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Discussion Starter #1
This has probably been brought up before, but just thought I'd ask my question.

Okay, so I've heard that for turbo cars, short ram air is better and that cold air intakes will actually lose power. Is this true?

Also, which would be better for a n/a scoupe: cold air or short ram?
What about a beta engine (no turbo): cold or ram?

I would prefer people who have used both to answer these, but all are welcome if you have legitimate answers.

Let me know,
Nick
 

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as far as cold air intake (CAI), they dont have loss in power. However most people install them with aluminiumtubing. Aluminium conducts heat far more than rubber,plastic or silicone. Because of this it can heat up the the air flowing inside.

If you mean RAM by forcing front air inside while driving, will help too.

Think both are good
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The RAM air intakes I'm referring to are the short intakes that replace the stock box. CAI move the filter closer to the front bumper or fender well, if I'm not mistaken.

I've heard that CAI can also get water into the motor. I'm guessing that that's not a common problem due to the fact that MANY people have them. I would also think that the water coming in would be very minimal and would evaporate in the piping before ever actually reaching the motor. AND I've also heard that CAI is better because cold air is less dense and more can flow in.

Anyone know if there is any proof to what I have read through research and said on here.

:banana:
 

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Depending on the design, an SRI can produce as much gain as a CAI but generally, a CAI will produce more gains. If the SRI places the filter in the heart of the engine compartment, the warmer air will prevent as much gain. However, if the SRI is designed to place the filter near the front of the engine compartment (by the headlight) you can get a cool stream of air into it.

Getting water in the engine is a real concern with a CAI. It's not that uncommon but it is a real danger when it happens. Some water (i.e. spray) isn't a problem, the problem is when the filter gets submerged it sucks in ONLY water and fills the cylinders with water. Since water doesn't compress, you get what’s called hydrolock. If you are lucks it just causes the engine to stall out. Worst case scenario: the engine breaks (block cracks, bent connecting rods, etc). It does happen and I have seen it. The reason it happens is that most CAI’s put the filter low hear the front wheel. Driving through even a moderate puddle in the rain can cause damage.

If you live where you see a lot of standing water, I'd avoid a CAI but if you are careful and/or live where it's dry most of the time, a CAI isn't a problem.
 

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if you want to do it well....then get yourself....

a "proven gain" cone filter £75-100
2 x 45degree 53mm diameter silicone bends £40
2 x 53mm silicone joiners £20
8 x screw clamp hose clips £10
about a meter (3ft) of stainless steel piping £10

right, then....lets get funky...

1. remove the airbox, feed pipe, MAF, 45 degree blackpipe (and AIT sensor), battery, battery tray, the cold air feed (right of battery), front right foglight (if you have them )

2. put the first 45degree silicone bend on the throttle body, then cut about a 20cm length of the SS pipe, attatch this to the first 45degree bend, on the end of this goes onto a silicone joiner and then the MAF.

3. The next length of pipe needs to be long enough so that the end would just poke through the wall under the battery tray....test fit this on the MAF with the other silicone joiner, and mark it so that you know where to cut the hole.

4. then get your angle grinder out and cut a hole where you marked. then fit that piece of pipe, followed by the other 45degree bend, and then onto the end of that put the cone filter.

5. now you have to modify the top piece of Stainless Steel pipe so that there is a space for the AIT sensor. this is simple relatively simple....first cut the fitment for the AIT sensor out of the old 45 degree black elbow, then use a hole saw to cut a hole for it in the SS pipe.
Then use window putty from any DIY shop, (but you need the type that goes hard!) to seal the origonal fixture, to the SS pipe.

6. Once that putty has gone hard, put it all back together (with the AIT at the bottom of the pipe, because it doesnt look wonderful!), and secure all of the pipes with the hose clips. Put the battery tray, and the battery back in...

7. The cone filter should hang vertically, just infront of the fog light hole in the front bumper. I would suggest that you put a bit of mesh behind this hole, just to protect the cone filter from large objects. And also to cut some holes in the black tray underneath the car to increase the airflow.


This is the most effective method because:

1. it retains the AIT which the ECU uses as part of the management.

