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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All,
Recently my alternator went south and changed it with used one.

Car was running fine for three days but yesterday when my wife took it, she complained about random stalling on freeway when it will drop to 40mph.
She bring it back home and it was hot like **** and was running and making sound like tractor.
- last 2 week history
- Dealer changed valve cover gasket for oil leak
- came back and one week alternator gone. changed with tested used one. Dealer mentioned battery cell is bad. 2 month old AAA battery
- Wife complaining about random stall and running like tractor.
- Changed oil, Was all black. put mob 1 5w20.

Now here is log from OBD-ii
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Current Fault Log
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P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected

Pending Fault Log
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P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0011: "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1)
P0021: "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 2)
P0303: Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0305: Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected

Historic Fault Log
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ECU reports no historic faults
Other discovered fault codes
(possibly pending, current or manufacturer specific)
----------------------------------------------------
P0331: Knock Sensor 2 Circuit Range/Performance (Bank 2)
U3B00: null
C002B: null
P2140: Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch E/F Voltage Correlation
B2B03: null

End of report.
 

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P2140 - Throttle position sensor = common fault in 2007 vehicles. Get that replaced with ECU update first.

P0011/P0021 - wouldn't be the first camshaft position sensor we've seen go bad, though not nearly as common as other faults. Between that and the TPS, these could explain all of the driveability issues you have described. That said, it's pretty odd that they are both being reported at once. In fact, I'm wondering if there's a grounding problem involved.

Bummer about the alternator. Changing it without resolving the valve cover gasket issue that caused it cost you an extra one. Also common fault in 2007.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
P2140 - Throttle position sensor = common fault in 2007 vehicles. Get that replaced with ECU update first.

P0011/P0021 - wouldn't be the first camshaft position sensor we've seen go bad, though not nearly as common as other faults. Between that and the TPS, these could explain all of the driveability issues you have described. That said, it's pretty odd that they are both being reported at once. In fact, I'm wondering if there's a grounding problem involved.

Bummer about the alternator. Changing it without resolving the valve cover gasket issue that caused it cost you an extra one. Also common fault in 2007.
Alternator went south after valve cover gasket replaced.
Grounding issue seems logical reason as well as loose belt and i'm in process of send it to garage who replaced alternator for me to review.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Just heard from garage and looks like hg blew on rear (exhaust side).
sbr any thoughts??
Should i send to hyundai dealership or independent.
 

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Hello All,
Recently my alternator went south and changed it with used one
Bit of work to chance a used alternator labor wise

Car was running fine for three days but yesterday when my wife took it, she complained about random stalling on freeway when it will drop to 40mph.
She bring it back home and it was hot like **** and was running and making sound like tractor.

- last 2 week history
- Dealer changed valve cover gasket for oil leak - Must a 3.3L,, that normal repair to OE gasket

- came back and one week alternator gone. changed with tested used one.

Dealer mentioned battery cell is bad. 2 month old AAA battery

- Wife complaining about random stall and running like tractor.

- Changed oil, Was all black. put mob 1 5w20. - OOOps, oil change every 3000-3500 mile for a city car..

Now here is log from OBD-II
-----------------------------------------

Current Fault Log
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P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
Plugs due 90-105,000, Iridium only

Pending Fault Log
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P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0011: "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1)
P0021: "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 2)
P0303: Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0305: Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected

TSB I think for random misfire/303/305, look at freeze frame data snapshot when fault code set, look at the fuel trim numbers.. interested in bank 1 long and short fuel numbers recorded..

The advanced cam position codes.. play it right now as the dirty black oil,, CVVT needs to have clean oil for phasers to act quickly when PCM command advance/retard of cams and monitor target and actual values..


Historic Fault Log
------------------
ECU reports no historic faults
Other discovered fault codes
(possibly pending, current or manufacturer specific)
----------------------------------------------------
P0331: Knock Sensor 2 Circuit Range/Performance (Bank 2) - Pass for now
U3B00: null
C002B: null
P2140: Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch E/F Voltage Correlation -Dont see much for pedal position codes on the CM chassis, it is always the (3) code package for TPS that get replaced and PCM update as directed by Hyundai Motor Company
B2B03: null

End of report.
Please go back into your profile and edit into the "DRIVES" box what year Santa Fe and which engine we playing with.. I am guessing we playing with 3.3 due to text stating "valve cover and alternator"..

Look at the misfire first, if it was limping with limited power, chase the pedal position sensor (whole accell pedal assembly)

Play the cam codes for dirty fouled oil right now, see if them codes come back
 

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P2140 - Throttle position sensor = common fault in 2007 vehicles. Get that replaced with ECU update first.
No Sir,, 2140 is not called out in the Hyundai DTC lists for 2.7 or 3.3, me thinks poster wrote code wrong,, 1295/2106/2135/0638/161B get you TPS on either engine

P0011/P0021 - wouldn't be the first camshaft position sensor we've seen go bad, though not nearly as common as other faults. Between that and the TPS, these could explain all of the driveability issues you have described. That said, it's pretty odd that they are both being reported at once. In fact, I'm wondering if there's a grounding problem involved.
I be more interested in target and actual cam timing numbers as commanded and seen by PCM in current data, and for both to fault at same time ?? Black oil might have been goofing the CVVT action and phaser movements. Clean oil and try again.. 1 OCV come out easy, other OCV require intake removal,, not fun job.

