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Discussion Starter #21
totally agree, perception of value varies but if things like design, efficiency, driving dynamics, longevity and resale value matter then it's Toyota. If saving some amount of money with initial purchase matters most or getting an additional cupholder then it's Hyundai.

After owning Toyotas since 1974, I did NOT buy a Toyota when looking for a car to use as a Manufacturer's Rep for long trips through New England.

My Scion cured me of my Toyota fixation. The engine grinds, the transmission whines, and the metal is super thin.

They'll have to go a long way to win me back. My Accent is built as well as any Corolla I have ever had.

Well...maybe except one...

<=====
 

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The only Toyota I'd buy for myself is a 4th gen twin turbo Supra, 1993-2002. Not twin scroll turbo like Hyundai advertises. 1000 hp doable if you have the right stuff or a fat wallet. I wish I live in Nevada just for that.
The 2000GT is lovely too.
Toyotas, Hondas are what I'd buy for my wife.
They are favorits among my risk averse friends.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
The only Toyota I'd buy for myself is a 4th gen twin turbo Supra, 1993-2002. Not twin scroll turbo like Hyundai advertises. 1000 hp doable if you have the right stuff or a fat wallet. I wish I live in Nevada just for that.
The 2000GT is lovely too.
Toyotas, Hondas are what I'd buy for my wife.
They are favorits among my risk averse friends.

I have a 3rd Gen Non turbo, but it has had a blown HG for 4 years. THis year it goes back on the road, one way or another!!!

I had the oil changed in the Scion, and they had a Toyota 86 sitting there. I'm 5'11" and the roof barely cleared my stomach.

My kinda car!!!

They also had a 2015 Lexus IS250 AWD Sport sitting there, too. Decisions, decisions!

But, on the way home I stopped for coffee, and there was a 3.8L Genesis coupe.

Maybe I can take the price of the Aston and buy all three! :D
 

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Oh, I'd buy a Tacoma if I need a pickup. But my fold up trailer gets the job done, once or twice a year. If I need to haul more than 1000 lbs, I will pay someone else to do it.
I'd definitely buy a used Corolla for a college kid...already did.:smile:
Next new car will be BEV with 300+ range, must be able to tow 1500 lbs and autonomous self drive. Come pick up daddy...
 

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totally agree, perception of value varies but if things like design, efficiency, driving dynamics, longevity and resale value matter then it's Toyota. If saving some amount of money with initial purchase matters most or getting an additional cupholder then it's Hyundai.
Toyota does have ridiculous resale and overall good reliability(though not what it used to be), but design and driving dynamics? What Toyotas have you been driving? Ride quality of the Corolla and RAV4 in particular is terrible, as is handling. Neither have a drivetrain with decent power either. Interiors are cheap and boring. Still no Android Auto.
 

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Toyota does have ridiculous resale and overall good reliability(though not what it used to be), but design and driving dynamics? What Toyotas have you been driving? Ride quality of the Corolla and RAV4 in particular is terrible, as is handling. Neither have a drivetrain with decent power either. Interiors are cheap and boring. Still no Android Auto.
Well in the USA April sales I see 3 Toyotas - Camry RAV4 and Corolla in the top 10 vehicles sales, 0 Hyundais. Score 3 to nada. In the top 2,0 5 Toyotas, nada Hyundais, final score 8 to 0 .

So yeah Corolla and RAV4 not best in class but they sell because their Toyotas which as you mention reliability, resale and safe bet to buy.

So the Sonata refresh and big decline in sales - in some measure tied to a shift from sedans but contrast that with Camry sales. Camry changed a good deal, but even if it hadn't - let's say Toyota did a Sonata level refresh (and they have in the past) Camry would still be selling well, arguably even at the top of the sedan heap again. Sonata added an 8 speed, the other thing they were touting was a small increase in the rear trailing arm thickness - seriously, that was one of their main bullets regards the 2018 refresh. Hyundai wishes they could command the same market perception as Toyota, but they are not currently there.

Drove a RAV4 a few months back when helping daughter shop - yes cheaper interior, ride ok , better acceleration (2.5 vs 2.0) and better fuel economy, lots of room. Urged her to buy it but like many $$$ matter so she buys Tuscon and likes it but complains about the fuel efficiency - AWD 26 mpg highway. It's a nice car but IMO Toyota smarter buy - and based on RAV4 sales the market seems to agree. New RAV4 will undoubtedly push sales higher, just like the Camry.

