Hyundai Forums banner

41 - 60 of 90 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
I quickly looked at Hyundai UK and Hyundai PL websites - seems that no models over there use CVT. Either manual, 7-DCT or 6-auto gearboxes are avaialable. No cvts. Interesting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Went to Dealership and for god sake they said no technician work on Saturday. OMG.. I book the appointment and specifically told them the issues. Will have to come back some time this week. Will let you guys know later. Apparently the 2019 Kia Forte (cousins of our 2020 elantra with same engine and cvt) have this same issue. Google 2019 kia forte cruise control engine rev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
776 Posts
From the owners manual:
"While driving, keep your engine speed (rpm, or revolutions per minute) between 2,000 rpm and 4,000 rpm."

It did went a bit over 4k.. that's why I said it's bad for my 2k miles engine :(. Will do an oil change before the new year (3k miles) and might do a transmission fluid change before 5k mark. The 2019 Kia forte IVT/CVT complaints on NHTSA really got me worry. Hope this isn't another Nissan CVT nightmare.
Your engine is going to be fine. It's designed to be able to go above 4000 RPM. The guidelines in the owner's manual are there to help with break-in, but if it goes above 4000 RPM it doesn't mean that you will do damage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Wouldn't you think that if you were just pressing the gas and going xxx vs having the cruise control set at the same speed the rpm's would be the same?
Well that's not what happens in my 2020 Elantra Value Edition.

What happens when you put it into cruise is the rpm's go up!

View attachment 441663

Another thing, I had the cruise set to 75 mph (About 2750 rpm) and I pressed on the gas to go 80 MPH. As I was pressing on the gas I
watched my tachometer go down to around 2250 rpm!!!

So far no one at the Hyundai dealership has been able to answer why.
I have raised the same issue with Hyundai, through both the Hyundai customer service line and with my dealer. I took my 2020 Elantra Value Edition to my dealer and took a test ride with the shop foreman. He verified the RPM problem when cruise control is activated. The service manager contacted the Hyundai field technician who, in turn, contacted Hyundai engineering. I heard just today, 1/15/20, from the service manager after having talked to the field technician that the IVT transmission is designed to operate that way.

The service manager and shop foreman don't think it should operate that way. Most of all, I don't think it is right. The effect of this design flaw is decreased gas mileage and increased engine wear. We all need to raise this issue through our dealerships to make a big enough stink that Hyundai will correct the deficiency. In the meantime you can get around the problem by going into manual mode with the transmission in cruise control and upshift to eightth gear to reduce engine speed and increase gas mileage.

All 2020 Elantra owners with the IVT transmission should bring this issue to your dealer ASAP so we can get this design flaw corrected.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I have raised the same issue with Hyundai, through both the Hyundai customer service line and with my dealer. I took my 2020 Elantra Value Edition to my dealer and took a test ride with the shop foreman. He verified the RPM problem when cruise control is activated. The service manager contacted the Hyundai field technician who, in turn, contacted Hyundai engineering. I heard just today, 1/15/20, from the service manager after having talked to the field technician that the IVT transmission is designed to operate that way.

The service manager and shop foreman don't think it should operate that way. Most of all, I don't think it is right. The effect of this design flaw is decreased gas mileage and increased engine wear. We all need to raise this issue through our dealerships to make a big enough stink that Hyundai will correct the deficiency. In the meantime you can get around the problem by going into manual mode with the transmission in cruise control and upshift to eightth gear to reduce engine speed and increase gas mileage.

All 2020 Elantra owners with the IVT transmission should bring this issue to your dealer ASAP so we can get this design flaw corrected.
I brought my car in during a weekday and looked at it with the technician. He did an ECM update which helped smoothed the car start and stop issue (I mentioned this in a different post) but didn't help with the cruise control issue. He said he will check with Hyundai people to see if there are any update. Haven't heard anything since 2 weeks ago. Kia have the same issue with this new CVT. Some already escalated this with Kia but haven't seen/heard anything from them yet.

