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Discussion Starter #1
which method should be used to bleed the brakes on our car other than using one of those automatic vacuum bleeders. ive trying bleeding them with the 2 man method but my pedal still seems to be soft/mushy

thanks
 

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Then you should be ok with air bubbles in theory. But a soggy pedal is an indicator of bubbles in the line. Did you bleed all four corners?

1) You should only be moving the bleeder screw about a 1/4 turn from open to close.
2) The screw HAS to be closed before the upstroke on the brake pedal.
3) If you don't have a solid seal on the bleeder screw threads or top you can be getting bubbles in through there.
4) Bleeding in order? RR/LR/RF/LF (as far as I am aware that's the order).
5) The correct fluid recommended by the OEM in there?

Sometimes bleeding can be a pain in the behind. I usually buy big containers and go through the whole container to get happy with results. This is most likely because I am not a pro at it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Then you should be ok with air bubbles in theory. But a soggy pedal is an indicator of bubbles in the line. Did you bleed all four corners?

1) You should only be moving the bleeder screw about a 1/4 turn from open to close.
2) The screw HAS to be closed before the upstroke on the brake pedal.
3) If you don't have a solid seal on the bleeder screw threads or top you can be getting bubbles in through there.
4) Bleeding in order? RR/LR/RF/LF (as far as I am aware that's the order).
5) The correct fluid recommended by the OEM in there?

Sometimes bleeding can be a pain in the behind. I usually buy big containers and go through the whole container to get happy with results. This is most likely because I am not a pro at it.
I'm going to give it another shot tonight after I replace my caliper, maybe I didnt have enough patience with it, or I might have been letting air in by not closing it properly. I hate bleeding brakes with a passion
 

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Pump Pump hold..... ;)
 

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Pressure bleed... push the fluid through.
 

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You should also gravity bleed them for awhile before you pressure bleed. That almost always gets all the air out. Just crack all your bleeders and let them drip away. Keep an eye on the reservoir so it doesn't run dry. Then pressure bleed them.

You said you're replacing calipers? Make sure that all your connections are tight, that sinking pedal could be from a fluid leak.
 

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I'm going to give it another shot tonight after I replace my caliper, maybe I didnt have enough patience with it, or I might have been letting air in by not closing it properly. I hate bleeding brakes with a passion

About the time you start getting pissed you begin to have headaches like this. Too much back and forth repetition squatting or laying all bunched up and twisted. Bleeding brakes is a cold beer job best suited for a couple buddies trying to enjoy the day. Having the wife pump and hold while you diddle the bleeder can be as futile as trying to deal with customer service via India on a bad connection.
Try to get the car up in the air some and get comfortable down there then take your time. When your wrist starts hurting take a break. Just make sure to close it all the way each time BEFORE your assistant gets ahead of you and lets it up.:rolleyes:
 

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Pump Pump HOLD!!!.....



;)
 

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^ What he said! It CAN be a nightmare. Gently clamp off that rubber brake line leading to the caliper. Open the bleeder valve and watch the fluid escape out of the back as the piston retracts into the cylinder...as well as any trapped air inside. Remember to remove the clamp when finished on the reinstall and before bleeding.
 

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^ What he said! It CAN be a nightmare. Gently clamp off that rubber brake line leading to the caliper. Open the bleeder valve and watch the fluid escape out of the back as the piston retracts into the cylinder...as well as any trapped air inside. Remember to remove the clamp when finished on the reinstall and before bleeding.
"Gently clamp off that rubber brake line leading to the caliper' = A big NO... NO!!! Squeezing/Kinking/Hanging of the brake hoses can lead to problems with your brake system especially when it comes to ABS/VSC. It can cause restriction in fluid movement with adverse effects on the brake system. There is no guarantee that the hose will return to its original internal diameter.
 

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as per hmaservice

Brake System Bleeding

? Do not reuse the drained fluid.
? Always use genuine DOT3/DOT4 brake Fluid.
Using a non-genuine DOT3/DOT4 brake fluid can cause corrosion and decrease the life of the system.
? Make sure no dirt or other foreign matter is allowed to contaminate the brake fluid.
? Do not spill brake fluid on the vehicle, it may damage the paint; if brake fluid does contact the paint, wash it off immediately with water.
? The reservoir on the master cylinder must be at the MAX (upper) level mark at the start of bleeding procedure and checked after bleeding each brake caliper. Add fluid as required.
1.Make sure the brake fluid in the reservoir is at the MAX(upper) level line.
2.Have someone slowly pump the brake pedal several times, and then apply pressure.
3.Loosen the right-rear brake bleed screw (A) to allow air to escape from the system. Then tighten the bleed screw securely.
Front

Rear

4.Repeat the procedure for wheel in the sequence shown below until air bubbles no longer appear in the fluid.