Toyota remains the most highly value car company on the planet and time and time again I see Lexus and Toyota ranking no 1 or no 2 in resale value, reliability, cars that last the longest. Didn't rush into turbo charging or widespread use of GDI to maintain they reliability reputation.
 

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FYI - a number of Toyotas make this list - inc Corolla and RAV4 , at the top of most car buyer's priority is reliability. Well see if over time Hyundai models appear on this list, I've seen some on here postulate that Hyundai's focus is making the auto last thru the long US warranty period. For many consumers who don't want to keep their car for a long period and pay less at the onset Hyundai is arguably the smarter buy for their needs.


www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/most-reliable-cars-decade-according-consumer-reports.html
 

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Well in the USA April sales I see 3 Toyotas - Camry RAV4 and Corolla in the top 10 vehicles sales, 0 Hyundais. Score 3 to nada. In the top 2,0 5 Toyotas, nada Hyundais, final score 8 to 0 .

So yeah Corolla and RAV4 not best in class but they sell because their Toyotas which as you mention reliability, resale and safe bet to buy.

So the Sonata refresh and big decline in sales - in some measure tied to a shift from sedans but contrast that with Camry sales. Camry changed a good deal, but even if it hadn't - let's say Toyota did a Sonata level refresh (and they have in the past) Camry would still be selling well, arguably even at the top of the sedan heap again. Sonata added an 8 speed, the other thing they were touting was a small increase in the rear trailing arm thickness - seriously, that was one of their main bullets regards the 2018 refresh. Hyundai wishes they could command the same market perception as Toyota, but they are not currently there.

Drove a RAV4 a few months back when helping daughter shop - yes cheaper interior, ride ok , better acceleration (2.5 vs 2.0) and better fuel economy, lots of room. Urged her to buy it but like many $$$ matter so she buys Tuscon and likes it but complains about the fuel efficiency - AWD 26 mpg highway. It's a nice car but IMO Toyota smarter buy - and based on RAV4 sales the market seems to agree. New RAV4 will undoubtedly push sales higher, just like the Camry.

Toyota remains the most highly value car company on the planet and time and time again I see Lexus and Toyota ranking no 1 or no 2 in resale value, reliability, cars that last the longest. Didn't rush into turbo charging or widespread use of GDI to maintain they reliability reputation.
Never said Hyundai was better. Not real impressed with my Tucson SE lately either.

Sure Toyotas sell well, partly on past reputation IMO. Many buyers do value reliability, and don't care all that much about performance. However if you're looking for something fun to drive Toyota isn't it...

My previous vehicle was a 2008 RAV4, I hated that thing. Interior was cheap with terrible fit and finish causing constant rattles. Paint chipped like crazy.
Suspension was terrible with ridiculous body roll. Braking was pretty bad, traction control was way too sensitive, throttle and transmission response was unpredictable at best. Every now and then I'd go to pull out into traffic and it would just kind of get stuck at 2,500 RPM. Wouldn't shift or go faster than 20MPH until I let off the gas then floored it a couple times. There were quite a few people complaining about all these issues on the Toyota/RAV4 forums.

As for reliability/quality, by 60K miles it had:
The steering wheel shaft replaced TWICE for making klunking noises

A leaking water pump replaced

A faulty 02 sensor replaced

A faulty rear wheel speed sensor replaced(went out in the middle of a snowstorm disabling AWD, traction control, ABS, etc.)

Pretty sure the recalls were in the double digits by that point


When it was finally time to replace it last year I didn't even consider another RAV4 because many reviews and posts complain of the same issues with the current Gen. Cheap interior, poor ride quality, screwy throttle response, etc. Ended up going with the Tucson SE AWD for much the same reason as your daughter. Needed to buy a vehicle and Hyundai had a bunch of incentives and it was a good bit cheaper than any of the alternatives. Overall much nicer than my RAV4 was, acceleration and fuel economy really aren't much worse.

