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1998 Coupe swapped 2.0
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

I am new to this forum but have owned my coupe for about 5 years now. Im currently in the process of boring out the cylinder head for the 2l going in.

Whilst taking out the valve springs I fear I may have done some damage. The truth is though, that I'm not too seasoned at this engine building thing so Im hoping someone who has done this a bit more than me may be either able to put my mind to rest or tell me what my best bet moving forward is.

So the damage is in two areas. I realises halfway through removing valves that Ive been allowing the tool to rest against the bottom set of Cam bearings. Its nicked the metal and pushed it ever so slightly up towards the cam. Ive read a bit of fine fine wet and dry and some WD could level it out?
Secondly on one valve I managed to let the tool slip and it scored the imside of the tappet bore. Running my finger over I cant feel that its raises but its evidently there. Is this likely to cause wear on the tappet?

Also can some more informed person please comfirm that these tappets are solid and not hydraulic?

Many thanks for any help in advance
454472
454473
20210207_010235.jpg
 

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2016 Elantra GT 2.0 GDI auto base model
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Should be a Beta engine, so the tappets are solid. Should be obvious by looking at them. As for the damage, I would clean that up [don't over do it] and it wouldn't cross my mind again.
 

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1998 Coupe swapped 2.0
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ya Beta G4GF or GR whichever the 2l is. You are right I had a fiddle with them and they are solid.

Thanks for that. When you say cleaning up, what exactly do you have in mind?
 

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2016 Elantra GT 2.0 GDI auto base model
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As you suggested, fine wet paper with light oil. Just remove the high material, don't make the entire bore bigger. Catch/clean/remove any material that comes off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks for the second opinion. Now wheres that 2000 grit gone
 

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Hello all,

I am new to this forum but have owned my coupe for about 5 years now. Im currently in the process of boring out the cylinder head for the 2l going in.

Whilst taking out the valve springs I fear I may have done some damage. The truth is though, that I'm not too seasoned at this engine building thing so Im hoping someone who has done this a bit more than me may be either able to put my mind to rest or tell me what my best bet moving forward is.

So the damage is in two areas. I realises halfway through removing valves that Ive been allowing the tool to rest against the bottom set of Cam bearings. Its nicked the metal and pushed it ever so slightly up towards the cam. Ive read a bit of fine fine wet and dry and some WD could level it out?
Secondly on one valve I managed to let the tool slip and it scored the imside of the tappet bore. Running my finger over I cant feel that its raises but its evidently there. Is this likely to cause wear on the tappet?

Also can some more informed person please comfirm that these tappets are solid and not hydraulic?

Many thanks for any help in advance View attachment 454472 View attachment 454473 View attachment 454472
Well, it was only going to be time when someone finally discovered why my neighbor and I stopped rebuilding any of the new engines. Still play with vintage 911, Ferrari V12, Pontiac 455 HO, Ford FE, Alfa Romeo 2600, etc...

1). You have too find a company capable of line boring the cam carrier. Very small diameter, and hold 2/10,000 of inch or 20 millions. Good luck.
2). You have to find a dealer who will sell you the over-sized diameter cam, lifters, rockers and someone who can finish the ends of the valves, and hardened it. Good Luck.
3). You need to keep everything clean. If the cam bearings got trashed from wear, you need to replace all the cam phasers, chain tensioners and selonoids, Those items are impossible to clean. You must clean all the oil passages.

After all that been done, don’t expect the old engine to last 6 months. These new engines require extremely tight tolerances and cleanliness. Not +-0.002 old days. It’s +0.0001 and -0.0001 on fitting parts. (10 millions inch) Everything needs to be completely clean. Hair and skin flakes are 0.005” can destroy bearings clearances.
 

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Old Farts like me, worked on old engines at vintage races, uses to take out our pocket knife and scrape away the high spots. Then run 40w or 50w axle oil, ie STP or Lucas (100w). You cannot do that with the new engines. The phasers, timing chain tensioners, solenoids, oil pumps, oil pressure, oil thermostats all run on thin oil. It’s not just the bearing clearance.

