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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

Bit of help needed. I have a 2002 deisel. The car is working great and has been very reliable. However it recently started just cutting out whilst driving. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it and when it works it purrs like a kitten. when it cuts out all the dash lights go on and it registers a fault because the check engine light comes on. After about 30 seconds it starts up fine. The fault light resets afte a day or so. Sometimes it will run for days with no cut outs and sometimes, like today , it did it 5 times in the space of 12 miles! I have heard that the CPS is dodgey on some of these and it would make sense that it could be failing as the fault seems to be very dramatic but intermitant. The engine doesnt misfire, blow out black smoke etc and is not difficlut to start normally.I know someone will answer 'get the code read' but I live in the middle of no where and its xmas time so cant afford to pay the dealer 75 quid to check a code that may not be very precise or helpful.

I am asking if this sounds like a cps failure and if anyone else has had this problem.

Also does anyone know where the CPS is and how to get it off?

Cheers Geoff

and merry xmas
 

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Hi Geoff,
Sounds indeed of a cps failure, maybe insulation crumbling so shorting out or so.
Think the cps is at the right side, back of the engine, middle height, at the flywheel housing somewhere. Suppose you need to take off the aircleaner housing for accessing it.
You could check some earlier threads about cps on this forum for more info.
Good luck,
Paul

And still have a merry xmas
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Geoff,
Sounds indeed of a cps failure, maybe insulation crumbling so shorting out or so.
Think the cps is at the right side, back of the engine, middle height, at the flywheel housing somewhere. Suppose you need to take off the aircleaner housing for accessing it.
You could check some earlier threads about cps on this forum for more info.
Good luck,
Paul

And still have a merry xmas
Cheers Paul,

I have ordered one and afer santa delivers it i will make an attempt to scrape all my knuckles off and install it.

Will keep you all updated

G
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well it appears I have been sent the wrong sensor. looks like I have the one for a 2.4 ltre petrol They did say it was for a deisel so I am sending it back and will reorder the new one.

I think I have found its location and it looks a real nightmare to get in. You have take of the airfilter and feel around by the bulkhead to find it. Is it easier to jack it up to get access? (I dont have any ramps)

Also the car wont start at all now so either the sensor has failed totally or something else has gone wrong.

Any advice would be greatfully recieved

Geoff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
well it wasnt the ckp.... ****...

IT HAS BEEN REPLACED AND THE CAR STILL CUTS OUT!!!!

I dont get it and Im wondering if anyone can help.

The car drives perfectly. There is no misfire and sometimes it will go for 50 miles with no cut out and sometimes it cuts out 5 times in 2 miles.

It always does the same..

  • Its only when its 'warm'
  • does have to be when accelerating hard just normal driving will do it.
  • All the dash lights come on so still getting elec power
  • It wont resart for about one minute then fires up perfectly.
  • There is no blue, white or black smoke out the back and the fuel consumption is the same
  • Never does it when idleing even if you leave it idleing for 2 hrs
  • Never does it if you rev the engine when in nuetral and stationary

Im going to take off the engine cover to see if there is any obvious loose connections but I am begining to suspect the following four things;

  1. A faulty injector
  2. A fault pressure relief valve on the rail
  3. A faulty fuel pressure sensor.
  4. faulty temp sensor?
I cant see it being the high presure pump as I cant see why that would work and then not? Im pretty sure the fuel pump in the tank is ok as Im sure I can here it priming when the ignition is turned on immediately after a cut out


Now can someone tell me what the symptoms should be for any of the four above? I ask because if there are obvious ones then I can rule one out.



I have heard that the pressure sensor is the week link on this system and that would cause the ecu to shut the engine down hence the 1 min wait for it to reset before it starts.


Am I right that faulty injector would have more symptoms and the car would run badly?


One last thing ...I have been using the spare key recently. Is it poss that the transponder in the key (if it has one) is faulty and telling the car the key has been removed? It never happened with the old key.



Its been a hard xmas and Im broke and need to fix this without a trip to the dealers to spend £100 getting the codes read.



Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Geoff :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
well it wasnt the ckp ****...

IT HAS BEEN REPLACED AND THE CAR STILL CUTS OUT!!!!

and they replaced the fuel filter so it wasnt that either....

I dont get it and Im wondering if anyone can help.

The car drives perfectly. There is no misfire and sometimes it will go for 50 miles with no cut out and sometimes it cuts out 5 times in 2 miles.

It always does the same..

  • Its only when its 'warm'
  • doesnt have to be when accelerating hard just normal driving will do it.
  • All the dash lights come on so still getting elec power
  • It wont resart for about one minute then fires up perfectly.
  • There is no blue, white or black smoke out the back and the fuel consumption is the same
  • Never does it when idleing even if you leave it idleing for 2 hrs
  • Never does it if you rev the engine when stationary

Im going to take off the engine cover to see if there is any obvious loose connections but I am begining to suspect the following four things;

  1. A faulty injector
  2. A fault pressure relief valve on the rail
  3. A faulty fuel pressure sensor.
  4. faulty temp sensor?
I cant see it being the high presure pump as I cant see why that would work and then not? Im pretty sure the fuel pump in the tank is ok as Im sure I can here it priming when the ignition is turned on immediately after a cut out


Now can someone tell me what the symptoms should be for any of the four above? I ask because if there are obvious ones then I can rule one out.