However now after a year and 8,000 miles the 2.0 engine is getting old fast, especially since my commute involves a lot of hills. And the interior plastics aren't holding up well at all. Both the hard plastics and soft touch material scuff and scratch very easily. After seeing what it looks like after only 8,000 miles I'm worried what it's going to look like after a few years.

So probably taking the hit and trading it in on a CPO 2016-2017 Escape with the 2.0T. Leery as I am about buying a used Ford it's much more fun to drive than the RAV4 or the Tucson. Better ride quality, better handling, a lot more power, and soundproofing on the 2017 is about in par with the Tucson and much better than the RAV4.
 

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If you want a CUV that is fun to drive, I think you have made a great choice. To me Ford is doing a great job with their turbo engine development, the 2.0T delivers a lot of torque, but the AWD drive Edge version bests the sluggish 2.0 in the Tuscon in both performance, handling and fuel efficieny, despite being a heavier auto, things like that to me reflect that in some areas Hyundai lags because of cheaper design. Reliable yes, superior in design no.
 

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From a motor trend review on the 2018 Corolla:

Until the next-gen Corolla gets here, consumers will be much better off buying a different car. Not because the Corolla’s bad. Sure, it’s affordable, and dealers are pricing it to move. But the segment has evolved considerably, and the Corolla sedan needs a full redesign to catch up. If you really want a compact Toyota, either wait for the new model, or consider the Corolla hatch.

they begin the article by saying that in the US over 100k have been sold thru april this year. They had a 0 to 60 run of 9.9 secs. Impressive
 

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From a motor trend review on the 2018 Corolla:

Until the next-gen Corolla gets here, consumers will be much better off buying a different car. Not because the Corolla’s bad. Sure, it’s affordable, and dealers are pricing it to move. But the segment has evolved considerably, and the Corolla sedan needs a full redesign to catch up. If you really want a compact Toyota, either wait for the new model, or consider the Corolla hatch.

they begin the article by saying that in the US over 100k have been sold thru april this year. They had a 0 to 60 run of 9.9 secs. Impressive
Proof that name alone with sell a car.
 

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From a motor trend review on the 2018 Corolla:

Until the next-gen Corolla gets here, consumers will be much better off buying a different car. Not because the Corolla’s bad. Sure, it’s affordable, and dealers are pricing it to move. But the segment has evolved considerably, and the Corolla sedan needs a full redesign to catch up. If you really want a compact Toyota, either wait for the new model, or consider the Corolla hatch.

they begin the article by saying that in the US over 100k have been sold thru april this year. They had a 0 to 60 run of 9.9 secs. Impressive

Proof that name along will sell a car.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Proof that name along will sell a car.

Corolla Hatch?

Oh...it's the model they 'stole' from Scion...

Remind you guys of anything we know? Hmmm?



They had a couple on the lot while I was getting my Scion serviced at the local Toy dealer.
 

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Proof that name alone with sell a car.
Yeah ain't that the truth, it's where every automaker would like to be, Corolla a cash cow and just when it is becoming all too obvious that it's a mediocre car to all but the hard core Toyota loyalists - Toyota refreshes it for 2019.

Besides being dreadfully slow Motor Trend was also critical of steering and handling. Yet it outsells Civic, Elantra, Mazda, etc.
 

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Yeah ain't that the truth, it's where every automaker would like to be, Corolla a cash cow and just when it is becoming all too obvious that it's a mediocre car to all but the hard core Toyota loyalists - Toyota refreshes it for 2019.

Besides being dreadfully slow Motor Trend was also critical of steering and handling. Yet it outsells Civic, Elantra, Mazda, etc.
That's why being brand loyal is not a bad thing as long as you can admit when your favorite company has missed the mark.
If they built a turd then they built a turd.
No sense being a complete fanboy and fawning over something that is horrible.
Don't be the car enthusiast equivalent of an Apple fanboy.
 

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Well, I can see why Ford wants to go with SUVs and trucks - that's what sells these days. Glad they kept the Mustang though, I just got one recently. I liked my Elantra Coupe but just wanted something that has the bang to go with the looks. I've never bought a truck or SUV and I don't plan on ever doing so. If I want to haul something I'll go rent a U-Haul pickup for a day. Automotive trends move in big circles, though, so later maybe we'll see the return of family sedans in electric form.
 
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