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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the news this morning: Ford is going out of the car business.

Well, what are they going to focus on? GE stands for General Electric, but they have been selling off their manufacturing groups because they make most of their money in finance, so is Ford doing something similar?

Not quite. They are dropping their car models and focusing on trucks and SUVs. I think it said something like 73% of their business is along these lines, so they are dropping everything but the Focus and the Mustang. IMHO, I would keep the Fusion as well. I see mostly Focus and Fusion models around here...and tons of trucks.

Gotta question the wisdom of this. When fuel is relatively 'cheap' (Those of us over 40 or so do NOT think current prices are 'cheap'...) large vehicles sell well. But when prices creep up smaller vehicles outsell the larger ones. Is Ford shooting itself in the foot?

Similar to what Isuzu did back in the 90's. Their cars weren't selling well, esp in the US, so they went to trucks. That didn't work well for them. They left the US car market in 2008, but some of their vehicles sort of carry on in GM's small truck lines. Now all they do in the US is commercial vehicles.

If fuel costs rise, Ford may find itself scrambling to start making fuel efficient cars again, and be behind the curve if another "fuel crisis" looms on the horizon.

Now, I don't want to get too political about this, but this comes on the heels of President Trump's suggestion to the EPA to relax CAFE standards in the US.

For those who don't know, or our other friends around the world (and mostly where fuel is much more expensive than the US...) CAFE stands for Corporate Average Fuel Economy, a standard all car makers have to meet to sell cars in the US. The Obama administration set this at 26 MPG, meaning makers had to produce more fuel efficient vehicles to meet this average. Companies CAN make vehicles that don't meet this average, but those that do pay a "fine" to the government when they fail to meet the standard.
 

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I've noticed over the last 5 years, a lot of fleets (rentals, meter maids, governments, taxi, etc) I've seen are now using foreign cars, instead of the usual Chevy or Ford. Mostly Hyundai, Nissan & Toyota.
 

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https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/25/f...rth-america-but-the-mustang-and-focus-active/

It is the focus active, not the focus they are keeping. When I think of focus a failing DCT comes to mind.

From the link above:

This announcement comes several weeks after Ford explained in broad terms its love affair of trucks and SUVs. Ford estimates that SUVs could make up as much as half the entire U.S. industry’s retail market by 2020, and that’s why it’s shifting $7 billion in investment capital from its cars business over to the SUV segment. By 2020, Ford also aims to have high-performance SUVs in market, including five with hybrid powertrains and one fully battery-electric model.
With this big hybrid push on the SUV side, Ford expects to go from second to first-place in the U.S. hybrid vehicles market by sales, surpassing current leader Toyota by 2021, thanks also to the forthcoming hybrid Mustang and F-150.
I see this is as Ford sees the future trends and they are trying to get in on the ground floor. They want to become #1 in Hybrid technology. You need to factor that into discussions about fuel economy.

We are also transitioning away from car ownership. Like it or not we are transitioning toward driver less technology. Uber is going with Volvo right now. Maybe Ford wants a cut of that pie?

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1711/uber-volvo-join-forces-on-self-driving-car-shares
 

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In Wisconsin, not only Ford, but GM, Chrysler, and even Toyota dealerships are loaded with SUV's, pickup's, vans, and minivans, have to really search for compact cars. Don't know how Ford with their 350's and GM with their 3,500's get buy, exempt from showing fuel economy on their window stickers.

GM is advertising $11,500.00 off on their top of the line pickups, but don't tell you the small print, need a 1928 Reo to trade in to get that discount or something just as bad.

Most of the people I see that purchased these giants, are tiny people, and only the driver's in these gas guzzling vehicles, gives them the feeling of power and really have to watch out for them when driving a compact. We on this board are becoming a very rare breed.

When we were in Italy, paid the equivalent of $9.75 per US gallon of diesel fuel, but settled for a Ford C-Max, we averaged 55 mpg translated, but I really liked that little car, actually could carry seven passengers, but here, its only five.. And also rare to get an MT.

Around here see a family with four kids jam into a regular single seat pickup, also jamming their groceries on the inside, guess daddy has to have a pickup. Wonder how they get by with kid car seat laws. To me, one of the most worthless vehicles, can't even carry a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood, they run empty and experience way oversteering in the things. See more of these in the ditch than any other vehicle.

What they are good for is pulling a fifth wheel trailer, and that is about all. Ha, the interiors are sure fancy, even the five passengers, but sure don't want to go to a muddy construction site, would take forever to clean these things up. Made strictly for Park Ave, in NYC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/25/f...rth-america-but-the-mustang-and-focus-active/

It is the focus active, not the focus they are keeping. When I think of focus a failing DCT comes to mind.

