[sender.eric]

I noticed the gas is turning on more often. Could this be weather related, it is colder in Southern California but a few weeks ago I was getting 999MPG.

Unless the gas needs to fire up for safety reasons, if I am on Eco mode I really do not want the gas to kick in until the battery is low.

Any tips on how to ensure gas won't kick on? I already keep the AC off and only use the seat warmer/cooler. I try to use cruise control or drive gently and I never put the car in HEV mode unless I am on a road trip.

 

[JoeDooner]

I find it if you use either the seat warmer or the defroster, Gas will kick on.

 

[adjuster1111]

Turn off the HVAC. Turn on the seat heaters. Works about 90% of the time in Denver on a Sorrento

 

[AntonCBR]

Has anyone tested Webasto or similar?
I want some heat for kinds, on one hand and drive on EV on other.
Looks like Climate control starts ICE when heating is turned on. Webasto will heat Climate control cooling liquid, so it will warm up fast, but I am not sure, if it will prevent ICE from start.
Local Webasto dealer does not know usage experience...

 

[S-petersen]

I think it is more efficient to start the ICE to charge the battery while heating the car, instead of heating the car with electricity, because the waste heat is being used to heat the car.
There may also some heat used to warm other parts of the drive system to normal operating temp, Batteries are not great below normal operating temp, maybe the batteries get warmed as well?

 

[mungo544]

You must remember that, at the end of the day, this is a hybrid car. The gas engine is part of the complex hybrid system. If the engine starts, you have to trust that it is doing so for a reason.

 

[mungo544]

Has anyone tested Webasto or similar?
I want some heat for kinds, on one hand and drive on EV on other.
Looks like Climate control starts ICE when heating is turned on. Webasto will heat Climate control cooling liquid, so it will warm up fast, but I am not sure, if it will prevent ICE from start.
Local Webasto dealer does not know usage experience...

If you want to destroy your fuel economy, the best way to do it would be to install a gasoline fired space heater (not to mention the danger of using a gasoline fired heater). What could possibly go wrong?.

 

[AntonCBR]

To S-petersen:
As far as I know, engine and battery has completely separated cooling liquid systems, so they most likely do not interfere. Regarding economy, I have an option to charge for free, at my job. Gasoline I should by for my own...

To mungo544:
True, for the first post, but You ignoring, that Tucson warranty will not be lost, if I will order heater installation so heater CAN be part of the system too. Obviously, I will not install it, by myself, so safety is same anyway. Keep in mind, that batteries can fire up too, factory fuel system could be assembled with defect too... Lets not be paranoid.

At the end it would be great to hear an experience of using such system or possibly other ways to get heated without engine. There is a lot of skeptics around me. Some are laughing, some gets surprised, some dissuade...

 

[Gberkeley]

Real simple to control. I adjust the Climate Controls to:
Sync
Heat Temp all the way down, past numbers to Lo.
Air flow to Re-circulation.
Most times the ICE will turn off when I let off the accelerator. If not, I turn the car off and Re-boot.

 

[Gberkeley]

Oh, I then wear a jacket and use the seat warmer.
more than efforts me, most of the time. Longer trips, or if wife is with me, I set the temps up and let ICE warm the cabin while adding to the drive power and the battery charge.

 

[AntonCBR]

Same here, but I have figured out, that most of the time I am driving with kids. So I should run ICE almost every time I am driving. I can drive on the cool car, but this is not what I expect for this money. On the other hand driving with heating every time, makes no difference to PHEV vs HEV, expect additional 10k spent for that...

 

[mungo544]

To S-petersen:
As far as I know, engine and battery has completely separated cooling liquid systems, so they most likely do not interfere. Regarding economy, I have an option to charge for free, at my job. Gasoline I should by for my own...

To mungo544:
True, for the first post, but You ignoring, that Tucson warranty will not be lost, if I will order heater installation so heater CAN be part of the system too. Obviously, I will not install it, by myself, so safety is same anyway. Keep in mind, that batteries can fire up too, factory fuel system could be assembled with defect too... Lets not be paranoid.

At the end it would be great to hear an experience of using such system or possibly other ways to get heated without engine. There is a lot of skeptics around me. Some are laughing, some gets surprised, some dissuade...

I say give it a shot.

 

[AntonCBR]

So... Has anyone tested Webasto or similar?

 

[mungo544]

So... Has anyone tested Webasto or similar?

