Hyundai Forums banner
1 - 20 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Battery warning light on my terracan is so dim unless you shadow it with your hand etc it is just not visible.it used to be bright like the others I never noticed when it stopped being bright.
Only found this when the alternator failed and I was stuck with flat battery, new alternator fitted but bulb is still very dim on turning on ignition so that seems to rule out it was something to do with the old alternator wiring etc.
Worried now if say belt failed and not able to see warning as could have disaster with no water pump.
Local​ auto electrician unable to help said that is the best he thinks it will be now as if in wiring back to the alternator that is to complicated to tackle.
Any ideas anyone.
In the meantime I have ordered a cigarette socket volt meter/USB fitting.
David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,733 Posts
Not sure if your cluster uses bulbs or LED's on the PCB, but if it uses bulbs, you could try swapping in a new bulb.

OTOH, when the alternator failed on my 2002 Focus, I never got a warning light, I was driving along and the tach went crazy and the radio turned off, and I pulled off the road and the car wouldn't start ...
 

·
Registered
Drives : Nissan NV200 Flies : Rans S6ES
Joined
·
18,173 Posts
Hello David, let's see if this not so local auto electrician can help.

On the back of the alternator there's a connector with 2 wires on it. One wire should have a constant 12V (battery sense wire), the other should show zero volts while the ignition is off (battery warning light wire). What I would try is disconnect the connector and measure the voltage on the two terminals with the ignition off so you can identify which wire is which. Next, use a length of wire and link the battery warning light wire (the one with no voltage on it) to the battery negative terminal or some other good ground. Now switch the ignition on and see if the battery light is brightly lit.

If the warning light is still dim in the above test, the next thing I would try is remove the orange link connector from the engine bay fusebox....see below. Now use your link wire to ground terminal 12 on the socket in the fusebox. Next, switch the ignition on and see if the warning light is bright. Make sure the link connector pinout at the bottom of the photo is orientated correctly. The star on the pinout donates an empty terminal so use that to locate terminal 12 if the pinout diagram is the wrong way round.

Let me know how you get on with those tests and if your light is still dim we'll decide what to try next.

Regards.
Scottie.

 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Scottie
I will try this as soon as I can, will look for the battery sense wire location (I didn't fit the alternator) looking at the alternator from above last week I only noticed the charge cable set in a cover and what looked like a multi plug both on the side of the alternator. In my youth all the wires use to be connected to exposed pillers orspades on the back end.
I will report back. The fuse box is correct same as mine. Further to the other response to my query I did check the bulb, tried it in another location as well just fine.
David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Hi Scottie
No wires on back vacuum brake pump mounted there. Charge cable and one plug in cable both on the side of the alternator. Both these are loomed together for a few inches to a pair of joints the charge cable in a box joined by eyelet and bolt to cable disappearing into large loom, the plug in cable is piggyback jointed fixed to the lid of the charge join box which looks to be a plug together joint. Then also disappears into the large loom. It's not clear if this cable is a two wire cable but can I assume this is the sensing wires. The plug into the alternator is hard to access to get out and looks to have a clip of some sort which will be difficult. The joint is easy to access but again looks to be locked by some sort of clip. If they are the wires would it be ok to take the actions you suggest from the joint first to see what results
David
PS sorry for the double post
 

·
Registered
Drives : Nissan NV200 Flies : Rans S6ES
Joined
·
18,173 Posts
sorry for the double post
Don't worry about it. It happens all the time but it get's a bit messy when there are two threads running relating to the same fault.

madarin said:
No wires on back vacuum brake pump mounted there.
Well, I said on the back but I just meant somewhere on the alternator there will be a two pin plug. I forgot about the vacuum pump being mounted on yours.

madarin said:
The joint is easy to access but again looks to be locked by some sort of clip. If they are the wires would it be ok to take the actions you suggest from the joint first to see what results
Yeah, I don't see why not. It's the same two wires so just apply the initial voltage test at the joint connector. In fact I've got my work computer here now so I should have a full wiring diagram for the diesel charging system....see below.