I am still driving with my foot on highway. Will try the manual mode and put in the highest gear and see. Thanks for the tip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,493 Posts
Use to design engine tachometers, been retired for 12 years now and just realized none of the tachs I have will work on the Elantra. Most basic and a classic is strictly a mechanical tach that make physical contact with the rotating device.

Others depend on some contact with the ignition system, points, switching transistor or even an inductive pickup for a spark plug wire that is deeply buried in the Elantra. Have a digital one, needs a piece of reflective tape on the rotating member, not convenient for a front wheel drive vehicle.

Shop manual is not much help, tach receives signals from either the M or C can data link whatever the heck that is.

Just has me curious exactly where the tach is hooked up on these things, there is a CAS or crankcase sensor that triggers the ignition circuit. Would be interesting to hook something up directly to the engine to learn if it is really skyrocketing the rpm.

Now you do have ears, when you hit the cruise control, do you hear the engine rev up? Sure can hear it on our 2017 Limited in just shifting from 6 to 5, really when shifting from 6 to 3.

Cruise control in these things cost next to nothing, Vss sensor connected to the drive axle gives pulses proportional to engine speed. With throttle by wire, gas pedal is a potentiometer that feeds an analog to digital converter, in turn drives a servo in the throttle body. When you switch to cruise, digital from gas pedal is switch to a preset code when you hit the switch so that either supplies more or less gas determined by the same Vss sensor.

Shame on lower price vehicles they just eliminate that cruise switch, only one wire, selects different resistors. Or you need is the switch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Meant to say the tach went down to 2500 when I went 80 mph.
I have a honest reply for you, as I have drive the 2017 elantra (6AT) and 2020 elantra (IVT). I know exactly what you are referring to and the sad truth is that you are right. the 2020 Elantra will remap the shiftpoints to sport mode when you enable cruise control, you have normally drive in normal or smart mode you will see the rpm move up 500-700. The reason is for the car to be more responsive to sudden changes going uphill, so that it will maintain set speed faster. I have yet found a setting to disable this.

Also for reference the 2017 elantra doesn't move shiftpoints up when cruise control is enable, it keeps the rpm at 'normal' drive setting shiftpoints.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,493 Posts
Hyundai on the internet is claiming a 10% increase in fuel economy with the CVT transmission.

"Hyundai is shooting for a corporate average fuel economy of 50 mpg by 2025. Not only is it planning on offering more engines that utilize direct injection and turbocharging, but it is also looking to replace its current line of torque-converter- equipped automatics with dual-clutch units and continuously variable transmissions."

Certain amount of truth to this statement with my 2017 Limited around town, getting better fuel economy in manual mode driving in 2nd or 3rd gear, In automatic mode can even get into sixth gear at 28 mph, this is putting a heck of a stain on the engine. My son that is stuck with a Chrysler mini-van due to federal law of having over two kids only in the rear seats are no longer permitted to sit in the front seat due to our stupid congress and air bag laws. His 6th speed in town is really loading down the engine barely above engine idle.

Also have idiot engineers the feel the lower the drive ratio, the better the fuel economy.

What really hurts our fuel economy is this stupid winter gas adding butane and oxygen to it, took awhile for those A-holes in the EPA to realized our current emission controls are worthless until the vehicle warms up so instead of getting 120,000 BTU's of heat with so-called summer gas, only getting 90,000 BTU's with winter gas.

And not based on temperature but on the calendar. With had 85*F temperatures on Thanksgiving days, and 65*F temps on New Years day, all depends on the direction of the winds. But only getting 35-37 mpg with winter gas instead of 50+ mpg with summer gas.

Have a stop watch takes less than a minute for the engine to warm up on cold days, for that minute, little extra oxygen and butane may help but with a hot engine and perfectly operating emission control paying a huge extra price for fuel.

Been working for the EPA since 1972, the supreme commanders and dictators in this so called land of the free. Not one of them could last five minutes working for a profit making company. Most don't even have a scientific degree/ Don't help us, but either fine us or close us down, responsible for moving our entire semiconductor industries out of this country. We needed electroplating done on some products, had to pay for shipping to Mexico, perfectly legal one foot across the border.

