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Hi folks-our 2009 SantaFe was giving pretty decent mileage after breakin-usually in the range 9.0 to 9.6 l/100 km...about 29.5-31 mpg Imperial. This is all with the on-board computer, which seemed to be pretty close as we checked it when we first got the vehicle. Lately we seem to be in the range 10 to 11 l/100 km, which is up tp 20% worse. I don't think the brakes are draggy-they were free when I recently serviced them (ie-cleaning and lubricating slides and pad bearing points) and there doesn't seem to be any mouse activity under the hood. I am wondering if it is possibe that our government-mandated ethanol fuel (they say up to 10% ethanol may be in the 'regular') is causing this. I have gotten the best mileage with Shell V-power (their hi-test) and they claim it has zero ethanol in it. Unfortunately I rarely have a chance to frequent the Shell, owing to where we live. We also used to get good mileage with 2 of Shell's competitors using their regular but now it is just horrible. Has anyone else experienced this? I think ethanol has a lower heat of combustion than what the old regular gasoline had and maybe that is part of it? Our Santy has 45000km on the clock.

Pawper
 

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Using a ethanol blended fuel will give you worse fuel millage...However in cold climates no need to worry about your fuel freezing and is better for the environment.
 

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QUOTE (huskytodd @ Nov 9 2010, 08:01 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=370143
Using a ethanol blended fuel will give you worse fuel millage...However in cold climates no need to worry about your fuel freezing and is better for the environment.
No question about the first statement. The potential energy in a gallon of ethanol is about 76,000 BTU. The potential energy in a gallon of gasoline is about 116,000 BTU. Some quick division shows that ethanol has about 2/3 the energy per unit volume vs. gasoline. A 15% ethanol blend as we often find it here on our side of the parallel reduces mileage by a little over 5% as a result.

E85 (85% ethanol) will produce about 70% of the mileage you'd get from gasoline. Even heavily subsidized as it is here, that means that E85 should be selling for no more than 70% of the price of gas. However, it sells for considerably more than that (about 83% of the price of gas around here), making it a non-starter from an economic standpoint.

As for fuel freezing -- you must be kidding?! Pure unleaded gasoline freezes at about -150ºF, depending upon the blending done. Pure ethanol freezes at about -173ºF. I don't plan on having my vehicle in either climate. If the concern is moisture in the tank, that's another story, and it takes no where near a 15% ethanol blend to resolve that problem.

Last - whether ethanol blends are better for the environment needs to take into account the environmental costs of producing the ethanol. Some methods are horrible in this regard. Some are better. Corn isn't one of the better ones, and it's the most widely used -- so far.
 

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QUOTE (canderson @ Nov 9 2010, 10:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=370175
No question about the first statement. The potential energy in a gallon of ethanol is about 76,000 BTU. The potential energy in a gallon of gasoline is about 116,000 BTU. Some quick division shows that ethanol has about 2/3 the energy per unit volume vs. gasoline. A 15% ethanol blend as we often find it here on our side of the parallel reduces mileage by a little over 5% as a result.

E85 (85% ethanol) will produce about 70% of the mileage you'd get from gasoline. Even heavily subsidized as it is here, that means that E85 should be selling for no more than 70% of the price of gas. However, it sells for considerably more than that (about 83% of the price of gas around here), making it a non-starter from an economic standpoint.

As for fuel freezing -- you must be kidding?! Pure unleaded gasoline freezes at about -150ºF, depending upon the blending done. Pure ethanol freezes at about -173ºF. I don't plan on having my vehicle in either climate. If the concern is moisture in the tank, that's another story, and it takes no where near a 15% ethanol blend to resolve that problem.

Last - whether ethanol blends are better for the environment needs to take into account the environmental costs of producing the ethanol. Some methods are horrible in this regard. Some are better. Corn isn't one of the better ones, and it's the most widely used -- so far.
This is all about the farmers in Iowa. They have the first political caucus every four years and politicos from both parties pander to the extreme. If you want to make ethanol with the least cost, you would use sugar cane or sugar beets, but they don't.
 

