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https://docplayer.net/38978662-Cons...tion-in-gasoline-direct-injection-engine.html

Positive crankcase ventilation(Blow-by) was not related to carbon deposit formation
This is pretty scary because so many believe their c̶a̶t̶c̶h̶ condensation cans are doing something positive. I'd consider these three ideas. Condensed fuel is wasted fuel. Captured/condensed oil could benefit engine as upper cylinder lube. Water vapor could reduce detonation/preignition like water injection.

Since condensation cans, with their plumbing, can decrease PCV flow, it can increase oil contamination by not allowing enough fuel/moisture/vapor to vent. So, one must weigh the pros/cons. This is why none of my cars run catch cans.

Want to add a vacuum pump? Go for it
This is very interesting considering how much catch cans are being championed as the best solution. It reminds me of some research I saw posted on the bobistheoilguy forums a few months ago (I’ll share if I can find it again). The findings saw a much higher rate of deposits on engines using full synthetic exclusively, which was fascinating. The post was a couple years old, but I’m surprised it didn’t generate more discussion about the general best practices for gdi engines.

Note: it’s entirely possible I am misremembering the chart that was posted. But if I read it correctly longer intervals between changes caused more problems with Group 4 oils.
Found the thread:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4570755/6
 

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Caltex hinted more deposits from synthetic oil because the interval is usually higher on cars that call for synthetic. Since we suffer from this malady, we all should consider a severe service interval and quality aftermarket filter, regardless of the type of oil. Keeping the oil clean might be the secret to preventing rapid IVD buildup.
 

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There's a reason the service interval for severe duty (all of Canada) is 3750 miles (roughly 5000 km) using synthetic 5W-30 on these cars. Although to be honest most of that is due to ash contamination of the oil that is common to GDi engines and causes excessive wear of components.

I use Sea Foam top engine cleaner every 12,000 km through the PCV port on the intake, as well as a fuel system cleaner every oil change. At 49,100 km as of this morning, next oil change I'm going to remove the intake manifold and document how my intake valves look, I'll probably media blast them as well, if they have any carbon build up.

For history, I'm located in Calgary, AB and my drive to/from work is 11km each way which is terrible for the engine, I try and get a good 50-100km drive in each weekend to get fuel and condensation out of the crankcase.
 

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Hey guys,
So my 2016 Tucson Limited 1.6T is just about two years old and has about 34K km's on it.

I've found myself on youtube last weekend, deep in the rabbits hole and stumbled on how all GDI engines are prone to carbonization buildup.

I found that some of the best stuff on the market right now (aside from installing oil catch cans - which I plan on doing soon) is CRC intake valve and turbo cleaner. (Link here - GDI IVD? Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner, 311 Grams - Cleaner/Degreaser - Automotive)


Has anyone tried this out? I'm trying to find the correct spot to spray this stuff into, but can't find a good access point to the intake manifold.

I've also been recommended spraying towards the back in the throttle body - but wouldn't that go through the intercooler before heading into the intake manifold? I'm not sure if that's the best spot to spray it.

I took it into the dealer last week before work, and had a service tech call one of the mechanics from the back to help me understand the best place to spray the can. I was shocked he didn't know where would be best, and it seemed the service tech was a little embarrassed.

They both ultimately told me to just return the bottle, and it wasn't necessary.

I'm going on a roadtrip from Calgary to Kelowna (700 kms) on Wednesday and have an oil change scheduled for tomorrow.

Don't think i'll be able to spray this can in before the roadtrip, but hopefully someone has some experience and can help me out!

Thanks guys!
Thanks for posting the link. Don't forget Chevron Techron and Bg-44K

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-44k-fuel-system-cleaner/ . They also have a system to clean the top end completely which is used by dealerships. Already has it done. When they do the cleaning, they change the oil after the cleaning. Then you'll have to bring it back after about 1500 miles for another oil change.

thank God i dont have to deal with this crap. venting to atmosphere & using PUP 5w30 & 91 octane has proven best results for me. no carbon buildup no cleaning of the throttle body, intercooler, intake etc.
Actually you do, it's inherent with any GDI. This type of engineering fast fix to meet emission standards comes with these problems. Compounding it, is the use of higher compression and small turbocharges. https://www.enginebuildermag.com/20...e-direct-injection-issues-facts-fictions-gdi/

Venting does nothing but bypass some of the emission system and reduce crankcase pressure. This is decades old knowledge, with muscle cars and hotrods. Doesn't do anything to keep carbon deposits off of intake valves. There is only a few ways to deal with GDI problems. A complete disassembly of the top end of the engine, and blasting with walnut shells or other bio material. Or do a top end cleaning at 15K intervals, with a system like the Bg-44K system.