5.Refill the master cylinder reservoir to MAX(upper) level line.
 

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I use a vacuum pump at the bleeder screw. I clean the threaded area on the bleeder screw, then back it out a bit and apply some liquid thread sealant. Put the clear hose on the bleeder screw and use a small hose clamp to secure it. Then crack the screw open 1/4 to 1/2 a turn and pump up some vacuum. Sit back and watch the show.

You can also use the pedal pump method using a clear hose, a clear bottle and some thread sealant.

You drill a hole in the bottle cap big enough to push the clear hose through. Then put a short bolt in the end of the hose and use a small clap to secure the bolt. Just above the bolt in the hose cut a 3/8" vertical slit in the hose. Then put the hose in the bottle and thread on the cap. Clean the area around the bleeder screw, loosen it and apply some liquid thread sealant. Use a small hose clamp to keep the hose secure on the bleeder screw. Then slowly pump away at the break pedal. When you let up on the pedal do so slowly too.

The fluid will force the slit in the hose open and come out of the hose and then the slit will collapse shut when the pressure is off. Once you have done a pump or two the end of the hose is immersed in old fluid and with the thread sealant on the bleeder screw no air gets back into the system.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks guys for the replies, so i took my time and bled them until I saw no air bubbles, the brake pedal feels a lot better but there is still a little give before you feel the brakes being applied. I honestly dont know what the brake pedal is suppose to feel like anymore because its been some time since i replaced the pads and bled them properly. After replacing my rear brake caliper I noticed another problem. After my caliper came out of place I went and retightened all of the caliper bolts and guide pin bolts to be on the safe side, but I notice now that my driver side front caliper makes a clunking noise when the brake is applied hard. All the bolts are tight (didnt have the torque specs) and I thought maybe it might be my end link because they also make a clunking noise when going over a bump but Im not sure if its the same problem, the 2 noises are similair but not the same.
 

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"Gently clamp off that rubber brake line leading to the caliper' = A big NO... NO!!! Squeezing/Kinking/Hanging of the brake hoses can lead to problems with your brake system especially when it comes to ABS/VSC. It can cause restriction in fluid movement with adverse effects on the brake system. There is no guarantee that the hose will return to its original internal diameter.
I can see your point. Absolutely. I'm talking about just a mild clamping with a pair of vise grips. GENTLE is the operative word, here. My goal is too prevent any fluid in the piston from reaching back up and contacting the fluid that's upstream in the lines. Doesn't take that much pressure to close off that itty-bitty ID. I guess I'll find out when it comes time for me to replace my pads.

On letting the caliper "hang," by its own weight, or the line becoming "kinked?" I agree with you 1,000%.

Replaced brakes for the last 40 years on my cars as well as others, using that clamp method. Never had an issue, YET. And in fairness, none were ABS, either, and there is always a first time. LOL So, your point may have merit. I do know this: the one time I didn't clamp the hose replacing the wife's front/rear pads of an older Volvo, that crap worked itself up into the lines as I pushed the pistons back in for pad clearance. It eventually got into the master cylinder. The seals deteriorated. Inside the reservoir was filled with "darkened" fluid. Guess who had to replace that? Despicable and idiotic me! :mad:
 

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I can see your point. Absolutely. I'm talking about just a mild clamping with a pair of vise grips. GENTLE is the operative word, here. My goal is too prevent any fluid in the piston from reaching back up and contacting the fluid that's upstream in the lines. Doesn't take that much pressure to close off that itty-bitty ID. I guess I'll find out when it comes time for me to replace my pads.

On letting the caliper "hang," by its own weight, or the line becoming "kinked?" I agree with you 1,000%.

Replaced brakes for the last 40 years on my cars as well as others, using that clamp method. Never had an issue, YET. And in fairness, none were ABS, either, and there is always a first time. LOL So, your point may have merit. I do know this: the one time I didn't clamp the hose replacing the wife's front/rear pads of an older Volvo, that crap worked itself up into the lines as I pushed the pistons back in for pad clearance. It eventually got into the master cylinder. The seals deteriorated. Inside the reservoir was filled with "darkened" fluid. Guess who had to replace that? Despicable and idiotic me! :mad:
With regards to retracting the piston to make room for the new brake pads..... release the bleeder screw to allow an escape route for the excess fluid therefore eliminating any issues with contamination of the brake system. As for the brake hoses... I came across this issue while watching a local weekly auto mechanic's show where a problem relating to wheel lock-up was associated with a partially crushed hose. The host who runs a very good garage stated that one should never squeeze/kink/hang brake hoses due to the possibility of creating restrictions in the line. I personally have made it a habit to replace the brake fluid every two years to try and prevent any issues with old fluid causing problems with seals/abs modules... etc.
 
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