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Discussion Starter #1
Hey there, My girlfriend recently bought a Hyundai Accent 2002 model 5 door hatch with DOHC and its now at around 40/50 thousand Kms on the odometer and she is getting noises which sound like the timing chain is loose but it only seems to happen at startup when the engine is colder, she took it to the dealer to get it fixed as its still under warranty and they 'supposedly' replaced the chain and guides and sent her away, however! the noise has since returned and its only been a month or two and we are really ticked off as she really depends on her car for work and we are sick of this problem as she took it back to them to complain and they said there was nothing wrong, they seem to be tryin to shrug her off cos she is a woman and I havent been able to attend with her as i start work early so i have been trying to hunt down a workshop manual and cannot seem to get one, can anyone help?
 

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There is a few things that could be causing this noise.
However without being able to hear this noise it becomes quite difficult.

The noise that I particularly want to listen for though is a fluttery type noise, the noise should be hard to locate, meaning that thwe noise doens't sound like it is coming from anywhere inparticular.

The noise should be evident when it is cold, and if the problem has developed far enough then it will also occur when you rev the engine in nuetral and allow it to return to idle, if you can hear the flutter, then I suggest that you go and have a real good talk with your dealer, because there is a high chance that they are screwing you.
It may also occur when you rev your engine up slowly until it reaches an RPM wher it will continuosly emitt this noise all the time.

Have a listen and tell me what you think it is, if it sounds anything like wha I have just told you then message back straight away.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hello again and thanks, That is the exact problem, it happens exactly how you described as in wen you slowly apply revs to the motor and back off its like backlash in the timing chain sorta thing, it sounds like marbles rattling kinda thing and it speeds up with revs etc
 

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OK, but is it more evident when the engine is idling down i.e coming down to idle from a particular RPM?

Example: revving the engine upto around 2500rpm, then allowing to run down to idle and the noise is most evient here.

Is this correct.

The marbles was a good description. :lol:
 

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Originally posted by Dr. Hundi@Oct 26 2004, 01:29 PM
OK, but is it more evident when the engine is idling down i.e coming down to idle from a particular RPM?

Example: revving the engine upto around 2500rpm, then allowing to run down to idle and the noise is most evient here.

Is this correct.

The marbles was a god description. :lol:
[snapback]2042[/snapback]​

Yeap thats correct, exactly how you described it!
 

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I am sorry to say then that you are more than likely looking at an engine rebuild.
The reason why I say "more than likely", is because I still can't hear it.

But there is a problem that Hyundai 4 cylinder and Mitsubishi based V6's have.

The problem is called piston slap. This is basically where the piston to bore clearance is excessive, causing increased and rapid wear, resulting in the noise that you are hearing.

Basically the way that this problem is overcome is the motor is completely dissassembled and the cylinder bore bored out to the next oversize, which for memory is 0.25mm.

They then supply pistons that will fit into the cylinder bore that will have the correct piston to bore clearance.
You will no longer have the problem after this repair has been carried out.
I assume that your vehicle is still in warranty.

If so take it back to them and explain your situation, they then should come to the party. If they don't and they cannot diagnose what the problem is, then contact Hyundai head office and tell them your problem.
 

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The dealer should do an engine compression test. With wear severe enough to cause pistons to be banging around, one would expect a significant compression loss as well.

With piston wear there will often be excessive oil consumption. At 50,000 kilometres the engine should not be burning oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hey again,
I dont think it sounds like piston slap its more of a timing chain noise as the motor is not consuming one bit of oil and there is no lack of power etc and i did a blow-by test on the PCV system and it seems to have the correct amount of vacuum and there is no postive pressure in the system, However! I wouldn't go as far as eliminating the possibility of it being piston slap as the noise is more evident when the engine is cold and i know as i am a mechanic by trade that once the engine is warm the metals in the motor expand and take up all the clearances etc which should eliminate the slap which it seems to be doing as the engine doesnt generally make any sound after its reached operating temp. could it possibly be an idler pulley or water pump pulley noise?
 

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It is all quite possible, however it is quite difficult to diagnose over the net.

