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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum and i'm struggling to sort out a problem with my girlfriends Getz. She has an 2006 reg 1.1 Atlantic edition which has had a problem for a month or too.

It all began when the exhaust link pipe failed at the flexi and the exhaust was knackered. she relies on the car for work so it was a while before we got it booked in to be fixed and the orange light started flashing but we assumed it was just the fact the exhaust was knackered. It was also running sluggish and burning loads of fuel which we just put down to low back pressure and the sensors probably reading funny.

We got it fixed and since then the engine management light flashes when you go above 5,000 rpm and it is still using loads of fuel. If you continue to do it the light stays on. I disconnected the battery to remove it but it came back on a few days later.

I took it in to the local garage who popped it on the diagnostic and it brought up the codes p301 and p304 indicating a multiple misfire on cylinders 1 and 4. I know there are 2 coils, one that does 1 and 4 and the other does 2 and 3. We put it down to the fact this had failed as it is pretty logical if it flags just 2 cylinders as misfiring and they work off the same coil.

I bought a new coil pack from ebay for £50 and its not fixed the problem, it still flashes and struggles to start. I'm livid. :(

I'm pretty handy with a spanner so I need your advice. Tell me what to try next. Gutted I paid £50 for something it wasn't.

Help

Thanks in advance

Ben :)
 

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First of all, I would like to praise your post as it is clearly explained, without all the guessing and wondering normally found here.

Since you got the error codes signaling misfire from both cylinders controlled by one of the coils, then replaced the coil and still getting the problem, then the next thing to check is:

1) The wire harness and plug that feed the coil (check for both coils).

2) The spark plug cables. Since the car is already 5 yrs old, it wouldn't be strange to find out the cables are broken or their plugs are loose or bad.

3) Check the spark plugs too, even though a bad spark plug will not issue an error code.

-Can I presume you replaced the "correct" coil?

Let us know your findings.

BTW, when clearing error codes via battery disconnection, don't forget to press the brake pedal for a few seconds while the battery is disconnected. This will drain the current from the EXM's capacitors, thus assuring all error codes are erased.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks for the swift reply, I changed the spark plugs the other weekend as it was a quick win. Did not help though. I will check the HT leads but I'm not sure how to check these without replacing them. Could the fuel pump, fuel filter or injectors cause an issue? Just strange how it was specific to only 1 and 4.

The garage cleared the codes using the machine. I'll put a link up to the new coil I bought when I get chance.

Thanks
 

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Thanks for the swift reply, I changed the spark plugs the other weekend as it was a quick win. Did not help though. I will check the HT leads but I'm not sure how to check these without replacing them. Could the fuel pump, fuel filter or injectors cause an issue? Just strange how it was specific to only 1 and 4.

The garage cleared the codes using the machine. I'll put a link up to the new coil I bought when I get chance.

Thanks
Even thought the ignition coil you bought looks slightly different from the "drawing" in the service manual, it seems OK.

Error codes leading to cylinders 1 and 4 is definite its related to the ignition coil and related parts (connectors, cables, plugs).

Here is the service manual information about the coil and spark plug cables.

Don´t forget to check the coil connectors (cable harness plugs) for good contact for ground and to the ECM.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I popped into a local Hyundai dealer today and had a chat with the service lads, They were really sound and gave me an indication that it might be the after cat oxygen sensor that has become covered in soot when the exhaust was broken. So it is causing funny readings meaning that the fueling is incorrect causing it to misfire. I know you might think that it says it is specific to cylinders 1 and 4 but it might just be the case that the sensor is just picking up 1 and 4 and not quite picking up 2 or 3. It might even be just picking up a misfire on one cylinder but as the coils work in pairs it would still show both.

The chap said try remove the oxy sensor and clean it.

He also said the fault codes can't be removed by just anyone and that a dealer would need to wipe it completely. Is this true? I just removed the battery neg lead to clear the light but he said that wouldn't clear the fault log.

I read on the net something about pressing the brake peddle which seems weird to discharge a capacitor or something.