So according to the diagram the charge warning light wire is blue with an orange trace stripe and the battery sensor wire is yellow. The joint connector in the diagram is the orange plug on the engine bay fusebox, and as you can see terminal 12 on that connector is the wire routing to the warning lamp on the instrument cluster. My guess is there's a high resistance somewhere on the warning lamp circuit between the bulb and the alternator so the way I'd go about finding it is to just ground the warning light wire at convenient points along the circuit until the lamp fully illuminates. Once it fully illuminates you'll know that the high resistance is somewhere between the point you just grounded and the previous point, you follow?

 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Scottie
I have done the first test (before I read your last post) got the plug out of the alternator and found zero volts wire connected it to battery neg and bulb is bright. So assume that​ means there is no resistance in the wire from there to the panel warning bulb if I followed your last advice correctly, is that correct, if so what do I have to look at next please
David
 

·
Registered
Drives : Nissan NV200 Flies : Rans S6ES
Joined
·
18,173 Posts
Hi Scottie
I have done the first test (before I read your last post) got the plug out of the alternator and found zero volts wire connected it to battery neg and bulb is bright. So assume that​ means there is no resistance in the wire from there to the panel warning bulb if I followed your last advice correctly, is that correct, if so what do I have to look at next please
David
Yeah that means there is no resistance in the wire from the point where you grounded it to the bulb. If you grounded the wire right at the alternator that suggests the resistance is within the alternator itself which is a little odd since you said the same thing happened with the original one too. Unless of course there is high resistance in the alternator ground which might explain why the fault is happening on a second alternator and might explain why you ended up with a flat battery in the first place.

Try reconnecting the alternator plug and connect your ground wire onto the alternator casing. Turn the ignition on and see if the warning light is illuminated bright. But don't run the engine with the ground wire attached to the alternator. If the alternator does have a bad ground your link wire might get very hot when the engine is running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Scottie
Yes did test right from the plug which goes into the alternator. Will try earthing the case later this morning.
Had started to think about how there was no return circuit but as the alternator is bolted to the block and the original unbolted and the new one re bolted the connection should be good and if it was an internal thing the new alternator should not have it.
Thanks David
 

·
Registered
Drives : Nissan NV200 Flies : Rans S6ES
Joined
·
18,173 Posts
Yeah, your right. A bad ground to the alternator seems unlikely but it is where evidence is leading us.

I've never had the alternator off a Terracan. There isn't perhaps rubber mounts on the alternator brackets which would isolate it from the engine block? I've come across that a few times in the past. Never on a Hyundai, mind you but I'm just trying to think why two alternators aren't able to ground the warning lamp properly.

Just a thought...does your car have a towbar with a split charging circuit by any chance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Hi Scottie
Yes does have a split system, I used the trailer socket last week ok but have never used the caravan charge socket which I think is an extra added on wire to the pos post on battery with an in line 30amp fus and cable tied, the wire goes under the door strips toward the tail, today I found when doing the below checks the fuse blown but blown a long time ago, I replaced it after checking all fuses as below.
However I now have a bigger issue. Used the car last night and again this morning after that first test yesterday OK, Went earlier to do the earth to case but decided to double check yesterdays test so unplugged from alternator and to make sure I had correct wire again checked for volts, and found zero volts on both wires, thinking maybe this was it a dodgy wire in the short bit to the plug joint I parted it and I could just see a blue /orange stripe going into the joint but not sure which pin it would be connected to checked for volts at all pins but again no volts, so plug all back together and turned on ignition and all the dash warning lights are out and of course engine will not start. All the other electrics seem to be OK just warning lights out, the other dash lights like door open work dash illumination ok it seems just the engine warning lights. So appear to have blown something, checked all the small spade fuses none blown including the one in handbook as No 21 10amp instrument cluster, but I am not sure how the ones that look a bit like relays get checked or how they come out, I assume just pull or squeeze and pull never had to before and as i read the handbook some of these protect the fuse boxes.
so unfortunatley I have had to book it in next week as it has now gone beyond me.
regards david
 

