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Discussion Starter #1
Thinking about upgrading all of the door speakers....I used to have a pretty intense system in my old car with two 12"s pounding in the back but with this car I want more of a classy approach. Ditching the sub, and upgrading only the interior speakers. I have already seen the posting regarding the tweeters etc, but does any one know the specs of the remaining speakers in the car?

The 4 door speakers and the two in the rear....

And also any advice on what speakers I should get....

:liebe011:
 

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QUOTE (British_boy86 @ Oct 26 2010, 02:28 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=366471
Thinking about upgrading all of the door speakers....I used to have a pretty intense system in my old car with two 12"s pounding in the back but with this car I want more of a classy approach. Ditching the sub, and upgrading only the interior speakers. I have already seen the posting regarding the tweeters etc, but does any one know the specs of the remaining speakers in the car?

The 4 door speakers and the two in the rear....

And also any advice on what speakers I should get....

:liebe011:

I am strongly considering these for the front doors:

http://www.mach5audio.com/zen/index.php?ma...74d46d5127d903b

They are cheap, will play smoothly to 4khz, and have a good reputation generally.

With some Dayton tweeters in the sails, handmade custom crossovers, and the combo running 75w RMS I should be sitting pretty.

I really could not care less about the rear stage generally but may toss in some Boston Acoustics coaxes for the sake of my kid who rides back there.
 

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while you're in there, add some sound proofing to the doors. have you ever listened from outside the car, radio half volume, and the windows up? you can hear the radio quite well though the doors outside. the panels actually visibly pulsate with the music
 

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QUOTE (gregd71 @ Oct 26 2010, 07:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=366555
while you're in there, add some sound proofing to the doors. have you ever listened from outside the car, radio half volume, and the windows up? you can hear the radio quite well though the doors outside. the panels actually visibly pulsate with the music

Yup, not going to even open the doors until I get some SSA or similar deadener plus a layer of noise blocker (mass-loaded vinyl or maybe Shark's sound absorber pads) somewhere between the door panel and the door. I saw that shark sells a "DIY" noise layer but might try making my own (true DIY). I have to say, from inside the car, the doors are pretty quiet from outside noise. Big H did a good job but always room for improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So from what I found out, its 6 1/2 all round in the doors. Basically all mids.....

Does anyone know if its possible to fit a 6 x 9 in the rear doors? Or even the front ones? It would a lot nicer to get more a deep sound. Not sure if there is enough space or if any addition harness would be required. Before I pull off the door panel I just wanted to be prepared.
 

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Does anyone know why the rear speakers are lower in volume than the front? I know that most new cars are engineered now with the louder volume in the front.

Is it that the speakers are different, is it the speaker location, and/or the audio level?

I'm old school and I would rather have the rear speakers driving the sound with the front speakers filling in the rest.
 

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QUOTE (P Haggard @ Oct 27 2010, 10:17 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=366839
Does anyone know why the rear speakers are lower in volume than the front? I know that most new cars are engineered now with the louder volume in the front.

Is it that the speakers are different, is it the speaker location, and/or the audio level?

I'm old school and I would rather have the rear speakers driving the sound with the front speakers filling in the rest.

Do you go to a concert and face the back wall too?
 

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QUOTE (robspeedGLS @ Oct 27 2010, 08:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=366854
Do you go to a concert and face the back wall too?
When you go to a concert do you try to stand all the way in the back or do you try to get as close to the front as possible? Wouldn't you love to be on the stage with the band?

Until the last few years the main car stereo speakers were located in the rear deck under the rear window. Everything else was for filling the car with sound.

Stereo is supposed to put you in the middle of the music, not in front of it.
 

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QUOTE (P Haggard @ Oct 28 2010, 10:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=366918
When you go to a concert do you try to stand all the way in the back or do you try to get as close to the front as possible? Wouldn't you love to be on the stage with the band?

Until the last few years the main car stereo speakers were located in the rear deck under the rear window. Everything else was for filling the car with sound.

Stereo is supposed to put you in the middle of the music, not in front of it.
+1

I miss having those speakers in the rear deck. Those were the ones that would provide the sound IMO. Anyone know if its possible to fit those 6 x 9's in the doors???
 

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QUOTE (P Haggard @ Oct 28 2010, 10:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=366918
When you go to a concert do you try to stand all the way in the back or do you try to get as close to the front as possible? Wouldn't you love to be on the stage with the band?

Until the last few years the main car stereo speakers were located in the rear deck under the rear window. Everything else was for filling the car with sound.

Stereo is supposed to put you in the middle of the music, not in front of it.

I get close to the front to SEE the band. I dont get on stage, and I dont get up close and then point the wrong direction. You said you wanted the music primarily from the back. That is exactly what I said it is, like going to a concert and facing the wrong direction.