Thanks
 

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I popped into a local Hyundai dealer today and had a chat with the service lads, They were really sound and gave me an indication that it might be the after cat oxygen sensor that has become covered in soot when the exhaust was broken. So it is causing funny readings meaning that the fueling is incorrect causing it to misfire. I know you might think that it says it is specific to cylinders 1 and 4 but it might just be the case that the sensor is just picking up 1 and 4 and not quite picking up 2 or 3. It might even be just picking up a misfire on one cylinder but as the coils work in pairs it would still show both.

The chap said try remove the oxy sensor and clean it.

He also said the fault codes can't be removed by just anyone and that a dealer would need to wipe it completely. Is this true? I just removed the battery neg lead to clear the light but he said that wouldn't clear the fault log.

I read on the net something about pressing the brake peddle which seems weird to discharge a capacitor or something.

Thanks
About the aft O2 sensor giving weird readings, well my friend, in this computerized world, anything can happen. Removing the sensor and cleaning it means no cost and could fix the problem. Do so and let us know what happens.

Some error codes cannot be cleared by the battery method (or even the dealer with the appropriate scan gauge tool, but this codes are related mostly to security issues, like the air bag, collision sensor or such. They are made "non erasable" by law (in may countries) as such data can be used for legal matters. Any other code related to a malfunctioning part (from the engine, as in your case) can be cleared by the battery method.

The brake pedal thing has its purpose. Error codes are stored in a volatile EPROM in the ECM. The EPROM stores all error codes as well as your "driving habits". The ECM will loose the stored information (no problem here) if left unplugged (disconnected from power source), but since the ECM does have a few capacitors inside, this capacitors need to be discharged completely in order to assure the EPROM has been cleared. By pressing the brake pedal, the car will "try" to turn on the brake lights, which will work ALWAYS. By doing do, the brake lights will "suck" whatever current is held anywhere in the car, including the ECM.

Anyway, if you manage to fix the problem by cleaning the O2 sensor, then the light will not come on again and the error code will clear itself after several engine on/of cycles.

Suggestion: Tell the guys at the local Hyundai dealership, that you are willing to take their word about the O2 sensor being dirty or bad. Tell them to go ahead and fix the problem, but tell them that you will pay for "solutions" and not for more guessing work or replacement parts and jobs not needed to fix anything.

Pls keep us posted
 

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Discussion Starter #8
We are just waiting for Hyundai to resolve the recall issue before I can tell you if we have got the problem sorted and if it definitely was the crank shaft sensor. Will keep you all posted.
 

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We are just waiting for Hyundai to resolve the recall issue before I can tell you if we have got the problem sorted and if it definitely was the crank shaft sensor. Will keep you all posted.

I probably got lost somewhere before around this thread. First thing I read about the crank shaft sensor. Anyway, let the guys at the Hyundai shop sort out the problem. Just make sure they charge you for a REAL SOLUTION and not "let's try this and that....".

Pls keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thing is it could be a number of things, That's the problem. They have said today that the part that could have failed is a disc on the pulley which runs close to the crank sensor, this in turn could have damaged the sensor. Apparently they reckon the warrenty/recall issue would have been changed during a routine service and without us knowing. So they are wriggling their way out of that one. The part is approx £10 to buy but it involves taking the timing belt off to change so its all labour costs. Hyundai want about £400 and we are not happy about it at all.

Would you know what part this is? Apparently its some sort of disc behind the pulley wheel? They say that there is a chance that the sensor has been damaged by this disc. The problem is they say they will not know for sure until they strip it down. All they said was it could be this and it could be that. Hence why we are not impressed.

Cheers
 

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Thing is it could be a number of things, That's the problem. They have said today that the part that could have failed is a disc on the pulley which runs close to the crank sensor, this in turn could have damaged the sensor. Apparently they reckon the warrenty/recall issue would have been changed during a routine service and without us knowing. So they are wriggling their way out of that one. The part is approx £10 to buy but it involves taking the timing belt off to change so its all labour costs. Hyundai want about £400 and we are not happy about it at all.