Heck most people cannot even measure the clearances. The cam to carrier clearance is 0.0008” to 0.0012”. Most people cannot even get close to repetitively measure to +-0.0002 to get the right clearance.

Go purchase complete head assembly from the factory.

I keep stressing, it is easy to keep these engines clean. Once dirty, they are throw awsy.

Guess why 5 yr old BMW M6 convertibles with V10 or 4.4 twin turbo depreciated 85-90%. A $150,000 car can be had for $20K usd. No one on the West Coast of USA have a small diameter line bore machine long enough with 0.00002” repeatability or $8,500-$10,000 in cam drive train. That’s not including the machine time or assembly. New engines are $45K usd.

BMW owners are notorious lead-foot, deferred maintenance used oil collectors. The brag about not changing their oils for 12-18 months or 15,000 miles. There engines are wasted by 60K, throw away junk!
 

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Those spots can easily be polished out but my concern is the surface finish inside the cam journal. It looks quiet damaged to me assumung the cam runs in the head without a bearing. Maybe it's just the pic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Those spots can easily be polished out but my concern is the surface finish inside the cam journal. It looks quiet damaged to me assumung the cam runs in the head without a bearing. Maybe it's just the pic.
Hi thanks,

This did actually cross my mind when removing the cams. Not so much from the journal surface but actually from the cam itself. There is some scoring on there.

Having said that Ive seen butter smooth engines that just purr, with more wear than that.

The picture does exaggerate it but I must admit I did share your concern. Especially as the service history for this engine shows services as regular as every 4k miles. However it did have a new sump in 2012...wonder what that was about.

This one has covered 110k miles. Its replacing the 1.6 which has covered 55k. Might be an interesting excercise to pop the cover off and see how the cams compare Scoring wise
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, it was only going to be time when someone finally discovered why my neighbor and I stopped rebuilding any of the new engines. Still play with vintage 911, Ferrari V12, Pontiac 455 HO, Ford FE, Alfa Romeo 2600, etc...

1). You have too find a company capable of line boring the cam carrier. Very small diameter, and hold 2/10,000 of inch or 20 millions. Good luck.
2). You have to find a dealer who will sell you the over-sized diameter cam, lifters, rockers and someone who can finish the ends of the valves, and hardened it. Good Luck.
3). You need to keep everything clean. If the cam bearings got trashed from wear, you need to replace all the cam phasers, chain tensioners and selonoids, Those items are impossible to clean. You must clean all the oil passages.

After all that been done, don’t expect the old engine to last 6 months. These new engines require extremely tight tolerances and cleanliness. Not +-0.002 old days. It’s +0.0001 and -0.0001 on fitting parts. (10 millions inch) Everything needs to be completely clean. Hair and skin flakes are 0.005” can destroy bearings clearances.
You have some valuable knowledge and experience there fella. And I know all to well the issues we face as tolerances tighten as you say.

Having said that, I get the feeling youre suggesting I throw out and replace the head because it will be too difficult to clean?

I undertsand the importance of removing all the crud that this engine has collected whilst sitting on my bench for 3 years, and believe me I will get rid of all of it. Even if it takes 10 flushes of oil. Might even sneak it in and use the dishwasher when the mrs asleep before the head goes back on lol.

I also know that in an ideal world, to make a perfectly reliable engine, we would machine out the head and drop 5 grand at the machine shop before buying some oversized cams, oversized tappets, oh and why not bore out the cylinders whilst we're at it too.

Thing is this is not the original engine for the car. I paid £150 for this donor car, and no i did not forget a zero. If I get 15000 miles out of it I will be happy
 

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Why these new engines are so difficult for garage mechanics to fix? Open the clearance to one bearing surface, the thin oil will leak-out from that area starving all the rest of the engine of oil. Run heavy viscosity, the oil pump will over-load, blowing seals, cam phasers and solenoids will not sink properly, tight clearances will not allow the high viscosity oil to properly flow starving the engine of oil, causing failure.
 

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You have some valuable knowledge and experience there fella. And I know all to well the issues we face as tolerances tighten as you say.

Having said that, I get the feeling youre suggesting I throw out and replace the head because it will be too difficult to clean?