·
Registered
Drives : Nissan NV200 Flies : Rans S6ES
Joined
·
18,173 Posts
Hi Scottie
Yes does have a split system, I used the trailer socket last week ok but have never used the caravan charge socket which I think is an extra added on wire to the pos post on battery with an in line 30amp fus and cable tied, the wire goes under the door strips toward the tail, today I found when doing the below checks the fuse blown but blown a long time ago, I replaced it after checking all fuses as below.
A properly wired split charging relay should connect to the charge warning light circuit, but often rather than wire the system properly towbar installers cut a corner and wire the split charge relay via the ignition instead. I was gonna suggest taking a look at yours to see how it has been wired up. It shouldn't really be able to make the battery light dim even if it has been properly connected to the warning light circuit but I'm just trying to cover all the bases.

madarin said:
However I now have a bigger issue. Used the car last night and again this morning after that first test yesterday OK, Went earlier to do the earth to case but decided to double check yesterdays test so unplugged from alternator and to make sure I had correct wire again checked for volts, and found zero volts on both wires
That's odd.

madarin said:
thinking maybe this was it a dodgy wire in the short bit to the plug joint I parted it and I could just see a blue /orange stripe going into the joint but not sure which pin it would be connected to checked for volts at all pins but again no volts, so plug all back together and turned on ignition and all the dash warning lights are out and of course engine will not start.
Holly crap (as they like to say across the pond), what have we done?

madarin said:
so unfortunatley I have had to book it in next week as it has now gone beyond me
You've booked it in? WOW...slow down mate....give a spark a chance.

Right, so there's no 12V supply to the battery sense wire at the alternator now. Looking back at the charging circuit diagram we can see that 12V originates at fuse link 4 in engine bay fusebox 1, which I think is the smaller fusebox right next to the battery. You've maybe just popped that fuse when you were messing with the wires at the alternator. Looking up fuselink 4 in the owner's manual shows that it also just happens to supply power to the ignition switch, so that probably explains why there are no ignition lights and the non start.

So, make sure the alternator wiring is all reconnected. Then what I'd suggest is you temporarily replace fuselink 4 with the power window fuselink which is the pink one near the center of the row of fuselinks in the photo I posted earlier....see below.

Hopefully that will at least get the engine started so you can drive it to the garage and save yourself some money on a recovery.

 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Scottie
Thanks I will have a go at that, small point, the picture you sent earlier highlighting the second test pinouts is the same box, but I have found the power window no5 in the manual in box 2 engine compartment and the no4 is in box 1 engine compartment as the picture.
Let you know later
Did I see somewhere you are in Scotland or is that imagination. I am going to be in Inverness for 2 months July.
David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi Scottie
Well done up and running thanks.
Also did the neg to alternator case but that didn't bring the battery warning light up bright.
Do you want pics of my fuse boxes as they are different to yours may be useful for you?
Thanks David
 

·
Registered
Drives : Nissan NV200 Flies : Rans S6ES
Joined
·
18,173 Posts
Hi Scottie
Well done up and running thanks.
Also did the neg to alternator case but that didn't bring the battery warning light up bright.
Do you want pics of my fuse boxes as they are different to yours may be useful for you?
Thanks David
Glad I managed to get you mobile again, David. You should find those fuselinks on ebay if you can't find them locally.

I'm still not sure what's going on with the battery warning light though. Your earlier test seems to point towards the alternator itself. What you could do to confirm that, if the blown fuselink hasn't put you off, is disconnect the 2 pin connector at the alternator and connect a 12V bulb between the battery positive post and the warning light terminal on the back/side of the alternator. If that bulb is also dim it really has be be a fault within the alternator that's causing it, assuming the alternator itself has a good ground. If you don't own a 12V test lamp you could maybe remove the boot lamp and connect a couple of wires to that for the test.