There are a ton of videos on youtube that detail the installation and operation of these contraptions, including the manufacturer's site. There are 2 types - air to air heaters that blow hot air over a heat exchanger (like a hot air furnace) and others that heat engine coolant. The smallest units are the size of a shoebox and require you to tap into the fuel tank of the car and run a separate exhaust pipe and muffler, as well as cut a 4 inch hole in the floor of the vehicle. They are generally used in rvs' and diesel trailer tractors, where fuel economy isn't an issue. It would cost well over $1000.00 to put one of these into service.

 

[AntonCBR]

There are a ton of videos on youtube that detail the installation and operation of these contraptions, including the manufacturer's site. There are 2 types - air to air heaters that blow hot air over a heat exchanger (like a hot air furnace) and others that heat engine coolant. The smallest units are the size of a shoebox and require you to tap into the fuel tank of the car and run a separate exhaust pipe and muffler, as well as cut a 4 inch hole in the floor of the vehicle. They are generally used in rvs' and diesel trailer tractors, where fuel economy isn't an issue. It would cost well over $1000.00 to put one of these into service.

Looks like you do not get the point. I have seen all these videos at least related with PHEV. At least I am googling that 2 weeks in the row. Probably you missing the point because you do not have PHEV...
My question is not related to pre-heater functions, or "how does it work". If you will read my first post carefully, you should notice, that my question is related to vehicle reaction on certain conditions to preheater opeartion. Only that. None of manufacturer's videos explain that, since that is out of scope of their product.
I do know a lot of possible pre-heater operation options, but if you would use Hyundai Tucson/SantaFe PHEV with preheater, you should know, that webasto and eberspaecher offers only one legit solution, that will not brake delaler warranty. That is why I am looking for users, that installed pre-heater and can tell me certain nuances.

 

[AntonCBR]

Actually I have found one and only one video that is explaining these nuances, but
1. video related to Toyota, not Hyundai
2. there is some odd nuances, that makes me ask another questions...

 

[mungo544]

Good luck with that. Personally, if I wanted to use a gasoline powered space heater in my car, I would use the air to air heat exchanger type, which would eliminate your worries about affecting the function of the vehicle's cooling system. If your main goal is to preheat the engine, I don't see how cutting into the oem cooling system would not void your warranty. Also, any solution that involves burning extra gasoline is going to cancel out any mpg gains from keeping the engine off. I really think your concern about the gas engine starting is overblown. You are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[AntonCBR]

Dealers sometimes offer preheaters to be installed by their service, so there is some way. I don't know their internal Dealer-factory agreements, to tell how is it done.

Offered option, by the way, heats coolant, not the engine. As far as I have found, HEV/PHEV vehicles has separate engine<->climate coolant loop, and preheater makes short-loop to heat only climate control radiator, so stopped engine should no be heated at all.
Regarding mpg, preheater consumes 0.3L/h average. Engine - aproximately 16L/100km at winter (-5C) so this is about 4L/h at avrege city speed ~25kmh. Obviously this is aproximately 10 times less, than engine.
And this gets obvious, if we will imagine, that on short distances (10km is my case), I have to heat approximately 50-100kg of aluminium engine (including over 4L of oil, cooling liquid...) and after that, I can get heat. At the end I finish my drive and all of that heat just dissipates in to air...
Instead of heating air only (ok, maybie additional 2 liters of coolant)

So approximately 1/3 of the year I will drive in HEV mode instead of EV. My average myling per year is ~12000km (7.5k miles), At HEV mode on short distances I will spend ~1K EUR Eberspecher costs ~1,3k EUR.

Ok, lets imagine worst scenario. Anyway, it will pay-off in 2-5 years.
But this is correct if preheater will prevent ICE to start.
Instead, I have worries, that preheater will simply bring heat faster, than ICE, but ICE itself will work same amount of time. In that case I will just spend additional 1.3k!

 

[S-petersen]

Now that I understand your situation better, If you preheat the engine, the fuel milage would be much greater, and the cabin would warm up instantly, so the engine would turn off quickly. so that would get you most of the way

 

[AntonCBR]

Yes, I have learned same thing. Actually I will have 2 options of preheater usage.
1. In case of very short distances preheat air inside, switch preheater and heating off (leave ventilation only), while driving. This can be enough for about ~15min driving.
2. switch preheater while driving. This will reduce fuel consumption, but still, start the engine on first few minute(s).