But getting back on topic, very well possible CVT is giving you better fuel economy at higher rpm speed than a fixed gear transmission. Also loading down a tiny 2.0L engine wears it out much quicker, you learn this stuff in engineering and in practice.

Oh different degrees of winter gas all over the country is tying up our limited number of fuel lines with all the different grades, EPA never thought about this, never think about anything. How do you get to be the head of any government agency? You help the president get elected is the only requirement.

Dingbats are claiming global warming with carbon dioxide, its only resonant to a very narrow spectrum of the sun rays, has a very low specific heat. and occupies less than 0.06% of the atmosphere, no way is this causing global warming and the trees love it. But this is what you have to put up by having crooks or idiots in office. Solution is carbon tax.

Ethanol is burning an equivalent of fossil fuels, electric vehicles by fossil fuels with losses in conversation, actually using more fossil fuels. But in the congested cities, moving this pollution to other ares of the world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Okay you poor people listen up. I’m tired of your moaning and groaning about something so trivial. You have a cvt transmission in your 2020 Elantras and 2019 Fortes. You know how cvt’s work right? Okay good.
Now, forget everything you know about cvt’s because you lovely people have griped and complained that you HATE cvt’s and you want your normal slush box torque converter step transmissions back. Well the manufacturers listened to your endless whining (grow up already) and they have begun to design cvt transmissions with fake “shift feel”. Well thank goodness they did that because now all your poor souls can stop whining. But wait, Hyundai/Kia has gone even further and added a feature that raises the rpm automatically when you hit the cruise control button! Oh my, and here we are again all the little ants are freaking out again.

Listen people...The raised rpm in cruise control IS BY DESIGN...They did this because they know you would complain about the rpms raising and lowering while going up and down inclines and all of you would be lined up at the dealerships, crying nonetheless, saying that your transmission is slipping and that you hate how cvts work. Give me my slush box back you’ll say!
So the raised rpms give the engine more power and the transmission can stay in a certain gear ratio without having to raise rpms going up inclines. Basically they have tried to make your cvt transmission not feel like a cvt transmission. You’re welcome.

And people calm down, like seriously. My father rented a 2019 Forte and took it on a multi state highway trip. He commented on the same rpm phenomenon while in cruise control and he was averaging 45-48mpg. He said the rpms stayed steady and didn’t raise when climbing hills, other cvt’s the rpms will gradually rise when more power is needed. Oh and btw, just because the rpms are higher in cruiser control doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting worse gas mileage. Your engine is an Atkinson cycle engine. It is all controlled by the engine management system and it is 100% possible to program the engine to run in Atkinson cycle more frequently in cruise control to offset any mpg loss.

There ya go peeps. Dont go complaining to your dealers and say your tranny is messed up because honestly you’ll look stupid. Instead, how about asking them about the features and characteristics of the cvt transmission and ask them what is normal operation. So tired of people complaining about something and theorizing outcomes when they don’t know all the science and engineering that is involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
833 Posts
The raised rpm in cruise control IS BY DESIGN...They did this because they know you would complain about the rpms raising and lowering while going up and down inclines and all of you would be lined up at the dealerships, crying nonetheless, saying that your transmission is slipping and that you hate how cvts work.
Does this car come with a drive mode button?
One possible compromise would be to use the higher-RPM-in-cruise technique in sport mode only.
That could be done with a software update.
Even better would be another button to turn the fake shifts on or off.
Then everyone could tailor the transmission's behavior to what's comfortable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Does this car come with a drive mode button?
One possible compromise would be to use the higher-RPM-in-cruise technique in sport mode only.
That could be done with a software update.
Even better would be another button to turn the fake shifts on or off.
Then everyone could tailor the transmission's behavior to what's comfortable.
No idea, don’t own one. I just know how these new cvt’s are designed to operate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Okay you poor people listen up. I’m tired of your moaning and groaning about something so trivial. You have a cvt transmission in your 2020 Elantras and 2019 Fortes. You know how cvt’s work right? Okay good.
Now, forget everything you know about cvt’s because you lovely people have griped and complained that you HATE cvt’s and you want your normal slush box torque converter step transmissions back. Well the manufacturers listened to your endless whining (grow up already) and they have begun to design cvt transmissions with fake “shift feel”. Well thank goodness they did that because now all your poor souls can stop whining. But wait, Hyundai/Kia has gone even further and added a feature that raises the rpm automatically when you hit the cruise control button! Oh my, and here we are again all the little ants are freaking out again.