Take a look at how it's done at the Bg-44K website. There is no disassembly and there is an access port for such service. Why, because engineers knew it was going to be a problem when they designed the engines.:wink:

Utilizing top tier fuel or fuel additives keep the FI system clean. Fuel dilution relates directly to clogging of fuel injectors. Fuel additives, like Chevron Techron and Bg-44K clean injectors and exhaust valves. They don't do much for the intake valves. Fuel dilution + heat and fuel/air vapor turn into carbon deposits. Every engine has fuel blow-by past the rings no matter if old or new. More frequent oil changes than recommended by the manufacture, does help. Touting oil catch cans as a fix. is a myth. They catch a small amount of oil/fuel dilution from the emission system but fuel/oil dilution is an inherent problem. Crank pressure attribute to the recycled vapor. If a catch can is picking up a vast amount from the system, then you have other problems.

Test your oil between changes specifically for fuel/oil dilution at an oil testing lab. If it's below 2-3% you're ok. If it's above 4% you need to do something about it. Change your oil more frequently, then letting it go longer between oil changes. Instead of assuming the synthetic oil can handle it. It's not about the oil, it's about being diluted with fuel. GDI's have been around for a while, some longer than 2 decades. Don't panic or get worried about it. Simply, take care of the engine.

Cheers
 

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Test your oil between changes specifically for fuel/oil dilution at an oil testing lab. If it's below 2-3% you're ok. If it's above 4% you need to do something about it.

This is the absolute best information on this situation covered on the whole problem!
Do a oil sample at every oil change and then make adjustments upon the oil sample results!
 

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What was said above would be correct. An oil catch can isn't a be all end all for GDI problems, and in a climate as cold as Canada can be, arguably a dangerous option. Imagine you have a can that separates water from the oil, meaning there's water in the PCV hoses as well, and let the car sit overnight at -30°C. The water can freeze, completely plugging the PCV system of the engine, and since we all seem to know how quickly (/s) our Tucson's generate heat, odds are you'll apply turbo boost and the subsequent blow by pressure while the system is clogged. Weakest points after that are seals, in particular crankshaft seals.
 

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[ame]https://youtu.be/48JSlXlvMC0?t=561[/ame]

Problem with the BG system is that it is overpriced at dealers. And, spray can cleaners from Gumout, CRC, Seafoam, Amsoil, RoyalPurple, Berryman,... do just a good job <$20 and an hour of your time.

These are the typical for the non DIY crowd.
https://www.bgprod.com/services/gasoline-fuel-services/gdi-fuelair-induction/
EasyGDI™ | Valvoline
https://www.motorvac.com/index.cfm?...EL/__GDi_FUEL_RAIL_AND_INDUCTION_KIT&id=77710

Seriously cold northern climates need to invest in a battery wrap warmer, block heater, oil pan heater, and even a transmission pan heater. But, most would rather complain about issues and not use an extension cord.
 

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I'd take everything but the battery wrap, mainly since I park indoors overnight. But having heaters for the crankcase oil and DCT oil would be nice, don't think these 7-speeds have an actual transmission pan to speak of though. Wonder if there's anything like a block heater that threads into the DCT drain plug though. Just a plug with a heater element coil and a wire to plug in.
 

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When considering a top end treatment, you need something with PEA in it. It's the only one of the nitrogen detergents that is worth a hoot for valve coke. Seafoam products still contain none of it and will only clean up the throttle plate/body and maybe a little in the manifold...won't do much for pistons and rings either. I think using cleaners without PEA is a waste of time and money and gives a false sense of insurance even when used (as these should be) as regular maintenance rather than a too-late cleanup attempt. PEA is also the best for fuel tank treatments but the other similar detergents do ok there for injectors...but it's the only choice for GDI intake/valves.
 

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I watched most of this guy's chem videos and he doesn't seem to know a flip about what he's doing, nor understands the products. Every video is the same and they were all a waste of time to begin with - dude needs to unbutton and blast everything if not just replace valves. Both engines he shows were so neglected that no chem spray treatment is going to do a **** thing at that point even with multiple applications and patience. Looks like he's more interested in click-revenue and affiliated link dividends. Very poor content.
 

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The video shows typical before/after cleaning of IVD deposits. These form even when vehicle is well maintained. You dont need to neglect a GDI engine to get IVD. It just happens. I didnt watch any other of his videos or even the beginning part and why I posted the final results of the sprays used. Deposits seen and cleaning amounts are very typical to what was seen in the video. That is the world of GDI!

Seafoam and other non-PEA sprays can clean carbon.
 

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Do a oil sample at every oil change and then make adjustments upon the oil sample results!
99.9% of even DIY folks will no way double their cost of an oil change by paying for a sample test each time. Most take their car in for an oil change for the convenience of not getting their hands dirty, now we expect them to ship off a sample for analysis?
 

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99.9% of even DIY folks will no way double their cost of an oil change by paying for a sample test each time. Most take their car in for an oil change for the convenience of not getting their hands dirty, now we expect them to ship off a sample for analysis?
How is it possibly you are aware 99.9% of the DIY'er, won't? Truthfully. you have no way of knowing such information. :amen::lurk:

However, it's their loss. Once the Fuel/Oil dilution level is identified, then a proper oil change schedule can be established. After this, they can send it off their samples every 3rd or 4th oil change.:smile:

This will give you the best information you can find on GDI cleaning.

