When the car is 'on' it has 12VDC on the white wire, with no bulb involved. The red wire gets 12VDC when switched on.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There is an HD in the Vin. # Maybe that will help next time, I have had all kinds of problems finding parts for this car. Especially the tensioner for the timing belt. Am I on the wrong forum?
 

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Open is arbitrary...
Eh?

G2STAR said:
one should be 12VDC and the other ground.
Exactly, so the ground must be open circuit. If it wasn't you would have one wire with 12V and the other a ground.

G2STAR said:
For the single terminator, it should have 12VDC and the metal base should be ground.
Again, this suggests the ground is open circuit. If it wasn't the bulb would illuminate.

G2STAR said:
With just a battery, wires, and the bulb they light up.
Of course they do. Because they have power and ground.

G2STAR said:
In other words, why would the ground have 12VDC?
Because it IS NOT connected to ground. In other words the ground is open circuit/broken/disconnected from the vehicle body.


G2STAR said:
The model? I have tried from the beginning to find out what this car is.
It's not difficult to find out which model it is. The simplest way is go to Google and type "XD Elantra" into the search box then click "Images". If all the photos look like your car you own an XD Elantra. Repeat for "HD Elantra".

ALL Elantra models have HD in the VIN. That doesn't really tell you anything.
 

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Yes it looks like a XD.
Yeah, that's what I suspected.
I'm pretty sure both headlamps on the XD share a common ground (unlike the HD) which would explain why you "think" your ground is "hot".
But I suspect the ground wire isn't really "hot". I suspect it just appears to be because there is no current flowing in the circuit. No current flow = no voltage drop, hence 12V on both wires.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Head Lamps schematic and Ground Point G15 location attached, hope this helps. View attachment 441390 View attachment 441391

We fixed it ! Thanks. There are two ground connections under the battery. The bad one has about seven black wires. I split them up and soldered two wires to the seven and down to a single soldered flattened hook to go under the main ground. Even the turn left signal stopped flashing fast.

I still do not understand the ground (white) on the double terminator showed power... Plus, where the white turns into black. Yeah, lets put the headlight ground under sulfuric acid. I would love to see a video of the professor teaching engineered obsolescence in 'The Far Side' fashion. The lights go out and the rusted steel brake lines fail!
441401
 

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We fixed it ! Thanks.
Your welcome. Glad I was able to help.

G2STAR said:
I still do not understand the ground (white) on the double terminator showed power
It's pretty obvious if you study the circuit diagram.
Voltage is applied to the bulb in one headlamp, passes though the bulb filament and into the open circuit ground. When you measure the voltage on the ground wire in the other headlamp you see +12V.

G2STAR said:
I still do not understand...where the white turns into black.
That's pretty obvious from the diagram too. The diagram shows that the wire is black between the car body and the headlamp harness connector, meaning it must change to a white wire inside the headlamp, between the harness connector and the bulb.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Your welcome. Glad I was able to help.


It's pretty obvious if you study the circuit diagram.
Voltage is applied to the bulb in one headlamp, passes though the bulb filament and into the open circuit ground. When you measure the voltage on the ground wire in the other headlamp you see +12V.


That's pretty obvious from the diagram too. The diagram shows that the wire is black between the car body and the headlamp harness connector, meaning it must change to a white wire inside the headlamp, between the harness connector and the bulb.
Thank ya'll again. To be clear the bulbs where all disconnected and the single and the double terminators showed 12VDC, six in total. I understand electricity, that should not happen. The connectors to the light units had around 9 wires and look very good, forgot to look for a black wire comming out of that plug. Figured it was a ground problem, but power from the white ground does not sound right. Not like I've never run into strange things while troubleshooting.
 

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Reading the voltage of a battery with a volt meter will read 12 volts
Hook up a resistor to the positive side and let the other side hang free
Both ends of the resistor will read 12 volts.
The end that is connected to the battery will read 12 volts
And the other end of the resistor will read 12 volts. Due to no current flow.
Hook it up to battery negative or anything else going to battery negative
And the reading on that side of the resistor will change due to the current flow.

Almost any student of electricity would know this
Self educated on electricity would take a little longer to be exposed to such situations
 
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