Forget big concerts. Say its you and a solo violinist in the same room. There she is, there you are. I assume you will both respect each other's "personal space" and you wont be sitting in her lap or vice-versa. What direction will you choose to face?

Its performer/s, audience. The "stage" is in front of you, with the performer on it, and there you are watching and listening from the audience. If most of the music is coming from behind you, you arent "on stage", you arent "in" the music, you are just facing the wrong way!

I understand your preference is a personal one based on how you are used to hearing music in a car. That approach came from a time when the allmighty 6x9s in the back deck were often the ONLY speakers in the car. If not the only ones, then at least the biggest ones fed the most power. That was an unfortunate period in car audio and, in my opinion, the wrong way to do it for the reasons enumerated above.

My point was that Big H's approach reflects the natural way we experience musical performances. Like I said I respect your opinion and preference, Im just trying to explain why they do it the way they do it. If you want to customize your experience that is going to require a trip to the local car stereo installer (or to your garage if you are a DIY person like me). You could probably get some 6x9s put in the rear deck, add an amplifier and go to town.
 

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First of all, through my experience most car manufacturers place speakers dependent on fit and as an afterthought. Although stock systems are certainly getting better, do you really think the engineers planned on placing larger speakers in the back because thats where they wanted most of the sound to come from? If so, why do they put the speakers firing into your legs? Or in the back doors instead of the rear deck (on my trim). OR, do you think thats where it's easiest to fit larger speakers because fitting them in the front doors would take re-engineering all of the actual important stuff in the car and moving it around.

Most cars have the larger speakers in the rear if they are different sizes, but I'd say the majority of ALL cars have the same size speakers in the rear as the front, and when they do theres usually more speakers (tweeters) up front to over-balance it towards the front. But then Dodge has had 6x9s up in the front and the same size or SMALLER speakers in the rear for years and years.

If you think the stereo in a car isn't just an afterthought, well, I disagree.
 

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QUOTE (British_boy86 @ Oct 27 2010, 01:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=366720
So from what I found out, its 6 1/2 all round in the doors. Basically all mids.....

Does anyone know if its possible to fit a 6 x 9 in the rear doors? Or even the front ones? It would a lot nicer to get more a deep sound. Not sure if there is enough space or if any addition harness would be required. Before I pull off the door panel I just wanted to be prepared.
Probably not. I really don't know for sure, but 6x9s are usually quite a bit larger. Just space is what you need, and modification to the sheet metal in the door...
 

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I believe a lot of engineering went into the Soanta's speaker locations but I believe the engineers wanted or thought it was better to have the sound towards the front.

Up until the last few years cars had the main speakers in the rear deck but that wasn't the only speakers you could have in a car. I have had cars with 6 or 7 speaker if you count a sub woofer but it still sounds, to me, better that way. You have the bass and the drums behind you, the tweeters in the dash or post to give you the highs, and with the mid range doors you get the main sound in the middle of your head.

I think the Sonata radio sounds good but it sounds like the music is coming from the floor mats. I just want something fuller.

Since we all agree that we all have our own tastes what I really miss on my Sonata radio really isn't the speaker location but with the Fader I don't have the option to change it. If I slide the Fader more to the rear speakers the front ones just get to low to sound good. I thought that was what a Fader and Balance were for.

I agree with what was said about Dodge. I traded a 2007 Dodge Ram in on my Sonata and the sound was also focused to the front.
 

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QUOTE (P Haggard @ Oct 29 2010, 12:51 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=367171
I believe a lot of engineering went into the Soanta's speaker locations but I believe the engineers wanted or thought it was better to have the sound towards the front.

Up until the last few years cars had the main speakers in the rear deck but that wasn't the only speakers you could have in a car. I have had cars with 6 or 7 speaker if you count a sub woofer but it still sounds, to me, better that way. You have the bass and the drums behind you, the tweeters in the dash or post to give you the highs, and with the mid range doors you get the main sound in the middle of your head.

I think the Sonata radio sounds good but it sounds like the music is coming from the floor mats. I just want something fuller.

Since we all agree that we all have our own tastes what I really miss on my Sonata radio really isn't the speaker location but with the Fader I don't have the option to change it. If I slide the Fader more to the rear speakers the front ones just get to low to sound good. I thought that was what a Fader and Balance were for.

I agree with what was said about Dodge. I traded a 2007 Dodge Ram in on my Sonata and the sound was also focused to the front.

