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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I haven't been on here in a while but have some interesting info to share, I apologize if this has been covered before.

I rarely have my elantra out on the highway but in the last month have had to make several trips. The last trip was on snow and ice covered roads and I have to say I have never felt so uncomfortable behind the wheel of a car in my life. Going anything above 60km/h it felt like the car was fish tailing and was going to spin off the highway. It honestly felt like all 4 wheels where pointed in different directions, freakin scary! This car has never really felt quite right, even on dry highway roads it was constant corrections to keep it straight. Anyway after doing a quick internet search I found a few people describing the same condition. They had taken their cars back to hyundai and the dealers would say they need winter tires or the alignment is 'within spec'. I decided to take my car to a specialty alignment shop. That is all they do is alignments of cars, trucks, semis you name it. They told me they would perform a 4 wheel alignment. When I went back to pick it up the guy says he noticed that I have 2 new tires on the car and he wondered If they replaced worn out tires. I said no I had 2 punctures recently that could not be repaired why. He said this thing was way way out of wack and should by all rights be eating tires. The rear wheels had major negative camber and were also toed in more than a 1/4". To correct this required some shimming. The front also had negative camber and I can't remember what he said about toe. He said it was all really bad but sadly would have probably been within hyundai specs which he says are way,way to big.

Anyway I paid my $125 and took it out. Within a block I could already tell something was different. The steering wheel would return to centre with much more force than before, it really wants to straighten the car out when you let go. Also the overall steering feel is greatly changed. It feels tighter, sportier and more feedback so to speak. Best of all the thing goes straight as an arrow. No more constant corrections and the faster you go the steering feel becomes heavier and just seems like there is so much more feedback in a good way. I have not taken it out on an icy highway drive yet as our snow is all gone for now but I really feel that this was worth it. Another bonus is the road noise has been slightly reduced and also when driving over expansion joints the car does not skip to one side anymore. That annoyed the heck out of me. KYB shocks helped a tiny bit with that but this stopped it.

Anyway if you are having a similar problem and want to give this a try I would recommend a specialized alignment shop and not Walmart or your dealer. This is not your typical 4 wheel alignment job. I doubt either would even know how to do the alignment on the rear of these cars and they may just tell you its not possible but it is.

I should mention I also have meccatune lowering springs and kYB rear shocks. The springs caused some of the negative camber in the front (required more shimming to correct) but not the rear.

Anyway thought I would share, sorry for the long post.
 

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Very interesting, thanks for sharing! I was under the impression the rear on this car was non adjustable as well.
 

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Oh, it's adjustable in the rear, just not conventionally. It is a "shim" issue. Not many will go to the trouble. Requires some major disassembly in the back from what I understand in previous posts on here.

"sbr711" is one of our "official" pros on this topic, as well as many others. He definitely will have an educated and expert opinion due to his particular set of skills with these cars.
 

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Anyway I paid my $125 ......The steering wheel would return to centre with much more force than before, it really wants to straighten the car out when you let go....... steering......It feels tighter, sportier and more feedback......goes straight as an arrow...... Another bonus is the road noise has been slightly reduced and .....does not skip to one side anymore.
I got lucky & that's the way my car has always driven, except I still have the rear wheel side skip. Probably, one of the reasons my average mpg is high too. As tires wear or I change them, I'll keep in mind how the car should always drive & give it a proper realignment when necessary.

Thank you for your information.
 

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The rear wheel alignment is non-adjustable. The rear alignment range on the E is very large so just about every car is in spec. If not in spec a new rear axle is needed. There is no shim kit but from what I understand from my local body shop, Napa sells a wheel adapter that is put on the axle and adjusts the camber. ???

The front toe is easily adjustable but if camber has to be adjusted a cam and bolt kit can be purchased. The camber is
usually only needed after changing the suspension like lowering.

This link is from e-bay but Rock auto is cheaper about $12.
Specialty Products 81260 Cam and Bolt Kit | eBay

If you want the longest life from your tires rotate them religiously every 5k miles.

If you lower the car get it aligned every time you touch/change the height as you are changing the angles of the suspension.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The alignment shop needed no special 'kit' to both correct the negative camber and toe in the front and rear. They used shims and also they said they had to grind some material away on one part, can't remember what one. I Believe they said the rear rotors and caliipers had to come off. They have done a lots of elentras and said they are the worse cars on the road today hands down with this issue. Hyundai specs are so wide its ridiculous.

This is without a doubt the best $125 I have ever spent on a car in my life. I didn't even realize how bad the car handled before until I drove it after the alignment. I always noticed it was jittery, hopped to the side on bumps and required constant corrections to keep it straight but now that its aligned perfectly it really seems like a whole new car. Just the way the steering wheel feels it wants to go straight, there is actually some resistance now when you turn the wheel. Before it was lifeless, I figured they had just overdone the electric power steering but now I know it was do to the alignment. It is 'heavy' on centre now.