Another thing that I noticed is that you are a Sydney sider.
Where abouts in Sydney are you.
If you are not too far away then I would be more than happy to meet up with you and tell you exactly what your problem is.

By the way, if it the timing chain that is making a noise it will be there pretty much all the time. In addition tho this the timing chain sounds a little plasticy and hollow.
 

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Hi!......the rattling sound you here when starting from cold is common in Hyundais & is actually not harmful.....just annoying & a little embarassing!.

Instead of the solid tappets found in many cars, modern Hyundais have hydraulic lash adjusters which don`t require gap-setting adjustment.

They fill themselves automatically with engine oil when the motor is running, but this tends to drain back into the sump (oilpan) overnight & it takes a little while on starting in the morning for them to refill......especially in cold weather.....hence the tapping sound.

The cure for this is to use flushing oil just before your next oil-change, drain, replace the filter & refill with a good pure synthetic oil such as Mobil 1.

Nick. :)
 

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to Dr Hundi
1- the alpfa engine isn't a Mitsubichi based engine, it is a HYUNDAI designed motor.
2- a piston slap it promonent on acceleration , and not on deceleration.

to the chaotic one
do you hear that noise at idle??
what is the temperature when this happen??
 

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Duke wrote

to Dr Hundi
1- the alpfa engine isn't a Mitsubichi based engine, it is a HYUNDAI designed motor.
2- a piston slap it promonent on acceleration , and not on deceleration.


Be very careful duke. I did not say that the Alpha motor is a Mitsubishi based motor:
Read carefully the following which I will quote:
But there is a problem that Hyundai 4 cylinder and Mitsubishi based V6's have.


I have over 3.5 years solid experience with Hyundai and find it very unerving that my information is being considered inferior.

If your lifters are bleeding down overnight as suggested by Duke, then you have an even bigger problem than what you first thought.
As the all of the Hyundai 4 cylinder motor range experienced piston slap, and the description that I have been provided, I feel confident that the problem being experienced by the chaotic one is that of Piston Slap.

If you have ever been given the task to diagnose the engine noise, that is in Hyundai motors, you will find that the slap is more evident on over run. As is the old curse of ring flutter.

However I am only here to give sound advice, as much that is possible over the page.
Anybody who chooses to believe otherwise, will be their call.

VALKYRIE YB70

Hi!......the rattling sound you here when starting from cold is common in Hyundais & is actually not harmful.....just annoying & a little embarassing!.


Any noise that appears to be abnormal, usually is.
If there is an impact noise within a motor, then this is considered abnormal!
Any noise that is causing impact is breaking through the protective oil coating and causing impact wear on the component it is fouling with.

P.S nor do the engines show any definite signs of oil consumption or significant loss of compression. The compression that is lost is still within manufacturer's specifications! Believe it or not.
 

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Dr Hundy,
Sorry, I misread this.
As for your statement:
>> As the all of the Hyundai 4 cylinder motor range experienced piston slap <<

that is news to me. My 1990 Sonata 2.4 had not developed one, even after 436000km, Yes, the odd one does display a slight slap at 0°C or colder.

>> If your lifters are bleeding down overnight as suggested by Duke <<
WOHA hier, I never made such declaration !!!

Wanting to give sound advice is always commendable. You have 3.5 years Hyundai experience, is that at a dealership technicians level??

Just for your info, I am over 40 years in the motor trade, which of 19 are with Hyundai as the technical specialist.
 

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My apologies Duke, I meant Valkyrie YB70.

Yes my training is through dealership, but I have a fair level of Hyundai Training which is carried out at the Hyundai Australia HeadQuarters here in Sydney.

I believe that we have not yet rebuilt one of the 4 cylinder motors from the Sonata, Tiburon or Santa Fe range. Yet!

So in addition to my comment, maybe not all, but all of the rest.
We have even rebuilt a Santa Fe V6 for this problem. Which was a rather large surprise to me, as I believe that this is one of the best motors that Hyundai have going for them in their product range! 2.5 and 2.7l V6s
 

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Originally posted by Dr. Hundi@Nov 2 2004, 08:58 AM
My apologies Duke, I meant Valkyrie YB70.