Listen people...The raised rpm in cruise control IS BY DESIGN...They did this because they know you would complain about the rpms raising and lowering while going up and down inclines and all of you would be lined up at the dealerships, crying nonetheless, saying that your transmission is slipping and that you hate how cvts work. Give me my slush box back you’ll say!
So the raised rpms give the engine more power and the transmission can stay in a certain gear ratio without having to raise rpms going up inclines. Basically they have tried to make your cvt transmission not feel like a cvt transmission. You’re welcome.

And people calm down, like seriously. My father rented a 2019 Forte and took it on a multi state highway trip. He commented on the same rpm phenomenon while in cruise control and he was averaging 45-48mpg. He said the rpms stayed steady and didn’t raise when climbing hills, other cvt’s the rpms will gradually rise when more power is needed. Oh and btw, just because the rpms are higher in cruiser control doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting worse gas mileage. Your engine is an Atkinson cycle engine. It is all controlled by the engine management system and it is 100% possible to program the engine to run in Atkinson cycle more frequently in cruise control to offset any mpg loss.

There ya go peeps. Dont go complaining to your dealers and say your tranny is messed up because honestly you’ll look stupid. Instead, how about asking them about the features and characteristics of the cvt transmission and ask them what is normal operation. So tired of people complaining about something and theorizing outcomes when they don’t know all the science and engineering that is involved.
You seem to know everything about this issue. Are you an automotive design engineer? There are a lot of people who don't think these IVT transmission should work like they do. Why don't you talk to the design engineers at Hyundai and report back to us exactly why the transmission works the way it does. It seems counterintuitive to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
You seem to know everything about this issue. Are you an automotive design engineer? There are a lot of people who don't think these IVT transmission should work like they do. Why don't you talk to the design engineers at Hyundai and report back to us exactly why the transmission works the way it does. It seems counterintuitive to me.
Actually I agree with buddylpal on this one. I compared my own experience with both AT and IVT Elantra, the same car, engine, fuel, drive route and habits. the fuel economy saving is almost 1.2L/100KM. That's a lot of fuel saving with the IVT, which leads me to believe that the AT is revving it's engine more than it needs to be under highway cruise control. while the IVT providing optimum rev will experience a lot of rev changes as it goes up/downhill. I can see why by design using the sport drive mode shift point can solve this issue.

It is counter intuitive to see cruise control might be less fuel efficient, But I think this is the tradeoff for people complaining rubber band effect on CVTS. You can trick yourself of this problem by always driving in sport mode, this way the cruise control will be the same rev when switch on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Am I an automotive engineer? No. For those of you who insist there is something wrong with your car, that’s fine, it doesn’t bother me. Complain to Hyundai or whoever. Today’s CVT’s are trying to mimic conventional transmission feel as best they can. People complain about the cvt rubber band feeling so Hyundai has designed a cvt transmission that has tried eliminating it as much as possible. How you think the transmission should operate and how the engineers think it should operate are two different things.

Thank you wufai, it just seems a lot of people don’t fully understand things sometimes ;).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,493 Posts
Ironically torque converter lockup in what could be called slip and converting mechanical energy into heat energy increased fuel economy. With cruise control on, the engine speed would increase going up a hill. Slippage in the torque converter increasing rpm did overheat the transmission. A solid coupling was more efficient.


Shows the basic principles of CVT, unlike a torque converter, mechanical energy is not converted into heat.

One BTU of heat energy raises on pound of water 1*F is equal to 778.169 foot pounds of energy. Sounds incredible, this little bit of heat could lift a 778 rock on foot.