Take a look at all their videos on You Tube by clicking on their Logo. I can tell you from direct first hand experience, the system works. It was recently done on my sons 2015 Kia Rio. It has regained fuel economy, optimal operation, and smooth running. It cost about $200-250 to have it done but is well worth the expense. Sure beats a tear down and walnut blasting of the head, intake and fuel rails. You can ignore it, and spend allot allot more later or spend it now. It's all about how you maintain the engine.

Pay special attention to the video provided it will explain how the system works with excellent working details and who the system actually functions.

https://www.bgprod.com/services/gas...l-system-service/https://youtu.be/P0rF7Mf-Q-8
5 Best Fuel Injector Cleaners of 2019 (And Why They Are Worth Buying!)

Looks like he's more interested in click-revenue and affiliated link dividends. Very poor content.
Most of You Tube is click revenue. However, there is truth in anything, and you have to look closely for it. Keep in mind your own words "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it.":grin2:

Cheers
 

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Do a oil sample at every oil change and then make adjustments upon the oil sample results!
99.9% of even DIY folks will no way double their cost of an oil change by paying for a sample test each time. Most take their car in for an oil change for the convenience of not getting their hands dirty, now we expect them to ship off a sample for analysis?
They might not BUT I will certainly spend the extra dollars for peace of mind on all three of my vehicles!!!
 

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The video shows typical before/after cleaning of IVD deposits. These form even when vehicle is well maintained. You dont need to neglect a GDI engine to get IVD. It just happens. I didnt watch any other of his videos or even the beginning part and why I posted the final results of the sprays used. Deposits seen and cleaning amounts are very typical to what was seen in the video. That is the world of GDI!

Seafoam and other non-PEA sprays can clean carbon.
Well aware first hand...but those are excessive really, which is how most people will bring their car to a wrench, so I guess maybe it's normal all things considered. Honestly would never waste the time or money on non-PEA for this especially knowing visually what condition they were in....too late. The light petro oils (mostly naptha) and alcohols in Seafoam and similar just cannot touch this, not even gently after several applications...they do ok on normal combustion carbon, though, save for oil rings unless they're not too bad. When GDI was first introduced in the US (it was either the Isuzu 3.5L or one of BMW's early ones) it took a couple years until every dealer was recommending the BG pressurized top end treatment rig as regular maintenance about every 7K miles (basically twice a year) in the same vein as using a fuel tank treatment. Over time as GM adopted direct injection (via Isuzu) and then Ford and others got into the game, they all stopped recommending it as maintenance (the mfrs anyway....dealers are another animal), and instead started to recommend it only when carbon buildup was confirmed and the treatment could be beneficial. I'm not sure what the collective reasoning is there, but for myself, seeing the evil side and later the less evil side with a good PEA product, I keep it up as regular, once a year. The difference in the valves of my own first two engines was remarkable. #1 gave it up spectacularly on the highway at only 80-ish thousand miles, but I had ignored/neglected it in this area and was never advised otherwise...new tech and trust in poor dealer wrenches. #2 was cared for correctly and finally gave in at 130-ish thousand but dang the valves were appreciably in great shape after regular use of CRC...probably would not have benefited much from blasting. Planning on doing the same with the Tucson and hopefully some other engineering quirk doesn't blindside me. Some other engines I've seen from other makers...honestly once they're coked up to any degree that is affecting performance, best to just blast them and skip any top end cleaner, as unfortunately expensive as that option is.
 

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Another point for any DIYers doing this...do take care to go slowly with the spray and try to minimize the air gap where you are inserting the tube. The cat on these engines is right up near the manifold so there's a greater chance for damage if you get foolish with the treatment. The air/fuel will be out of balance and varying, which the O2 and ECM will be trying to adjust for, but it will result in overrich condition for much of the treatment and if it's too out of whack then the cat can be overwhelmed. This is why it's important to do that long highway drive after the treatment. Just something to be aware of. On engines where you have more pipe between cat and manifold, the risk goes down somewhat. (edit: also should really consider doing this at the intake/throttle rather than port/hose elsewhere)
 

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I drive a 2017 Elantra Sport, with the 1.6L T-GDI engine. My dealer service advisor was not very helpful in identifying the correct vacuum hose to spray the CRC Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner into. Also unable to find much info online. I ended up spraying into the vacuum hose on top of the throttle body. I removed the clamp closest to the TB and sprayed into that vacuum hole. Seems to have worked fine, smelled like rotten eggs, no CEL, but it tried stalling during and afterwards. Seems to rev more freely now and initial impressions, is that gas mileage is improved a bit. Hope this helps!
 

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What's the best way to clean the 2.0 GDI? where would you
Spray the cleaner?
 

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What's the best way to clean the 2.0 GDI? where would you
Spray the cleaner?
Read the thread. Its in one of the earlier posts.
 
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