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QUOTE (canderson @ Nov 9 2010, 12:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=370175
As for fuel freezing -- you must be kidding?!
We've talked about this before, canderson. Things are different here in Canada.... there are no palm trees like in Colorado. :grin:

Actually I used to seek out the Ethanol blends back when I had my premium-thirsty Nissan VQ. It was the cheapest way to prevent pinging, thanks to a slightly higher octane rating (the knock sensors apparently did nothing.) But the stuff really is political Kool-Aid, as johnaauld suggests. I would steer clear of it.
 

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QUOTE (Don67 @ Nov 9 2010, 06:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=370331
But the stuff really is political Kool-Aid, as johnaauld suggests. I would steer clear of it.
Alas - not an option here. When MTBE was discontinued, the ethanol "oxygenated" E10 (can be as high as E15) blend became mandatory here along the Front Range to combat "the brown cloud".
 

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QUOTE (canderson @ Nov 9 2010, 09:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=370175
No question about the first statement. The potential energy in a gallon of ethanol is about 76,000 BTU. The potential energy in a gallon of gasoline is about 116,000 BTU. Some quick division shows that ethanol has about 2/3 the energy per unit volume vs. gasoline. A 15% ethanol blend as we often find it here on our side of the parallel reduces mileage by a little over 5% as a result.

E85 (85% ethanol) will produce about 70% of the mileage you'd get from gasoline. Even heavily subsidized as it is here, that means that E85 should be selling for no more than 70% of the price of gas. However, it sells for considerably more than that (about 83% of the price of gas around here), making it a non-starter from an economic standpoint.

As for fuel freezing -- you must be kidding?! Pure unleaded gasoline freezes at about -150ºF, depending upon the blending done. Pure ethanol freezes at about -173ºF. I don't plan on having my vehicle in either climate. If the concern is moisture in the tank, that's another story, and it takes no where near a 15% ethanol blend to resolve that problem.

Last - whether ethanol blends are better for the environment needs to take into account the environmental costs of producing the ethanol. Some methods are horrible in this regard. Some are better. Corn isn't one of the better ones, and it's the most widely used -- so far.
Thanks for the detailed explanation, I do believe that the intention behind the promotional material available here in Canada is the moisture in the lines/tanks and the fact that water is soluble in ethanol and not gasoline makes it possible for the water molecule to attach itself to the fuel and be burned off....at least that is the theory I'm guessing.....Bottom line for me is I put it in my tank and my Hyundai goes...and if I avoid ethanol blends I go further..:)
 

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QUOTE (Don67 @ Nov 9 2010, 06:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=370331
We've talked about this before, canderson. Things are different here in Canada.... there are no palm trees like in Colorado. :grin:

Actually I used to seek out the Ethanol blends back when I had my premium-thirsty Nissan VQ. It was the cheapest way to prevent pinging, thanks to a slightly higher octane rating (the knock sensors apparently did nothing.) But the stuff really is political Kool-Aid, as johnaauld suggests. I would steer clear of it.
I wasn't aware of reduced mileage in ethanol. Do you know what gas stations sell only straight gas w/out ethanol?
 

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I think I'll try some injector cleaner, as mentioned above. The other thing is next time I get anywhere near a Shell station I will put in their hi-test. It states specifically on their hi-test pump that it contains no ethanol.
On the subject of ethanol--my conspiracy theory is : here in Ontario we have a harmonised sales tax (federal goods and services tax plus provincial sales tax) and this goes on top of the price we pay for gasoline. Nice trick to make us all pay more tax by forcing us to use ethanol, thereby reducing our fuel milage so we need to buy more 'gas'.
Pawper
 

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QUOTE (MajBach @ Nov 10 2010, 01:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=370536
Do you know what gas stations sell only straight gas w/out ethanol?
Sorry, I don't know. When I suggested avoiding the stuff I should have specified the higher advertised blends... up to 10% is pretty standard nowadays, but 15%+ I'd avoid. Pawper suggests Premium Shell as advertising "no ethanol", but that's a pricey option that is otherwise wasted on a Santa Fe.
 

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yes you are right ethanol has a lower heat of combustion and this may be the reason behind your mileage problem Ethanol fuel is a sustainable energy resource that is intended to provide economically friendly alternative to fossil fuels such as diesel and gasoline,but it gives a low mileage :thumbsup:
 
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