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Discussion Starter #1
Winter is here, so I decided to change my oil and rotate my tires.

This is the second time I changed the oil without jacking or ramps. It was easy. I had the proper tools. I used a cat litter box that was low profile, allowing access. Filter removal was easy with cap wrench. Did not even use mirrors. All by feel.

I had modified a cup to catch the oil when filter was removed. It was an epic fail. Not all of my ideas are good ideas.:smile:

EZ valve install instructions said to use a Cresent Wrench. I did not want to remove the plastic shield. I did have a Cresent tool I never used that was perfect (see picture). After installing I did remove front tire and check the torque. It was nice and snug. The lever pointed up. Time to rotate the tires.

Not sure I will rotate tires again. It would be much easier with a lift. My upper body is not as strong as it used to be. I had two jacks with the hockey puck mod and got through it. Not a fan of the hub caps that are held on by lug nuts. Now for my observations.

The rear drivers side tire that was replaced recently had two lug nuts extra tight and three with less torque. The shop used torque bars. This confirms my idea I need to re-torque lug nuts if someone else does the rotations. I could see this causing problems with the rotors.

I used an OEM filter. I did buy a six pack of the Tiger-Heli Fram Ultra six pack from Ebay. But, comparing to OEM I was disappointed. The Fram center tube has very few holes compared to OEM. I have read hours of posts on the comparison and feel OEM would be better for me. I say feel because that is what it is. I find if I follow my gut I make better decisions. I will keep the Frams for warm weather when flow is less of an issue.

The oil I used was 5w-20 Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. Free from Wal-Mart due to their website error. They had 3 jugs of oil for $19.98. They only sent one, so they just gave a refund. I wanted extra flow for the Winter.

So, with cost of oil and filter I spent less than $3.00 on this oil change. I want to get into a November/May oil change schedule. I hate working on a car in winter. I want to continue using synthetic oil so maybe the Fram will be OK, but I do have some doubts. Life is not perfect, nor am I. That is my ultimate observation. :smile:
 

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Ha, what good is a torque wrench if you can't read it, this is a very old story when you have somebody else doing this for you.

With all the kids gone with older vehicles, not doing nearly the mechanical work as before, so don't mind getting some oil on my hands 2 or 3 times per year.

Still wonder how you can squeeze under there with only 5 1/2 inches of clearance, ha, I need least 11 inches, 12 inches is plenty.
 

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"Read a torque wrench"? Wow, you ARE old! Nowadays, you set the desired torque and the wrench clicks or beeps or flashes an LED when it reaches the preset.
Although I still am using my 40 yr old wrench Craftsman with the manual pointer, my wife has asked me what I want for Xmas.
 

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The rear drivers side tire that was replaced recently had two lug nuts extra tight and three with less torque. The shop used torque bars.
I think torque bars work, but I've known shops to torgue the lug nuts to 150 ft-lbs with a gun and then use a torque bar to verify they have at least 76 ft-lbs ...

But, comparing to OEM I was disappointed. The Fram center tube has very few holes compared to OEM.
Oddly, I liked that about the Fram better. The Fram has many more holes than OEM (13 or something compared to 5). The question really would be whether the total area of the Fram holes is more or less than the total area of the OEM ...

I want to continue using synthetic oil so maybe the Fram will be OK, but I do have some doubts.
The Fram has synthetic media and is designed for the longer OCI's common with synthetic oil. That does NOT mean you can't use dino oil with the Fram or Syn oil with the OEM ...
 

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I used an OEM filter. I did buy a six pack of the Tiger-Heli Fram Ultra six pack from Ebay. But, comparing to OEM I was disappointed. The Fram center tube has very few holes compared to OEM. I have read hours of posts on the comparison and feel OEM would be better for me. I say feel because that is what it is. I find if I follow my gut I make better decisions. I will keep the Frams for warm weather when flow is less of an issue.

:
You could possibly ignite a debate as to whether less larger holes allow more flow thru the oil filter than 2x more smaller holes, similar to how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. But I like your decision criteria - gut feel as opposed to micron particles, for my vehicle with bearing debris issues I'd go with the Fram because of the the smaller holes might not let a big chunk of the bearing sleeve pass through .:wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ha, what good is a torque wrench if you can't read it, this is a very old story when you have somebody else doing this for you.

With all the kids gone with older vehicles, not doing nearly the mechanical work as before, so don't mind getting some oil on my hands 2 or 3 times per year.

Still wonder how you can squeeze under there with only 5 1/2 inches of clearance, ha, I need least 11 inches, 12 inches is plenty.
I think what you are saying is you cannot read a torque bar. Also, I don't know if the Star pattern was followed and maybe those extra tight lugs were tightened twice.

My car is so low I routinely hit parking bumpers. I saw the scrapes under my car.:surprise:

It was tight, but not bad. I have dealt with worse. All is relative.

Although I still am using my 40 yr old wrench Craftsman with the manual pointer, my wife has asked me what I want for Xmas.
I have a manual pointer Craftsman wrench. I prefer it when doing plugs. I hope Santa is good to you this year! :)

I think torque bars work, but I've known shops to torgue the lug nuts to 150 ft-lbs with a gun and then use a torque bar to verify they have at least 76 ft-lbs ...