Today the wind is blowing like crazy and my commute has a short freeway run that is always in a cross wind. This would previously make for a squirrelly ride. The car is so much more compliant now, it's planted.

I can't help but think all those comments and reviews on the steering/handling of these cars are cause by poor wheel alignment.

Anyway the true test will be running in on an icy highway again, I am confident that it will be greatly approved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The rear wheel alignment is non-adjustable. The rear alignment range on the E is very large so just about every car is in spec. If not in spec a new rear axle is needed. There is no shim kit but from what I understand from my local body shop, Napa sells a wheel adapter that is put on the axle and adjusts the camber. ???

The front toe is easily adjustable but if camber has to be adjusted a cam and bolt kit can be purchased. The camber is
usually only needed after changing the suspension like lowering.

This link is from e-bay but Rock auto is cheaper about $12.
Specialty Products 81260 Cam and Bolt Kit | eBay

If you want the longest life from your tires rotate them religiously every 5k miles.

If you lower the car get it aligned every time you touch/change the height as you are changing the angles of the suspension.
You are correct the camber 'usually' only needs to be adjusted after installing lowering springs which I have. This would only affect the front though not the rear since its a solid axle. In my case the front did have slightly more negative camber (probably caused in part by the 1.25" drop) but the rear was also negative buy a lot. I feel my springs had little to no affect on the handling/steering though. It has never driven as good as it does now for sure. Hate to say it but it feels more like the Hondas I have owned for years. Other than the fact it rides like a cement truck but that is self inflicted due the the meccatune springs.
 

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Hows about a copy of the finished align print showing before and after numbers ?

Yes, total toe at rear as called by Hyundai is beyond ridiculous.. great for tire wear and stupid handling car...


I got a print somewhere of an Elantra that rear toe is beyond STUPID, and it not centered with centerline of car.. all I could do is set fron ttoe and have a nice day.

Sure you can swap another rear axle... how much better or worse it going to be from the old unit for camber and toe, and which way is rear going to point from centerline (thrust angle) ??
 

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The alignment shop needed no special 'kit' to both correct the negative camber and toe in the front and rear. They used shims and also they said they had to grind some material away on one part, can't remember what one.
There is no shim kit or shims for the rear special or not. Go back to the shop and ask them to show you the shims they installed and the part that they grinded as you won't be able to find them.


I think srb711 has the correct approach. A finished alignment
printout showing the improvement after alignment. I don't think you'll get one showing any improvement in the rear.
 

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Sure you can swap another rear axle... how much better or worse it going to be from the old unit for camber and toe, and which way is rear going to point from centerline (thrust angle) ??
I understand your point but:

If the rear torsion beam axle is so distorted it is out of spec and not due to accident I think:

1 You could get Hyundai warranty service to replace it.

2 It has to be at least in spec after warranty work or it would qualify as a Lemon under Lemon Law leading to a new ride or a great deal by arbitration or settlement. Or whatever procedure is appropriate.
 

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There is no shim kit or shims for the rear special or not. Go back to the shop and ask them to show you the shims they installed and the part that they grinded as you won't be able to find them.


I think srb711 has the correct approach. A finished alignment
printout showing the improvement after alignment. I don't think you'll get one showing any improvement in the rear.

What he most likely got was some generic shim modified to fit his car :)

But a final printout should come with the alignment also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
There is no shim kit or shims for the rear special or not. Go back to the shop and ask them to show you the shims they installed and the part that they grinded as you won't be able to find them.


I think srb711 has the correct approach. A finished alignment
printout showing the improvement after alignment. I don't think you'll get one showing any improvement in the rear.
Are you saying that you don't think they did anything? I can say for sure they did, I can't even describe in words how different this car is to drive now. It's night and day, the back actually follows the front now and doesn't try and pass me. I think the 'shims' they use are nothing more than washers. Trust me guys there is nothing traditional about the way they align the rear of this car, there are no actual adjustments. Any walmart or tire store is going to tell you it can't be done but it can. I have been taking vehicles to this place for years and there has been nothing they can't align including some pretty slammed civics and preludes back in the day. Last summer they aligned the wheels on my 34' 5th wheel that burned up the tires on 1 side after 1 summer of use. After this summer they still look brand new. They are legit and I wouldn't take a vehicle anywhere else.

I will go back and see if they have the print out, the guy was showing me the slip but I really didn't pay any attention to it.
 

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Alignment printouts "can" be altered to show "all green", so maybe watch them if possible.