Yeah, photos of your fusebox might come in handy when the next guy has a problem with his Terracan. I usually find my fusebox photos on ebay ads but there weren't any Terracan parts for sale.

And yes, I'm up here in Scotland. Not as far up as Inverness, mind you. I'm near Clydebank to the west of Glasgow.

Cheers.
Scottie.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Hi
Picking link and spare up later today, also borrowed proper test light, nice pointy insulated probe with light in handle and insulated crocodile clip.
I will have another go over the weekend (need to calm my nerves).
I will post again with what I find, pity you are so far from the daughters she is 40 miles on from Inverness or I could have booked you to take a look when up there.
Will attach photos when I boot up computer instead of this tablet.
Regards David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Hi Scottie
pic's attached of small fuse box and larger fuse box which are side by side in engine compartment as you know, also pic's of the legands in the box lids.
just tried drag and drop with pic's but something not right, if I fail I will post you a link to them on photobucket
After the holiday I think I will go through all the checks from scratch again now I have a proper test probe.
regards david
Links to photobucket pics plus one I got showing the joint close to the altenator of the charge cable (corroded in this persons pic) and piggybacked on it the sense cable joint which also has a third wire from a sensor into the water pump I think below the altenator area.

http://s210.photobucket.com/user/kelvinj3/media/Fuse boxes Terracan/SDC10114_zpsuojqh2l2.jpg.html
http://s210.photobucket.com/user/kelvinj3/media/Fuse boxes Terracan/SDC10113_zpszm45tbu3.jpg.html
http://s210.photobucket.com/user/kelvinj3/media/Fuse boxes Terracan/SDC10112_zpsdg53toij.jpg.html
http://s210.photobucket.com/user/kelvinj3/media/Fuse boxes Terracan/SDC10108_zpsol0churg.jpg.html
http://s210.photobucket.com/user/ke...rracan/FullSizeRender-16_zpsmgsj12ir.jpg.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi Scottie
Hope you had good Easter break and are still watching this thread.
Today i have started again and repeated tests now I have a proper test lamp

bulb wire to neg post test, bulb glows bright

neg post (plug back in of course) to altenator case, bulb stays dim

bulb wire terminal in altenator to pos post, test lamp bulb about 50/70 % of full bright if compared to test lamp grounded to neg post/or altenator casing

So you think resistance is internal to altenator ?

MY thoughts, the old altenator had or developed the same or simply failed to illuminate the bulb when it failed because until the new altenator was fitted and I started looking closely for the bulb I thought the bulb warning was not working at all. Once the battery went flat and I found no charge it was so dim I did not see it so assumed it was not working or lit maybe it was not working then, part of the altenator failure I do not really know.
Hope the pic's are usfull some time
Regards David
 

·
Registered
Drives : Nissan NV200 Flies : Rans S6ES
Joined
·
18,173 Posts
Hello David.

Yes, the results of your tests seem to confirm that the resistance is within the alternator. I'm still a little concerned that the same fault seems to have been happening with two different units though. I'm wondering if a difference in the voltage between the main alternator output terminal and the battery sense terminal might be causing the regulator to add resistance to the field circuit. The warning light gets it's ground via the field winding so that might cause the warning light to be dim.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Hi Scottie
Would there be any point in doing this
Do the last test i.e connect the bulb wire terminal in the alternator to the pos post with a multi meter in the circuit to see the voltage, then take the battery voltage this maybe show the voltage loss. Realise it only proves it is internal (if it works).
Looks like I will have to live with it.
Or could I break into the bulb wire, connect to a buzzer and back to ground. It may buzz enough to hear even with reduced voltage, or am I missing something like that would have the buzzer/bulb on permanently. If feasible can you help with how I should do it correctly i.e maybe Id suitable buzzer fuze etc.
Thanks David
 
1 - 20 of 61 Posts
Top