From the link above:

I see this is as Ford sees the future trends and they are trying to get in on the ground floor. They want to become #1 in Hybrid technology. You need to factor that into discussions about fuel economy.

We are also transitioning away from car ownership. Like it or not we are transitioning toward driver less technology. Uber is going with Volvo right now. Maybe Ford wants a cut of that pie?

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1711/uber-volvo-join-forces-on-self-driving-car-shares

Just don't try crossing the street with your bicycle in front of one...:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/25/f...rth-america-but-the-mustang-and-focus-active/

It is the focus active, not the focus they are keeping. When I think of focus a failing DCT comes to mind.

From the link above:

I see this is as Ford sees the future trends and they are trying to get in on the ground floor. They want to become #1 in Hybrid technology. You need to factor that into discussions about fuel economy.

We are also transitioning away from car ownership. Like it or not we are transitioning toward driver less technology. Uber is going with Volvo right now. Maybe Ford wants a cut of that pie?

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1711/uber-volvo-join-forces-on-self-driving-car-shares

PS: I could do the Focus Active. I like it....

In the link you provided, it said Ford is changing the way it builds vehicles. While this may be a good thing, it was execs and engineers from Ford who taught Toyota how to build cars after WWII, and Toyota still uses a lot of those methods today...
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
In Wisconsin, not only Ford, but GM, Chrysler, and even Toyota dealerships are loaded with SUV's, pickup's, vans, and minivans, have to really search for compact cars. Don't know how Ford with their 350's and GM with their 3,500's get buy, exempt from showing fuel economy on their window stickers.

GM is advertising $11,500.00 off on their top of the line pickups, but don't tell you the small print, need a 1928 Reo to trade in to get that discount or something just as bad.

Most of the people I see that purchased these giants, are tiny people, and only the driver's in these gas guzzling vehicles, gives them the feeling of power and really have to watch out for them when driving a compact. We on this board are becoming a very rare breed.

When we were in Italy, paid the equivalent of $9.75 per US gallon of diesel fuel, but settled for a Ford C-Max, we averaged 55 mpg translated, but I really liked that little car, actually could carry seven passengers, but here, its only five.. And also rare to get an MT.

Around here see a family with four kids jam into a regular single seat pickup, also jamming their groceries on the inside, guess daddy has to have a pickup. Wonder how they get by with kid car seat laws. To me, one of the most worthless vehicles, can't even carry a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood, they run empty and experience way oversteering in the things. See more of these in the ditch than any other vehicle.

What they are good for is pulling a fifth wheel trailer, and that is about all. Ha, the interiors are sure fancy, even the five passengers, but sure don't want to go to a muddy construction site, would take forever to clean these things up. Made strictly for Park Ave, in NYC.

My supervisor has a 4-door GMC pickup, full-size, and the guy who parks next to me has a $66K quad-cab monster...to pull a 5th wheel trailer...

I couldn't afford the gas...

With increased production, mandatory overtime and a 2% raise with another on the way, I see a lot of people buying these beasts. However, the guy they sent me to replaced when he retired Thursday traded in his gas-guzzling leviathan...

for an Elantra...:D
 

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Gotta question the wisdom of this. When fuel is relatively 'cheap' (Those of us over 40 or so do NOT think current prices are 'cheap'...) large vehicles sell well. But when prices creep up smaller vehicles outsell the larger ones. Is Ford shooting itself in the foot?

I agree with you ( I am over 40) and do not need a pickup. I use my other car to pull my 6x10 utility trailer when I need it on rare occasions.

I think Ford should build a modular vehicle, a vehicle that can be changed from a car/suv/cuv by changing chassis, engine, and trans components.

That way if the fuel prices go up dramatically, they could make more cars and less suv/cuv based on customer demand !
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Gotta question the wisdom of this. When fuel is relatively 'cheap' (Those of us over 40 or so do NOT think current prices are 'cheap'...) large vehicles sell well. But when prices creep up smaller vehicles outsell the larger ones. Is Ford shooting itself in the foot?

I agree with you ( I am over 40) and do not need a pickup. I use my other car to pull my 6x10 utility trailer when I need it on rare occasions.

I think Ford should build a modular vehicle, a vehicle that can be changed from a car/suv/cuv by changing chassis, engine, and trans components.

That way if the fuel prices go up dramatically, they could make more cars and less suv/cuv based on customer demand !

Most cars already share platforms; the underpinnings are essentially the same, but the body panels and trim different. Japan has been doing this for decades; the Celica (original) was a Corona with a different body. Both used the same floor pan. Detroit has also been doing this for some time, but usually across models: Chevy, Buick, Olds and Pontiac all used similar frames, etc, and Ford with the Ford and Mercury lines.
 