Would you know what part this is? Apparently its some sort of disc behind the pulley wheel? They say that there is a chance that the sensor has been damaged by this disc. The problem is they say they will not know for sure until they strip it down. All they said was it could be this and it could be that. Hence why we are not impressed.

Cheers
With all due respect, all that sounds like a lot of B.S.

The crank sensor goes in the back of the engine, very close to the transmission mount. In any case, the crank sensor is either activated by a magnet in the main flywheel or one of the lobes in the crankshaft. That is BEHIND the engine. The timing belt and all the pulleys are IN FRONT of the engine. Absolutely nothing related to the timing belt, pulleys, tensioneers, etc (timing belt parts) have anything to do with the crank position sensor.

If they are talking about the camshaft position sensor, this is driven by the camshaft istelf and its located also at the REAR of the engine, very close to the ignition coils. Again, no part from the timing belt system will affect the camshaft position sensor.

Both sensors work as standalone devices. They rely ONLY on the position and movement of large parts, as the crankshaft, flywheel or camshaft. There are no "small" parts or pulleys related. If one of both of the sensors are not working, is because they are bad (or the wire harness is bad), or in worst case scenario, you have a very BROKEN ENGINE down to pieces, which is not your case.

I cannot think of a low cost part related to this sensors. Its either the sensors (which should cost around $30 to 50 each), or one of the major components (crank, cam or flywheel) which will run for several hundred $$$ each.

If i were you, I would demand speaking to the shop manager and have him explain you -in layman terms- everything that's been done or doing. Ask them to show you the car during the work procedure, just to make sure they are doing something as they are supposed. Also as for any or all used parts that were supposed to be bad.

Pls, keep us posted on your findings.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Have you got a part number for the crank shaft sensor? Also is there a picture of the crankshaft sensor location, the diagram you put up is poor. I had a look this evening in the engine bay and saw a number of sensors just not sure on the exact one

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Turns out it was the crank shaft sensor that was causing it to run poorly and misfire. Its all back to running spot on again
 

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Thing is it could be a number of things, That's the problem. They have said today that the part that could have failed is a disc on the pulley which runs close to the crank sensor, this in turn could have damaged the sensor. Apparently they reckon the warrenty/recall issue would have been changed during a routine service and without us knowing. So they are wriggling their way out of that one. The part is approx £10 to buy but it involves taking the timing belt off to change so its all labour costs. Hyundai want about £400 and we are not happy about it at all.

Would you know what part this is? Apparently its some sort of disc behind the pulley wheel? They say that there is a chance that the sensor has been damaged by this disc. The problem is they say they will not know for sure until they strip it down. All they said was it could be this and it could be that. Hence why we are not impressed.

Cheers
Like the other poster said. This does sound like BS. It doesn't matter how difficult the sensor is to get to, they would be able to check the sensor and wiring harness to the connector by reading the voltages and resistance at the ECM. Every sensor on the car connects to the ECM, either directly or indirectly.

In simple terms... if they can't get to the sensor to check it, without causing you labour charges, then tell them to check the wires leading to the sensor.
 

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Even thought the ignition coil you bought looks slightly different from the "drawing" in the service manual, it seems OK.

Error codes leading to cylinders 1 and 4 is definite its related to the ignition coil and related parts (connectors, cables, plugs).

Here is the service manual information about the coil and spark plug cables.

Don´t forget to check the coil connectors (cable harness plugs) for good contact for ground and to the ECM.
Hi there, I am just wondering what are the positive and negative parts of the two connectors on the diagram
 

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Hi there, I am just wondering what are the positive and negative parts of the two connectors on the diagram
The positive terminal of the connector is the one that has +12V on it when the ignition is switched on. The other terminal is negative, but only when the ECU triggers the coil while the engine is running.


If I helped you fix it, why not...

Your support is greatly appreciated
 

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Do you have a picture example of this? I just need to know which wire is positive and negative going into the connector as I want to wire a rev limiter onto the car.
 
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