2. it retains the MAF which is essential for the car to run properly, and it keeps the pipes before and after the MAF as flowing (straight) as possible, as the MAF requires this on an NA car to work 100% effectively

3. it prevents heat soak from the engine through the cone filter, as it is as far from the engine as possible

4. it provides the best air flow to the cone filter, and the coldest air possible, as it is closer to the road!

5. looks absolutely mental!


People say that problems can occur with the water element of an open air intake.
This solution is reasonably resistant to that even though it is fairly close to the road. This is because, firstly, the cone filter sits pointing down and so the water that it does take in drains out again reasonably efficiently, due to air being lighter (per molecule) than water, and so it sucks up the air ALOT more easily than water. And secondly because the air intake has a reasonably lengthed route to the throttle body, this helps because the water has to get a long way up before is can actually be "sucked into the the engine".

If you are really really worried about it, then you could use a aluminium meshed air filter (still NOT a halfords job) instead of a cotton (or other material filter) because then there is no chance of it getting "soggy" and therefore will drain the water off more efficiently that a cottton filter...

Any questions...feel free to ask!
 

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It is also possible to use a `short ram` arrangement on the Scoupe Turbo...... (shield the cone filter from the ajacent hot heater-hose) & duct cold air from the front of the car directly onto it.
http://snap28.photobox.co.uk/42659336240b3...c2dd2079ffc.jpg

A bonnet (hood) scoop will also greatly reduce the temperature of the air in the engine bay which is sucked-in through the filter.

You will gain 1 b.h.p. for each degree Centigrade reduction you make in the air passing through the throttle-body.......whigh is why an intercooler makes such a big difference on this model!.

Nick. :)
 

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just sort of..."for the record" nicks idea is fine for a turbo car, because you go through the air in the engine bay quickly. It works because the warm-ish air from the engine bay get put through the turbo into the engine... and the moer air from out side the car moves into the partial vacuum left in the engine bay (similar principle to the venturi effect. the air from the our side is cooler than the air in the engine bay. The heat shield creates a form of barrier between the hot pipes and therefore hot air, and slows down the diffusion of particles from hot side to cold side.

this WILL NOT WORK to any interesting degree in an NA engine, due to the fact, that the difference "would" be noticed at WOT (wide open throttle), however the NA engine uses so much less air at WOT than the turbo version, that the air hangs around in the engine bay for long enough for diffusion to occur.

This means that the only two effective methods of improving over standard induction systems are to use an enclosed filter. Or to relocate an open filter to outside of the engine bay.

hope this is of some use to somebody...any questions..as usual, please ask



AND before someone asks...

Diffusion is the process of having two sets of differently charged particles (in gases and liquids), i.e. hot and cold, where the kinteic energy of the particles from the hot side is transferred to the cold side as the particles collide. This process will occur until the particles reach a neutral state, whereby all of the particles are evenly charged.
 

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I thought I would post my question here since it is similar.

I have a 1993 N/A Scoupe with the 1.5 liter Alpha engine. I have learned from reading threads on the forum that the air intake temperature sensor is incorporated into the mass airflow sensor, so I do not have any sensors located inside the airbox housing. This means that if I remove parts before the mass airflow sensor, I do not have to relocate any sensors.

I bought this cold air intake from a different seller on eBay. I have taken out the factory airbox to approximate where my cone filter will end up in the engine bay. It looks as though the cone filter will end up between the left radiator fan and the transmission. Here is my question: does the fan blow air on the radiator or away from the radiator? The direction the fan blows I think would affect how much air and what temperature air goes into the cold air intake filter. How will this location of the filter affect performance gains?
 

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I have a 1993 N/A Scoupe with the 1.5 liter Alpha engine. I have learned from reading threads on the forum that the air intake temperature sensor is incorporated into the mass airflow sensor, so I do not have any sensors located inside the airbox housing. This means that if I remove parts before the mass airflow sensor, I do not have to relocate any sensors.

I bought this cold air intake from a different seller on eBay. I have taken out the factory airbox to approximate where my cone filter will end up in the engine bay. It looks as though the cone filter will end up between the left radiator fan and the transmission. Here is my question: does the fan blow air on the radiator or away from the radiator? The direction the fan blows I think would affect how much air and what temperature air goes into the cold air intake filter. How will this location of the filter affect performance gains?
It sucks air in from outside into the engine bay (it would be fighting a losing battle otherwise...)