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PS: I could do the Focus Active. I like it....

In the link you provided, it said Ford is changing the way it builds vehicles. While this may be a good thing, it was execs and engineers from Ford who taught Toyota how to build cars after WWII, and Toyota still uses a lot of those methods today...
Ford has their hands in everything:

Hyundai History, Manufacturing Plants Locations

The company was founded in 1967 by Chung Ju-yung and his brother Se-yung, who coordinated with Ford to release the Cortina compact.
The future is changing very fast. Infrastructure is being set up to allow for 5g Wireless everywhere.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/17/spacex-testing-its-own-satellite-broadband-internet-network.html

So I think Ford has data that we do not have or fully understand as they phase out cars from their lineup.
 

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Most cars already share platforms; the underpinnings are essentially the same, but the body panels and trim different. Japan has been doing this for decades; the Celica (original) was a Corona with a different body. Both used the same floor pan. Detroit has also been doing this for some time, but usually across models: Chevy, Buick, Olds and Pontiac all used similar frames, etc, and Ford with the Ford and Mercury lines.
Most of Ford's plans seem to impact the North American market, they will still be making some cars in other worldwide operations.

The new CEO made some bold and what turned out to be profitable moves at Steelcase, shuttering plants in Michigan and shifting mfg operations to China, so business as usual as it pertains to a CEO doing whatever it takes to fatten his comp package. Mullaly did a great job at Ford, his successor wasn't perceived as that effective, so I see Jim Hackett making another bold move to enhance short term profits - perhaps at the cost of longer term health of Ford.
 
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Doesn't much matter, I wouldn't be buying a new Ford product ever again, regardless of truck, car, suv, or 5-wheeled moped. After having trouble with a Ford dealership messing up my Festiva, I complained to Ford about it (as it was an authorized Ford dealership, and it was a "Ford" car). All I got was a "meh, we don't care, not our problem". Made me so angry I decided I would never buy from them again.
 

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A few years ago when gas prices spiked people were falling all over themselves to dump their trucks and SUVs for smaller, more fuel efficient cars.
It will happen again and Ford will be majorly screwed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
A few years ago when gas prices spiked people were falling all over themselves to dump their trucks and SUVs for smaller, more fuel efficient cars.
It will happen again and Ford will be majorly screwed.
Right. That's why I think it would be a dumb move.

Also, I would not drop the Fusion. A number of vehicles could be sprouted off that platform if need arises.
 
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Right. That's why I think it would be a dumb move.

Also, I would not drop the Fusion. A number of vehicles could be sprouted off that platform if need arises.
Gas is almost $4 a gallon here in So Cal.
I need a truck to haul my antique cars around with my trailer but I'm waiting until gas goes up a little more so I can nab a good deal on a used one.
 

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Ford has said they lose money on the lower trim cars like the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, etc., and most buyers aren't shelling out for the pricey upper trims that are profitable. Plus the upper performance oriented trims they want people to buy aren't much more fuel efficient or cheaper than the Escape turbo models. Personally I prefer driving SUVs/Crossovers and when buying a $20,000-$30,000 vehicle I really don't care about a few hundred more dollars in fuel costs every year. Around here the F-150, Explorer, and Escape are quite common. The Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, etc., are much less common than most of their Japanese/Korean competitors. Makes sense to focus on the hot market that they're doing well in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ford has said they lose money on the lower trim cars like the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, etc., and most buyers aren't shelling out for the pricey upper trims that are profitable. Plus the upper performance oriented trims they want people to buy aren't much more fuel efficient or cheaper than the Escape turbo models. Personally I prefer driving SUVs/Crossovers and when buying a $20,000-$30,000 vehicle I really don't care about a few hundred more dollars in fuel costs every year. Around here the F-150, Explorer, and Escape are quite common. The Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, etc., are much less common than most of their Japanese/Korean competitors. Makes sense to focus on the hot market that they're doing well in.

Maybe things have changed, but for the last 50 years when gas goes up, large vehicle sales drop.
 
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Ha, on Wisconsin TV commercials, Ford says they are the best selling vehicles, but so does GM, somebody is lying. If you really want value on your next SUV purchase, get a Toyota.

If you want a vehicle whose automatic braking really works, buy a Subaru, even better than Hyundai.

Ha, somehow my right foot is on the brake even before I realize what's happening, if your right foot isn't this way, get a new right foot.
 

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If you really want value on your next SUV purchase, get a Toyota.
.

totally agree, perception of value varies but if things like design, efficiency, driving dynamics, longevity and resale value matter then it's Toyota. If saving some amount of money with initial purchase matters most or getting an additional cupholder then it's Hyundai.
 
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