The installer was looked very young. They may work, but not as well as a torque wrench. I tighten in Star pattern gradually. It may take 3 times or so to get torque wrench to click.

Oddly, I liked that about the Fram better. The Fram has many more holes than OEM (13 or something compared to 5). The question really would be whether the total area of the Fram holes is more or less than the total area of the OEM ...

Mine OEM filter has a lot more holes than that.

The Fram has synthetic media and is designed for the longer OCI's common with synthetic oil. That does NOT mean you can't use dino oil with the Fram or Syn oil with the OEM ...
So I called Fram and talked to Marty, a 20 year employee of Fram. He said the Fram XG9688 will flow fine with synthetic oil. Said the size of the holes did not matter. They tested the filter 2 years with staff. They received free oil changes for 2 years. Said filter has twice the holding capacity and can go 20k. He put my concerns to rest. Here is my view. With Synthetic oil I will use the Fram. If I do use conventional oil I will use OEM since it was tested 5w-20 to 10w-30 with varying temperatures.

My take is Hyundai has one filter for different engines. Most people are going to use conventional oil, so they made a filter that flows over more efficiency and fits their recommended 3,750 severe and 7,500 normal oil change intervals.

Fram Ultra is geared toward Synthetic oil, extended oil intervals/filtration capacity, and more efficiency. Probably overkill. but so is the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum (which is silky smooth). I would like to use that again.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You could possibly ignite a debate as to whether less larger holes allow more flow thru the oil filter than 2x more smaller holes, similar to how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. But I like your decision criteria - gut feel as opposed to micron particles, for my vehicle with bearing debris issues I'd go with the Fram because of the the smaller holes might not let a big chunk of the bearing sleeve pass through .:wink:
One of the first things Marty from Fram said is the filter met the Hyundai spec for flow. I thought he said 4 gallons per minute? You bring up a good point. In the back of my mind, I have a doubts about Hyundai. Are they going to discover years from now they messed up in design or manufacturing of my engine. I come from Saturn where a engineering decision made cars pretty much guaranteed to use oil. One reason I use synthetic oil is to make up for poor engineering or to give a little better protection in extremes.

Another reason to use Fram is to use this bad boy:
 

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No offense, but you still aren't understanding some of the issues ...

There is no evidence that the OEM flows better than the Fram or vice-versa. Someone could measure and do the math on the hole size and determine which has more entry area and infer that equates to greater flow ...

Twice the holding capacity seems hard to swallow.

Again - either OEM or Fram is fine with 7.5K OCI and either type of oil. (I've read and believe Fram has greater efficiency.)

For warranty, you need to stick to 7.5K OCI, but after warranty Fram might well go for 20K OCI, but I don't plan to find out personally.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
No offense, but you still aren't understanding some of the issues ...

You are right (don't tell your wife I said that). I looked up filter recommendations at Fram, even with Conventional and servere service it recommended XG9688 first.

Filtration Catalog

There is no evidence that the OEM flows better than the Fram or vice-versa. Someone could measure and do the math on the hole size and determine which has more entry area and infer that equates to greater flow ...

You may be right. If I can help it I will only use Synthetic oil, though I have a lot of leftover conventional oil in the garage. After talking to Marty it sounds like either would work, but I prefer using Fram XG with my Synthetic oil.


Twice the holding capacity seems hard to swallow.

It makes sense. How can they say good for 20,000 miles if it does not have more holding capacity? Marty did say OEM filter was only good for 5 to 6K miles.


Again - either OEM or Fram is fine with 7.5K OCI and either type of oil. (I've read and believe Fram has greater efficiency.)

For warranty, you need to stick to 7.5K OCI, but after warranty Fram might well go for 20K OCI, but I don't plan to find out personally.

I will be doing 3,750 miles or 6-months. But, if I have to go out of town a lot and may do the 7,500. My stepfather is 70 miles away and I am #1 on the list to take care of problems. So, with Synthetic oil I am ready to Rock-n-Roll if needed.
 

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Personally - I'm doing 5K OCI with Fram and synthetic oil.

I do think dino oil would be fine for 3750 miles or 5K and might be fine for 7.5K, but I think synthetic is better quality oil.

I mis-understood what was meant by holding capacity. I was thinking of liquid volume or oil capacity of the filter. They are saying the media can hold twice as many particles before the filter starts to clog. Could be - I can't easily evaluate that.
 

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Personally - I'm doing 5K OCI with Fram and synthetic oil.

I do think dino oil would be fine for 3750 miles or 5K and might be fine for 7.5K, but I think synthetic is better quality oil.

I mis-understood what was meant by holding capacity. I was thinking of liquid volume or oil capacity of the filter. They are saying the media can hold twice as many particles before the filter starts to clog. Could be - I can't easily evaluate that.
Going 5k would drive me crazy. The warranty required things fall at 3,750 severe service. Fall and Spring makes more sense to me. I may need to fudge that a little to hit my ideal schedule. Now if I drove 5k every 6-months I would learn to deal with it. :wink:

Just remember, the only reason I bought the Tiger-Heli™ Fram 6-Pack was due to your recommendations. I value what you say.