I am part of an automotive subculture that spends an inordinate amount of time and money trying to turn a moving car into a living room sound system. One of the basic, most fundamental goals among people like these is to actually make it so the drum and bass sounds, at minimum, sound like they are coming from nowhere in particular, and ideally, from the front with the rest of the sound. We set the front "stage" with the best imaging possible by locating and, if possible, aiming the tweeter and midranges. Then fitting the biggest possible midbasses UP FRONT to continue to localize the majority of the sound in front of the listener. Some of these people go so far as to actually put the subwoofer up front somewhere, but for the rest of us, we strive to create the illusion that the sub bass is coming from "somewhere" but definitely not locatable behind you. Given that low frequencies themselves are not locatable by the human ear (we dont hear low bass in stereo), this is done by setting the low-pass crossover point as low as possible while still blending the overall response with the front midbasses, and eliminating all the higher-frequency artifacts created by strong bass waves as much as possible. These include rattles from the back of the car, using equalization to eliminate audible peaks in response, time-alignment (tuning phase so all the sounds arrive at your ears at the same time), etc. Also, in the case of "rear fill" actually lowering the level of, delaying in phase, and altering the stereo signal (subtracting the left from the right signal so all you hear is the differences between them) in the back of the car. This is all done to mimic the subtle echoes you'd hear in a real concert venue. I dont do this because I just dont like any sound coming from the back and all that seems like a lot of effort for little results.

Just saying. If I was you, I *might* look into simply switching the outputs on the back of the stock head unit front-to-back. You can do this by snipping the wires, swapping and soldering, or by actually moving the wires inside the connectors that plug into the back of the deck. You will still have the issue of the front dash speakers being up there, but you could also add some midranges and tweeters to the back deck to compensate, and then use the fader control to balance things. Or just put a set of 6x9s back there to have even more sound coming from the back which would naturally overpower the front especially with a wiring swap.
 

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Arguments aside; it would have been nice, and im surprised it doesnt have the option, if you could independently control the sub through the HU. That would take care of a number of others issues (being as the sub is on the REAR settings)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
QUOTE (British_boy86 @ Oct 29 2010, 12:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=367296
Just found the coolest tool...

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Pro...section=landing

You can custom build your sound system!!

And also, how is the performance on shallow subs? Does anyone have one? And what the best place to install one for the Sonata??

No one knows about shallow subwoofer performance???? Any advice would help, I'm considering buying one for the Sonata, ideas on the location would also help...
 

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QUOTE (robspeedGLS @ Oct 29 2010, 06:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=367256
I am part of an automotive subculture that spends an inordinate amount of time and money trying to turn a moving car into a living room sound system. One of the basic, most fundamental goals among people like these is to actually make it so the drum and bass sounds, at minimum, sound like they are coming from nowhere in particular, and ideally, from the front with the rest of the sound. We set the front "stage" with the best imaging possible by locating and, if possible, aiming the tweeter and midranges. Then fitting the biggest possible midbasses UP FRONT to continue to localize the majority of the sound in front of the listener. Some of these people go so far as to actually put the subwoofer up front somewhere, but for the rest of us, we strive to create the illusion that the sub bass is coming from "somewhere" but definitely not locatable behind you. Given that low frequencies themselves are not locatable by the human ear (we dont hear low bass in stereo), this is done by setting the low-pass crossover point as low as possible while still blending the overall response with the front midbasses, and eliminating all the higher-frequency artifacts created by strong bass waves as much as possible. These include rattles from the back of the car, using equalization to eliminate audible peaks in response, time-alignment (tuning phase so all the sounds arrive at your ears at the same time), etc. Also, in the case of "rear fill" actually lowering the level of, delaying in phase, and altering the stereo signal (subtracting the left from the right signal so all you hear is the differences between them) in the back of the car. This is all done to mimic the subtle echoes you'd hear in a real concert venue. I dont do this because I just dont like any sound coming from the back and all that seems like a lot of effort for little results.

Just saying. If I was you, I *might* look into simply switching the outputs on the back of the stock head unit front-to-back. You can do this by snipping the wires, swapping and soldering, or by actually moving the wires inside the connectors that plug into the back of the deck. You will still have the issue of the front dash speakers being up there, but you could also add some midranges and tweeters to the back deck to compensate, and then use the fader control to balance things. Or just put a set of 6x9s back there to have even more sound coming from the back which would naturally overpower the front especially with a wiring swap.
Swapping the front and rear audio lines is a very good suggestion. I might try that. Thanks.

As far as sounding like the living room, I have 4 exact size speakers in each corner of the room. It's my left and right for the front of the surround and the left an right of the rear. For TV I want the sound around and behind me with the center speker carrying the voice etc., but when listening to music my 4 speaker setup ( plus sub-woofer) puts me in the middle of the sound. If I wanted the sound in front of me I would just listen to stereo. That's me. Why has car design in the past kept the stero sound to the rear? I have never seen a car with the sound focused on the front until the 2000's. Is it the type of music the majority now listens to such as hip hop that has more focus on the bass?
 
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