I undertsand the importance of removing all the crud that this engine has collected whilst sitting on my bench for 3 years, and believe me I will get rid of all of it. Even if it takes 10 flushes of oil. Might even sneak it in and use the dishwasher when the mrs asleep before the head goes back on lol.

I also know that in an ideal world, to make a perfectly reliable engine, we would machine out the head and drop 5 grand at the machine shop before buying some oversized cams, oversized tappets, oh and why not bore out the cylinders whilst we're at it too.

Thing is this is not the original engine for the car. I paid £150 for this donor car, and no i did not forget a zero. If I get 15000 miles out of it I will be happy
The only way to local machining shops to perform the task is to make it a racer. Remove the cam phasers, solenoids and clearance your oil pump and fixed cam phasing. This will reduce your torque rpm range and reduce MPG and drive the computer crazy.

It might be less expensive to purchase a remanufactured complete head from Hyundai/Kia.

Also remember, many of these new engines use torque to yield bolts and are one time use.
 

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What you’re doing is a good alternative. Get a junk-yard clean low mileage engine transmission and computer. These engines have sensors that are mapped to the computer via bus-link, so you might have to get all the electronics to match.

Get a bore-scope from Home-Depot for $150-$200 and bore-scope any used engine. This can insure the engine was low mileage and well maintained
 

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The engine computer talks to the transmission to adjust the internal pressure and shifting.
You need a dealer level diagnostic tool with “Service” functions. That’s a $4500-$8000 computer with annual fees, to reset and have the computers talk to each other.

Damage to these new engine transmissions can become an endless money pit.

It’s much easier to change the fluids using the severe service schedule and keep everything clean. These are well made engines and transmissions. They do not like to be abused with lack of maintenance.
 

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If you don’t have too much money into this project. Part out the car to recover your money. Walk, no run away from this rabbit hole - money pit!!!
 

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Ol' Ray is off his meds again.🙄🙄
Basically he's saying that it's impossible for anyone to ever make an internal repair on these engines. Which also means that MOBAX has been flat out lying about all of the blown Thetas that he posted about rebuilding over the past few years. ROTFLAMO.
 

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Basically he's saying that it's impossible for anyone to ever make an internal repair on these engines. Which also means that MOBAX has been flat out lying about all of the blown Thetas that he posted about rebuilding over the past few years. ROTFLAMO.
Dearest silly,

There are engine repair shops that can repair and remanufacture Hyundai/Kia engines. These shops are also set-up with factory grade equipments. They don’t perform small jobs or single engine rebuilds.

1). Over heat your engine and the head warp. You will need to deck and line-bore, line-hone the cams and get over-sized cams.

2). Don’t change your engine oil and get dirty oil to trigger the oil by-pass, damage, main/rod bearings, cam bearings, phasers, timing chain, oil pump, oil pressure req., solenoids, hydraulic lifters, roller rockers, valve stem/seals. You need to replace many parts and line-bore-hone many components.

Yes, there are “Getto” rebuilds. Just visit the BMW club website. There are many who claim they got the lower rod bearings replaced for under $4K. Their engines do not last. They do a ”Getto” repair and dump the car. These “Getto” rebuild do not include line-bore-hone for cams, main or rods. These ”Getto” rebuilds also do not replace metal contaminated parts.

As I have previously stated, it is very difficult to clean these very high tolerances metal parts. We (my neighbor and I) have used a powerful MAGA flux to demagnetized the disassembled parts for cleaning but continue to get metal contamination out of the parts In ultrasonic tank.

The person who claimed rebuilding the new Hyundai Engines should tell us which line-boring-honing machine he used. 99.99% he did not line-bore-hone or perform demagnetized and ultrasonic hot tank the parts.
 

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Why small job shops don’t have small diameter, very high precision line bore honing machine?

Rotter and Sunnen have the CNC line boring honing machines. The cost $100K to $250K with the precision cutters, hones, bore bars costing $15K-$25K. Unless those machine shops are rebuilding hundreds and thousands of engines every day. The cannot recover the cost for the machines. Hence there are ZERO job shops on the West Coast of USA with the precision small bore line-boring-hone which can hold tight tolerances.
 
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