If they're good, they save your measurements and can re-print.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Alignment printouts "can" be altered to show "all green", so maybe watch them if possible.


If they're good, they save your measurements and can re-print.
For me the proof is in the result, I am very pleased. The guy only showed my the slip because he was so surprised how out if wack it was to begin with.

That said I will go back to them and see if they kept it and also get more details of how they accomplished it.
 

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I understand your point but:

If the rear torsion beam axle is so distorted it is out of spec and not due to accident I think:

1 You could get Hyundai warranty service to replace it.

2 It has to be at least in spec after warranty work or it would qualify as a Lemon under Lemon Law leading to a new ride or a great deal by arbitration or settlement. Or whatever procedure is appropriate.
OK,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I got fixed up and sat down and loaded up this align I did a few weeks ago,, take this for a test drive..

This car is 100% in specs as everybody likes to say,, I dont know what the finished product is, it is in specs... you know whats,, specs is a wide open playground.. look at this,, this is you UD/MD Elantra chassis with the solid axle in the back.. LOOK AT THE TOES,, it's in specs..

Lets get real now,, lets apply some simple drafting class architecture here, lets draw a square, or better yet, build your new shed out in the yard using the numbers seen here.. pretty lop-sided,, right ??

Tons of "my car all over road/handles poorly".. I ask what align numbers is, and I get the "they said it is in specs".. When you set a car up, or have concerns, you need to be able to READ THE NUMBERS!! My box looks like crap, but it's in specs.. but the current fad is to change the electronic steering program to sport mode is the cure.. horse hockiee.. you car handle like crap because the align is jacked out of reason, your tires wear like nobody business..but they said it in specs.

Ok, now for the recent align pics.. as noted, Hyundai in specs for rear is beyond belief.. if somebody come up with fixture to bend the rear beams to straighten/square/minimize the unreal camber and toe numbers out back, they be rich beyond wildest dreams..

Remember, this car is in specs,, lets look at the numbers now..



 

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It appears that sbr711 has proven that old adage: "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure." If the data can be "manipulated" to show an indicated result, well...

That possibility just scares the daylights out of me. So, who/what can we trust? Those of us that rely on what we consider reliable sources. This is the perfect set-up for unscrupulous technicians, albeit a handful. Not the majority. The real science is finding the reputable one(s).
 

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Are you saying that you don't think they did anything? I can say for sure they did, I can't even describe in words how different this car is to drive now. .
I don't doubt that the car needed an alignment and that they did adjust the front end. What I have said from the beginning is the rear end is non-adjustable and nothing was done to the rear end.

I don't doubt that your car drives, handles and feels much better.
 

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OK,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I got fixed up and sat down and loaded up this align I did a few weeks ago,, take this for a test drive..

This car is 100% in specs as everybody likes to say,, I dont know what the finished product is, it is in specs... you know whats,, specs is a wide open playground.. look at this,, this is you UD/MD Elantra chassis with the solid axle in the back.. LOOK AT THE TOES,, it's in specs..

Lets get real now,, lets apply some simple drafting class architecture here, lets draw a square, or better yet, build your new shed out in the yard using the numbers seen here.. pretty lop-sided,, right ??

Tons of "my car all over road/handles poorly".. I ask what align numbers is, and I get the "they said it is in specs".. When you set a car up, or have concerns, you need to be able to READ THE NUMBERS!! My box looks like crap, but it's in specs.. but the current fad is to change the electronic steering program to sport mode is the cure.. horse hockiee.. you car handle like crap because the align is jacked out of reason, your tires wear like nobody business..but they said it in specs.

Ok, now for the recent align pics.. as noted, Hyundai in specs for rear is beyond belief.. if somebody come up with fixture to bend the rear beams to straighten/square/minimize the unreal camber and toe numbers out back, they be rich beyond wildest dreams..

Remember, this car is in specs,, lets look at the numbers now..
Ok I see where the rear alignment numbers are in spec especially camber numbers with -1.7 left and -1.9 right. What I don't understand is how we get the bottom image from these camber numbers. ???

Rear
Toe-in
Total.............lL-Rl≤0.23°
Individual...0.25°(+0.2°/ -0.15°)

Camber angle......-1.5° ± 0.5°


l L - R l means deviation of the left and right individual toe values.
L : Left toe value
R : Right toe value



 

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I don't doubt that the car needed an alignment and that they did adjust the front end. What I have said from the beginning is the rear end is non-adjustable and nothing was done to the rear end.

I don't doubt that your car drives, handles and feels much better.
I'm betting that he went to someone who is in the business of aligning vehicles for a living and works to make a car good and not just in spec and they did fix all 4 corners.

You can straighten out most anything made of metal.
 
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