Have to admit, very little knowledge of how an automotive is mechanically operative. But very familiar with snowmobiles using a rubber belt between that widening and narrowing driving sheave to change ratios. At idle sheaves are so wide very little friction to the belt. Belts do get hot and wear out quickly depending on how you rod these things.

Use some kind of metal belt in cars. What I do know with clutch and transmission vehicles, FWD is a first class pain in the but to work on these things. First problem, half axles that have to be removed first are rusted in solid to the front wheel bearings, and this is only the beginning.

With my motorhome, RWD about an hour to remove that huge transmission by myself, with FWD, need two extra strong guys and a full weekend to remove that transaxle. With an automatic that transmission is half the engine and hold that engine up. With all those extra fuel lines, coolant hose, and AC, have to be extremely careful not to move the block.

With a manual and a hydraulic clutch, entire transaxle has to be removed to replace the clutch, even worse, same job to replace a hydraulic leaking slave cylinder.

Far better to buy an automatic and replace fluid when needed and drive it sanely than a manual, that clutch disc is wearing whenever you start off.

Good question on that steel belt in a CVT?

Better snowmobiles carried a spare belt, guys that rodded the heck out of these things could wear a belt out in less than a day. Not like a gear with teeth, is friction between that variable sheave and belt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I just did my test in manual mode. At 8th gear, the rpm surprisingly doesn't even get above 2200 when driving at 75mph on cruise control. However, losing power on incline to the point the car turn off cruise control itself. What I did on highway now is to get up to speed on foot, then switch to manual and push up twice to get to 8th gear. When I first swtich to manual, the car think I'm in sport mode so it push the Rev really high. Up shift twice to 8th gear reduce the RPM so I think the car in normal drive mode is set at 6th-7th gear on highway to keep power on incline.

I think I'm putting a lot of stress on the electrical for doing that so might switch to manual when getting on ramp. And I don't hate CVT. Just hope they last longer than Nissan and Subaru CVT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,493 Posts
52 Chevy had a two speed Powerglide, we called it TurtleTorque, those four holes in the fenders of a Buick is where Dyan Flowed out.

Not sure of the advantages of CVT, infinite number of speeds? Cheaper? Doesn't appear to be more reliable.

Huge steam locomotive only has two pistons 180 degrees apart, no transmission, can go over 100 mph, with a 15 inch piston, two of them, only 200 psi of steam pressure. Has over 71,000 pounds of starting torque and simple valves for forward or reverse. Very simple.

450,000 pound diesel locomotives don't have a transmission either pulling a long train, diesel runs a generator that runs electric motors that have huge starting torque and high speeds.

Airplanes are kind of like CVT's with electrically driven variable speed props, but no drive belts to wear out. Nice to compare what other guys are doing.

My bicycle has 27 speeds, thats insane, three sprockets up front, nine in the rear, if you want to upshift on a progressive in front gear 1, 2, 3, jumping all over the place, need a darn good memory to recall the sequence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Wouldn't you think that if you were just pressing the gas and going xxx vs having the cruise control set at the same speed the rpm's would be the same?
Well that's not what happens in my 2020 Elantra Value Edition.

What happens when you put it into cruise is the rpm's go up!

View attachment 441663

Another thing, I had the cruise set to 75 mph (About 2750 rpm) and I pressed on the gas to go 80 MPH. As I was pressing on the gas I
watched my tachometer go down to around 2250 rpm!!!

So far no one at the Hyundai dealership has been able to answer why.
I just had the transmission replaced in my 2020 Elantra, doing the same thing. Failed after 2200 miles. Brand new. I have contacted NTSB and Hyundai I am going to get to the bottom of this. Hyundai admits they are having some issues with transmission failures. RPMs should not increase. I have driven 6 2020 Elantras and they all do this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
If this is new automotive technology, no one seems to know about it! Hyundai seems oblivious to the problem, When these trannys all start to fail they may look into it. No other car on the road has an increase in RPM's when the cruise is engaged. Mine goes up 500-600 rpm as soon as cruise is engaged. I lost the tranny at 2200 miles, just had it replaced under warranty. Tested 6 2020 Elantras all of them do the same thing.
 
41 - 60 of 90 Posts
Top