Yes, holding capacity is the particles the filter catches and holds. If you look at the pictures the Fram is a little taller than the OEM filter. I think it is all about the type/amount of media they use as far as capacity goes.

Almost forgot what many people forget. Removed spare donut and put the recommended 60 lbs in it. It was at 37 lbs.
 

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Ha, another old school kid, indubitably prefer an analog over a clicker, or a cracker is more like it. With all this plastic and aluminum, when you hear that loud crack sound, don't know if its an aluminum casting cracking or the wrench.

Always used OEM oil filters, save the lid from the box as proof writing down the date and mileage. If there is a PT question, don't blame me, blame the OEM filter.

But so far, never a PT question, so OEM filters cannot be that bad. And as long as my dealer sells them cheaper to me than any auto supply store for a different brand, they will get my business.

LOL, singing a song, I'll do it my way.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
LOL, singing a song, I'll do it my way.
The point of the Fram filters was a quest for something better. Pretty much how I operate. I try to improve every time I do something. I only spilled a few drops of oil this time! I did the oil change and tire rotation my way!


If an aftermarket filter destroys my motor Hyundai or Fram has some explaining to do.:D
 

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"Read a torque wrench"? Wow, you ARE old! Nowadays, you set the desired torque and the wrench clicks or beeps or flashes an LED when it reaches the preset.
Actually do use a clicker for lug nuts, awkward position, not easy to read, have a high quality one.

But not only do you have to be able to read, have to chose the correct scale, normally use English in ft-lbs, but has two other scales.

One is kg-meters, metric was invented by the French, but apparently they did not know the difference between mass and mass affected by gravity, so used grams for both. After some odd 200 years, ISO finally figured out there is a difference, so grams affected by gravity was given the name Newtons, ha, after an English scientist rather than a French one.

So the third scale is in newton-meters. Enough to confuse any high school dropout using one of these things to tightened your nuts.

In the English system of measurements, the slug is the unit of mass. Ha, could be like the French and add a 4th scale, slug-lbs.

We had the metric system dumped on us by our brilliant congress in the mid-70's, their incredible thinking was because the Japanese refused to buy our vehicles, but what they really wanted was us to put the steering wheel on the right hand side.

Learning metric is easy, but thinking in metric is not, what about specifying engine output power in watts when what we really know is horse power.
 

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Going 5k would drive me crazy. The warranty required things fall at 3,750 severe service.
Yes, it is much easier if you don't fall into the severe service.

I do the oil change at 5K.

At 7.5K, there are a bunch of inspections, but nothing to replace.

At 10K I do the second oil change.

At 15K, there is a third oil change (2nd by warranty book) and a cabin filter change, etc.
 

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I use the Hyundai filters and synthetic oil, typically Pennzoil 5W-30. I cut a 2 liter soda bottle to become a sleeve around the oil filter. A small notch at the top is required to get above the filter o-ring surface. Any oil leakage when the filter is removed is within the soda sleeve. I use a Fumoto drain valve and a piece of tubing into the used oil container. I save pictures of the new oil, filter, odometer and drain oil into a file in case of warranty concerns.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I use the Hyundai filters and synthetic oil, typically Pennzoil 5W-30. I cut a 2 liter soda bottle to become a sleeve around the oil filter. A small notch at the top is required to get above the filter o-ring surface. Any oil leakage when the filter is removed is within the soda sleeve. I use a Fumoto drain valve and a piece of tubing into the used oil container. I save pictures of the new oil, filter, odometer and drain oil into a file in case of warranty concerns.
I like this a lot. More power to you. Sometimes you have to pick your priorities.

Due to my keeping car on garage floor I just used litter box for oil draining and a oil drain pan for the filter. Space is so limited I have abandoned the sleeve on the filter and am OK with oil in two pans. When done I just drain the main pan into recycling container flip one pan upside down in the other. If I am not a little messy I may feel like something was wrong. Oil changes as a teenager meant the oil was drained and poured on the gravel driveway to keep dust down. Spilling oil was never an issue. :laugh:

Now that I have an EZ Valve I can drain oil and remove/replace filter while oil is draining. I used Fumoto in the past an it was great, but a little slow. I expect the same with the EZ Valve.
 

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I change the Elantra every 3K with OE filter and Castrol 5W-20. The Sonata Hybrid is every 6K with Fram XG and Mobil-1 0W-20. I've used Frams for decades and have never had an issue. I'm using OE because I got a good price.

I found this adapter for my floor jack that allows me to jack up one side of the car at a time and I can change both tires at once. It works on the Elantra and Sonata. Makes changing the snow tires much easier. You place the jack at the front jacking point and jack until the rear wheel lifts off the floor.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
TimNH,

Nice! If I needed snow tires I may get more tire rotation tools. Even then my upper body strength is decreasing with age. Still a little sore from Monday after lifting the tires.

Car driving smooth and oil is where it should be which was the main goal.
 
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