See if you can route it somewhere else, although it shouldn't make much of a difference. Air volume is just as imprtant as air temperature. The whole idea is to get denser air into the intake. If that is done by volume that's just as good, although high-volume cool air is even better!

Where in NE? I'm in the People's Republic of Mass myself.
 

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Thank you for the reply.

I am glad that posts in the Scoupe forum still get replies. That was my first post, and I expect to post more in the future. As a background, I just bought the Scoupe in August and have not done much with it. It has an issue with the transmission, so I am sure that I will be doing research about that issue on here when I am ready to tackle it. Word is that the automatics were bad, so I might do a manual conversion.

Anyway, I am glad to know that at least my intake setup should work. I have tinkered around a little bit more, and it looks as though the original airbox (to my surprise) drew air in from inside the left fender and the typical spot in the front of the engine bay. If I cut my aluminum pipe, I could do a short ram intake behind the battery, or not cut the pipe and place the cone filter between the radiator and transmission, where I originally asked.

I am in New Massachusetts myself (just kidding, Southern New Hampshire).
 

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A SRI won't suck up puddles. A CAI can suck up puddles. The closer to the ground you place your CAI, the shallower of a puddle it takes to destroy your engine. There are water traps for some of the better CAIs. But make no mistake, if you suck up a puddle and that water makes it up to your combustion chamber, that is MAJOR engine damage.

With a FI engine, you lose 1% efficiency for every 10°F (about 6C) over ambient you get. So controlling heat helps to preserve the power your car makes. N/A engine benefit from cold air almost just as much. So an SRI (inside the engine compartment)needs to suck cold air to make power. The benefit of a CAI is that the air comes from the outside. I'm in Florida where we get frequent torrential rain so I have a SRI.

The thing to do is to tune the SRI to work with your engine by measuring the intake air temp (I use the Torque app) and experimenting with different arrangements over a known controlled route over a known consistent amount of time. I use my ride to work on days with very light traffic. A shield to seal the filter from the engine is important and a way to get air from the outside is important. Metal and black poly (plastics) materials soak up heat, so exhaust wrap and reflective tape can help to keep temps down too. Air flow, insulation and tweaking the layout of your car's engine compartment can go a long way to make a SRI suck cold air.

There is convective heating from hot air circulating around and setting up the engine compartment for flow from the front of the engine to the rear and out is important. Most engine compartments are sealed to keep out dirt, keep in noise and make the car generally less hassle to keep up. If you want to install a pod filter, get ready for more maintenance. If you're here in this thread, you are all about messing with your engine and shoving your head under the hood though. Remove the rubber seals from the front and rear of the hood to get air moving. If you have fake vents, mod them to open them up. You can remove your windshield washer bottle if that promotes air flow, move stuff around, get rid of plastic air dams- whatever it takes to get the air moving. Every car is different and everyone has a different degree of modification they are comfy with. Reflective tape wrapping the hoses and pipes that are supposed to stay cool helps to keep the heat out (you can do this with your CAI tube too because it can heat soak). Exhaust wrap can insulate them and protect from heat soak. I have my intake tube exhaust wrapped and reflective taped and my Intake temp after a 45 min highway drive is 8°C over ambient. In traffic it is 12°C over ambient. This is significantly less than with the stock airbox and my car does not heat soak as badly as it used to and cools down a lot better and faster. That's with a SRI not a CAI.

There's also radiating heat. Turbos, coolant hoses, exhaust parts- they radiate heat. This heats up the stuff nearby directly by cooking them with the heat waves radiating off. Reflective tape on the cool stuff reflects this heat off. Exhaust wrapping the hot stuff keeps the radiating heat in. As an added bonus, exhaust wrap keeps the exhaust/turbo components hot and that makes exhaust gasses flow better. The down side is that I read that exhaust wrap can stress metal and cause welds to crack. I guess I'll find out in due time (hopefully not). Wrapping the radiating heat sources in reflective tape only makes them radiate heat that much more efficiently. Use exhaust wrap for this stuff.

Exhaust wrap for the hot stuff. Reflective tape (or both) for the cold stuff.
 

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Short Ram would result to heat soak compared with Cold air intakes.
I'm not noticing it all that much (1.6L Accent) and it was ~100 degrees today.
 
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