I have heard that the pressure sensor is the week link on this system and that would cause the ecu to shut the engine down hence the 1 min wait for it to reset before it starts.


Am I right that faulty injector would have more symptoms and the car would run badly?


One last thing ...I have been using the spare key recently. Is it poss that the transponder in the key (if it has one) is faulty and telling the car the key has been removed? It never happened with the old key.



Its been a hard xmas and Im broke and need to fix this without a trip to the dealers to spend £100 getting the codes read.



Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Geoff :(
 

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Hi Geoff,
So the CPS wasn't the faulty part.
OK, you mention 4 parts: faulty injector: this will not shut down the engine but let it run rough, so not enough.
Faulty pressure relief valve: coult be. It will release your rail fuel pressure, so not enough fuel for the injectors so it will shut down the engine when it opens.
Faulty fuel pressure sensor: could be. When it measures wrongly it could lower rail fuel pressure by ECU command to the pump. But you could measure it in real time to see if it's control voltage pin (2) changes rapidly when the engine shuts down. Normally it should keep it's voltage or loose it only slowly.
Temp sensor: could be. Known when it shows an overheat the ECU will shut down the engine for safety.
Again, you could measure it real time to see major differences at shut down.
Otherwise, you could measure voltage to the ECU fuse #1 and #2, both 20A, realtime at shutdown.
If lost then the engine control relay could be faulty, shutting down the ECU.
All in all a difficult problem to diagnose.
But, because a diesel only fuel related or electric related problems are possible.
Good luck,
Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Cheers for that Paul.

Am i right that even if the injectors had excessive leak back this would show up as a constant problem? I mean the injector would always have the excess leak back into the rail and not just when it gets warm. If thats the case I cant see how an injector would be causing the fault.

Also regarding the Fuel pressure sensor. Is it true that if the pressure is to low or high according to the sensor the ecu will shut the engine down?

Lastly I think im clutching at straws with the key thing can you confirm that?

And why would the temp sensor shut the engine down? and more importantly where is it on the 2.0 crtd 2002?

I think that the fuel sensor is looking more like the likely culprit as it seems that even bosch admit it is the weak link in the loop of the system.

Geoff
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Paul...on last question...

i recently refurbished the starter sol on this car and the fault started after then... its just occured to me ..is it possible that one of the connections on the starter motor is shorting out... I ask because i read this thread...

My Hyundai Santa Fe justs - Fixya

This says that the cam shaft position sensor runs off the satrter motor or has some connection through the loom to it. Is that true? and if it is would a loss of signal cause a stall..............
 

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Hi Geoff,
Forget about the injectors. You would have a jerky, rough going engine, which is not the case.
Don't know if the ECU will shutdown the engine at a low or high fuel pressure.
Suppose it will throw some error code in memory.
The camshaft sensor is used for initial startup timing of injectors when cranckshaft position is not yet established.
Combination with your starter motor? Did the fault starting to occur only after the motor was handled?
You could eventually check that camshaft sensor connector.
It is located at the right side, at the flywheel, half height engine at the back side somewhere.
Don't know exactly, never looked at mine.
However, you do not exactly have a starting issue, but a running issue, so to me a bit unlikely. But I do not know if the cam en cranck sensor are used for timing together all the time.
So I would suspect more of a cranckshaft sensor issue, but that was replaced.
A too high engine temperature will let the ECU shutdown the engine. It could be related to some severe engine problem, like loss of coolant.
So it will then shutdown.
Where it is located: I think at the left top front side of the engine near the alternator, don't know exactly. There were some threads in the past here about it's location so investigate.
Unfortunately the manual describes it but does not show a drawing of it's location.
It is a thermistor (NTC resistor). At 20 degr.C some 4.5 kohms. At 80degr.C some 330 ohms, so measurable. Like if it's harness would shortcircuit that would indicate a very high temp, so then the ECU would shutdown.
If it (intermittenly) would do this you would get a symptom like you describe of shutdown while driving.
But also a faulty fuel pressure sensor could be the culprit. You can measure it like described before. It should show a voltage of 1.5 or 2 volts on it's (middle) pin 2 (respect to ground) when functioning on a running engine.
If it varies erratic a lot or like it's bleeding down that could also be a sign of a problem with that fuel relief valve.
Good luck,
Paul
 

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hi there!! i had the same problem as described above,,engine didnt start when was warm and also sometimes didnt start when was completely cold... i cleaned the tank, serviced the injectors and the high pressure pump, changed the glow plugs which were all burnt...all the above cost me around 600 euros and still the problem after one week re occurred... the ecu of course had no errors to show.. and then my mechanic just changed the stupid cps sensor (part no 3918027000) which cost 25 euros and is located below the turbine at the level of the gearbox and in order to replace it and see where it is u need to remove the turbine air hoses. after that everything works great again and never had problems...of course if my mechanic was more experienced with santa fes he would know that this is a common problem that occurs frequently to the santas and i would still have the 600euros that i initially paid and still had the start problems.
in general my 03 crdi santa fe never troubled me before and i am very happy with my purchase so far but very frustrated with Bosch sensors because its these that usually stop working and so i decided to change them all (tdc sensor 3930027000, pressure sensor 0281002405 and the pressure regulator sensor 0281002445) in order to make it run flawlessly.

 
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