Bummer about the alternator. Changing it without resolving the valve cover gasket issue that caused it cost you an extra one. Also common fault in 2007.
Hopefully fella clears up some of the details
 

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Just heard from garage and looks like hg (head gasket ??) blew on rear (exhaust side).

sbr any thoughts??

Should i send to hyundai dealership or independent.
Let dealer have it, they have all the right info and GDS to deal with it, they see it everyday, the independents see Ford, Gm, and Mazda all day long, Hyundai be a foreign car to them
 

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Hopefully fella clears up some of the details
Oops... wrong sensor. I see the word 'throttle' and immediately the brain engages for TPS mode.

As for the CVVT, isn't the code that is usually associated with a malfunction there on a CM more typically a P0018? The only time I've seen a P0021, it was accompanied by a P0022 (running past the margins in both directions).

He reports P0011 and P0021.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Let dealer have it, they have all the right info and GDS to deal with it, they see it everyday, the independents see Ford, Gm, and Mazda all day long, Hyundai be a foreign car to them
Thanks Sbr for chipping in so quickly.
I updated my information. It was their in my sig but didn't realise cars section was missing.


More details from my dad when he drove to garage and from garage.
Oil change done regularly. last oil change done at 68k. car currently has 70500.

-When removed old oil, it was black but there is no evidence of coolant.
-Coolant tank looks full, might have lost very little in last 6 months.
-Radiator replaced by same body-shop 6 month ago and highly reputed body-shop in los angeles area. they changed alternator as well. send it there as guy is good friend and need to change brake and rotor as well. so was saving $300-400 in labor itself.

-When dad took car this morning to garage, loud tractor like noise gone in one block. Didn't appear again at garage either. Big Relief :). Must be new oil that helped.

-Mechanic says HG as they show coolant dripping on exhaust as well as oil drops. But my thoughts are its just previous oil when i started car without putting oil filter cap which hasn't been cleaned up entirely.
Asked them to do that first and see again.

-sending it to dealer and will keep you guys updated.

-btw i put 6qts in it. Is it overfilled? Shows near F on dipstick. Can it do because of that? That still don't explain cam codes though right?
Also, I was running purolator filter which i changed with OEM that wife picked up from dealer.
 

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Hope the Purolator was one of the yellow paper ones marked "Made in Korea", not that it matters now. Nominal fill on the 3.3L is 5.5q, not 6.0q, but half a quart should not start creating the problems you describe.

Oil "black" after normal number of miles? Not something we have seen. How many miles DID you have on the oil when changed at 68K? Also, you originally said "She bring it back home and it was hot like **** and was running and making sound like tractor." Don't like the sound of that, either. Don't know what 'tractor' sounds like to you, though. You could be describing anything from rod knock due to lubrication failure to premature ignition (neither good).

Will be interested to see what you find out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hope the Purolator was one of the yellow paper ones marked "Made in Korea", not that it matters now. Nominal fill on the 3.3L is 5.5q, not 6.0q, but half a quart should not start creating the problems you describe.

Oil "black" after normal number of miles? Not something we have seen. How many miles DID you have on the oil when changed at 68K? Also, you originally said "She bring it back home and it was hot like **** and was running and making sound like tractor." Don't like the sound of that, either. Don't know what 'tractor' sounds like to you, though. You could be describing anything from rod knock due to lubrication failure to premature ignition (neither good).

Will be interested to see what you find out.
Thanks canderson.
Previous oil change was at 62500 with mobil 1 5w20 as well.
Have seen that much black oil in my honda motorcycle which i never changed oil on as long as i remember till it stopped. On hyundai it was always regular oil change between 3k to 6k range.

Tractor sound for me is like car running without exhaust on 8 cylinders.

just thinking myself that Probably sbr is right and should not have chased after few dollar savings as this looks like gotten worse. If dealer did all service, it would have been covered by warranty.

Dealer said they won't have time till next week to look at it but that sound is back and worse this time as well as white smoke from back.
These gonna be very painful long weekend.
 

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Without exhaust on 8 cylinders??? Oh - not good. White smoke? Even worse. If truly white and not blue, you need to look carefully (again) at your coolant level. That's where 'white' smoke comes from when it finds its way into the wrong part of the engine ('blue' would indicate oil burning instead). Added to your noise, it sounds as though you've managed to completely blow a head gasket!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dealership called. Engine overheated, making head gasket fail.
Options:
1)New engine from hyundai - 6k+2k labor
2)Remove heads and resurface - 3k with labor (Assuming heads are ok condition and can be resurfaced)
3)Used engine from Jy - 2k labor
- $1750 (60k miles/6month warranty)
- $3750 (18kmile/100 days warranty)
- $2600 (50k Miles/1 year warranty)
 

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Sorry to hear my suspicions were confirmed. That's an expensive problem. I take it you were not the original owner, else your 10/100K drivetrain warranty would cover all of this.