Yes my training is through dealership, but I have a fair level of Hyundai Training which is carried out at the Hyundai Australia HeadQuarters here in Sydney.

I believe that we have not yet rebuilt one of the 4 cylinder motors from the Sonata, Tiburon or Santa Fe range. Yet!

So in addition to my comment, maybe not all, but all of the rest.
We have even rebuilt a Santa Fe V6 for this problem. Which was a rather large surprise to me, as I believe that this is one of the best motors that Hyundai have going for them in their product range! 2.5 and 2.7l V6s
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I have to take issue with you on this one!.
Ticking HLA`s, following a cold start are easily the most common mechanical `fault` reported on Hyundai engines.

If you care to do a search on any of the Hyundai forums, you will find several hundred posts on exactly this matter.
Only rarely did the lifters have to be replaced......treatment with engine flushing oil, followed by an oil-change (to pure synthetic) invariably either cures the problem, or reduces the `tick` to a very brief time following the first start of the day.

Nick.
 

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Yes but this is probably the owners interpretation of the noise.

I have never heard a set of lifters tap, on a cold start up, unless in a case where the engine has not been regularly and properly maintained.

I am 100% positive that Hyundai motors experience the problem known as "piston slap" as I have rebuilt a fair number of Accent motors, Elantra Motrors and have just recently finished a motor rebuild on a Getz.

If you would like to take this matter further, then I suggest that you research Hyundai Technical Service Bulletins to find further information on the topic of piston slap, as the problem is more prominent here than Hydraulic Lifter Failure.

VALKYRIE YB70 wrote:
I have to take issue with you on this one!.
Ticking HLA`s, following a cold start are easily the most common mechanical `fault` reported on Hyundai engines.


Possibly where you are located, but not in this part of the world.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
hello, thanks to you all for your helpful input, the oil i have been usin in it is the ECO10 100% synthetic oil from Shell (Helix) its 10w30 rated

its really doesnt sound like a piston slap as my 5ltr LJ torana had piston slap recently and i had to pull down the motor, it really sounds more like a timing chain problem as the noise sounds kind of like the chain making a flicking/fluttering sound as it passes over wat sounds like a hollow or cast bit of alloy as in the cyl. head material? but yea anyway thats the closest thing i can seem to describe it as?
 

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First of all, if the noise is gone after a few minutes, then it isn't the timing chain; it would make noise all the time. It most likely is a lifter, which has bled down a little after long engine off, and gets filled up again after start up. This is not serious, nor is it a fault (as per shop manual page EMA –31)
I would flush the engine with "WYNN'S (or EXTEND) engine flush"; to clean out internal sludge, which is the main culprit for lifters.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Originally posted by duke@Nov 6 2004, 12:49 AM
First of all, if the noise is gone after a few minutes, then it isn't the timing chain; it would make noise all the time. It most likely is a lifter, which has bled down a little after long engine off, and gets filled up again after start up. This is not serious, nor is it a fault (as per shop manual page EMA –31)
I would flush the engine with "WYNN'S (or EXTEND) engine flush"; to clean out internal sludge, which is the main culprit for lifters.
[snapback]2368[/snapback]​


hello, i have flushed the motor with Nulon engine flush and changed the oil and filter however the problem hasnt changed, the noise is there most of the time but very very slight mainly when the engine is decellerating or when slowly revved up to a certain RPM it gets to a certain rev range and it gets to its loudest point then after that it goes away say around 2500-3000rpm and if you slowly rev it up then start to decellerate but kind of hold it at a certain rpm the noise is present for a few seconds till the revs stabilise again.
 

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Mr Chaos,

We have explained to you our thoughts on your topic of discussion, maybe it is now time to take the vehicle to your dealer, or another for that matter and have them diagnose the problem.
I have offered you my personal assisstance with this matter, yet you choose to disregard it.

Therefore in my eyes, we are attempting to make a diagnosis which may never be correct, given that your vehicle is still in warranty, take it there and then let us know what the problem was.

Dr. Hundi
:)
 
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