I'm a little confused about your price schedule, though. It would appear that a longer warrantied engine costs you less??? Why would they be asking less for a 50Kmi/1yr warrantied engine than an 18Kmi/100 day engine?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sorry to hear my suspicions were confirmed. That's an expensive problem. I take it you were not the original owner, else your 10/100K drivetrain warranty would cover all of this.

I'm a little confused about your price schedule, though. It would appear that a longer warrantied engine costs you less??? Why would they be asking less for a 50Kmi/1yr warrantied engine than an 18Kmi/100 day engine?
It's different prices from different sellers. One of them is mid-west engine and other is west-coast. most likely i will go with west coast engine (expensive) to negate rust issues.
I am not able to make decision at this point.
But have to decide by tonight.
 

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I wouldn't worry too much about rust .. though I'd be happier if there was a compression test done on all of them before I accepted one. I doubt any of the sellers has been bothered to do that, though. All they really need do is fill the thing with some oil, attach a starter, and moving a compression gauge around between spark plug holes, crank a few times to see how they look. Though as I think about it, they'd probably have to pull the bloody intake manifold to do the rear bank.

Given that the root of the problem was an overheat, I assume the above represent full engines, and not just short blocks with resurfaced heads?

Obvious big Q: Does your shop have any idea why you got into such a nasty overheat situation in the first place, and what's up with your earlier report in post #9 that you weren't losing any coolant to speak of? That's where the 'white smoke' was probably originating due to crossover into the combustion chambers at the blown head gasket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I wouldn't worry too much about rust .. though I'd be happier if there was a compression test done on all of them before I accepted one. I doubt any of the sellers has been bothered to do that, though. All they really need do is fill the thing with some oil, attach a starter, and moving a compression gauge around between spark plug holes, crank a few times to see how they look. Though as I think about it, they'd probably have to pull the bloody intake manifold to do the rear bank.

Given that the root of the problem was an overheat, I assume the above represent full engines, and not just short blocks with resurfaced heads?

Obvious big Q: Does your shop have any idea why you got into such a nasty overheat situation in the first place, and what's up with your earlier report in post #9 that you weren't losing any coolant to speak of? That's where the 'white smoke' was probably originating due to crossover into the combustion chambers at the blown head gasket.
These are complete engines, some of them with intake manifolds and sensors attached as it's more work for them to remove then selling whole things.

Good point about heat...
Dealer says garage installed radiator pipe too tight which prevented coolant flow hence overheat. Once engine overheated, it mixed coolant with oil but it was too late. When I show car last before that death trip, coolant was not missing. Now both garage and dealer are blaming each other, garage says dealer didn't do gasket job properly which allowed this to happen.

To me sounds like garage didn't do job right, but that's there mechanic's fault and this garage has saved me $$$ before so not going to spoil that relationship.
 

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??? Even a half baked valve cover gasket job that leaks some oil does not cause an overheat and head gasket failure. Can you explain at all what your independent shop meant by "dealer didn't do gasket job properly which allowed this to happen."??? If you're being clear about what you're independent said, he's full of it, no matter how much he's saved you before.

Dealer's comment is also confusing. "garage installed radiator pipe too tight which prevented coolant flow" The only way that would make any sense is if they had kinked the upper or lower hose during an install, which I'll grant could cause loss of low, but would be a pretty stupid and obvious problem, likely caused by using wrong or 'universal' hose.

Please elaborate if you can.
 

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Thing likely crudded up the joints where upper hose meet housing on top of cross-over pipe, and joint where lower hose mates to joint on t-stat housing,, quite common to see green growth out end of hose at both places, and coolant to be low.. simple replace of hose is not proper repair, it;ll leak again real soon,, we take and wire wheel the crud off the joint or use sandpaper to clean fitting to bare aluminum, install new hose using #20 worm drive band clamp..

Little tid bit.. head gasket on a LAMBDA typically does not fail/blowout -- it is a thin layer stainless shim.. your coolant leak is due to overheat warp/twisting of the head or deck.
 

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Semantics, but yes, you're accurate all the same. Not really the fault of the head gasket. Heat doesn't warp the gasket, it warps the parts that it seals, causing the gasket not to do its job.

What made no sense to me on the one side was the comment that "installed radiator pipe too tight", which not only makes no sense to me, it isn't at all the same as properly cleaning the mung off things before installing a new hose. Still hoping the OP explains further, if possible.

Someone needs to find out why this thing overheated in case the OP isn't out the price of an engine that he shouldn't have to buy! Then again, there's always the issue of driving the thing when the temperature gauge was trying to get the driver to stop (ahem), very likely making a bad situation worse than it needed to be.
 
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