Hyundai Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
People have said that when the volume increases with bass decreases.

Do we know if it done by raising the frequency of the bass? I.E. 20Hz-20kHZ at lower levels....... then 70Hz-20kHz at higher levels?

or

Is this done via bass volume attenuation? I.E. low volume....0db then -??db at high volumes?


If it is done via volume attenuation, wouldnt a remote bass control for the amp or powered subwoofer not fix this?

If I can just tap off the rear speaker output into a passive LOC then into a powered sub would be my ideal plan. I am not wanting to spend >$300 on this system since I do not listen with the factory radio over 25 anyways. I dont want to spend for an amp, powered LOC, and a sub.

Sorry I keep asking all these questions since I have been out of car audio over 20 years. Please bear with me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
People have said that when the volume increases with bass decreases.

Do we know if it done by raising the frequency of the bass? I.E. 20Hz-20kHZ at lower levels....... then 70Hz-20kHz at higher levels?

or

Is this done via bass volume attenuation? I.E. low volume....0db then -??db at high volumes?


If it is done via volume attenuation, wouldnt a remote bass control for the amp or powered subwoofer not fix this?

If I can just tap off the rear speaker output into a passive LOC then into a powered sub would be my ideal plan. I am not wanting to spend >$300 on this system since I do not listen with the factory radio over 25 anyways. I dont want to spend for an amp, powered LOC, and a sub.

Sorry I keep asking all these questions since I have been out of car audio over 20 years. Please bear with me
The quote below is from a user that had already upgraded his door speakers but had stock HU:

"I added the subwoofer to my system and spent some time with it.

It sucks! The stock head unit definitely rolls off the lower bass. My amplified door speakers can easily handle most of the bass the head unit puts out. All the subwoofer really does at this point is make that bass louder. There is no lower bass extension.

Lower bass seems to be attenuated into non-existence. If I lower the low-pass filter and increase the gains, it is still gone. I also tried the amplifier's included "bass boost" remote, which claims to boost 50 Hz. Still nothing.
"


This quote is from a user that was upgrading the Infinty system but the principle still applies:

"The main things you’ll need to buy in addition to the amp and subwoofer is an installation kit and a line output converter (LOC). The installation kit should have all the wires, connectors, fuse, tie-wraps, and other odds and ends. The kit that I ordered is below. It is advertised as 8 gauge, but it is definitely not 8 AWG, which is a standardized wire size. Leaving off that designation allows them to sell a smaller wire than you’d expect, but for my purposes with a load of 150 W, even the misrepresented 8 gauge will suffice. The speaker wire is especially small and it could be used for connecting the LOC to the external amplifier since they will not be carrying any current, but I used normal 16 AWG gauge here because I had it. I would be hesitant in using it between the amp and subwoofer because it is so small.

Neither the Elantra’s head unit nor external amplifier have RCA outputs to go to the new amplifier, so the LOC is required to convert the speaker level signals down to line level. I originally ordered the PAC SNI-35 LOC because it was cheap, but later changed my mind because I started worrying about the bass roll-off. Most factory car stereos attenuate the bass frequencies as volume increases because it stresses the inferior speakers too much trying to reproduce those frequencies. But when you add in a subwoofer that is built for playing low frequencies, you’re not left with much signal in the bass range.

I instead bought the Audio Control LC2i which is an active LOC (requires power) that is designed to restore the bass that was reduced by the factory system. It’s a bit more expensive than the cheaper, passive LOCs but all the reviews I’ve read of people who upgraded to an LC2i after having a passive LOC said it made a big difference. I figured it would be worthwhile to do it right the first time instead of upgrade it later.

The LC2i has a feature that will trigger its own remote 12 V output (the signal that tells your amplifier to turn on) whenever it detects a signal on the speaker wires. However, I’ve read that this feature is not compatible on all factory systems, so rather than take a chance and have to redo it later, I decided to bypass the LC2i’s remote trigger and wire it up directly as you normally would. There is a jumper on the LC2i that enables and disables this feature.

You could avoid the LOC issue if you buy an amplifier that accepts speaker level inputs, but then you don’t get the bass restoration. There are other products that perform a similar function, but either way you have to add another component into the system.
"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
People have said that when the volume increases with bass decreases.

Do we know if it done by raising the frequency of the bass? I.E. 20Hz-20kHZ at lower levels....... then 70Hz-20kHz at higher levels?

or

Is this done via bass volume attenuation? I.E. low volume....0db then -??db at high volumes?


If it is done via volume attenuation, wouldnt a remote bass control for the amp or powered subwoofer not fix this?

If I can just tap off the rear speaker output into a passive LOC then into a powered sub would be my ideal plan. I am not wanting to spend >$300 on this system since I do not listen with the factory radio over 25 anyways. I dont want to spend for an amp, powered LOC, and a sub.

Sorry I keep asking all these questions since I have been out of car audio over 20 years. Please bear with me
Not sure if you have upgraded your door speakers or not but for $350 for the following components this is all you really need above upgrading your door speakers. I added this exact setup with replacing the door speakers with Kicker CSC65's and the stock tweeters and HU. My system went from a 5 to a 9 on a 10 point scale. I am all about getting the most bang for your buck but if you want to spend $300 go ahead and spend $350-$400. You will be happy you did. The passive LOC is going to be no help.

I have searched and searched for detailed specs on the HU and have come up with nothing. No idea how the bass roll off is achieved but it is definitely there. Based on the first quote above my guess is that the roll off is achieved by raising the low frequency because the user lowered his LPF and increased gains and still had no low bass.

https://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-KSC-SW11-Compact-Enclosed-Subwoofer/dp/B00BO8O9XQ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1KUKVDYUGIMET&keywords=kenwood+ksc-sw11&qid=1564487795&s=gateway&sprefix=kenwood+ksc,aps,126&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/AudioControl-Channel-Converter-AccuBASS-Subwoofer/dp/B00IIL0LW0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3I3ZM7GSOHFJH&keywords=lc2i+audio+control&qid=1564487838&s=gateway&sprefix=lc2i,aps,126&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Alpine-KTP-445U-4-channel-Power-Amplifier/dp/B003VVYL46/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33NBGZGWSJU44&keywords=alpine+ktp-445u&qid=1564487732&s=gateway&sprefix=alpine+ktp,aps,125&sr=8-1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
Sigh. Wish I didnt have to spend so much. If I use the LC2i will I lose fader control??
No. You would just use the bass output only. See this link. Do not use the main output. What is helping with the bass roll off is the Accubass.

The only real advantages of the LC7i is that it will sum the fronts and rears if there is any filtering going on, which I do not think there is with the factory HU, and convert high level inputs to low level inputs for your 4 channel amp. The Alpine will accept high or low level inputs so you do not need the LC7i for the input conversion.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
I can say that there is a ton of processing going on with my base model 2019, time alignment and EQ. I went to Parts-Express.com for my front stage, not positive what sub(s?) I'll be running. I have several to choose from, in my stash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Sorry, I'm not much help with the head unit question, I'm changing mine out. I just wanted to point out that it may actually be processed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
I can say that there is a ton of processing going on with my base model 2019, time alignment and EQ. I went to Parts-Express.com for my front stage, not positive what sub(s?) I'll be running. I have several to choose from, in my stash.
Can you be a little more specific? Did you use some kind of equipment and test all of that or is it just based on your ear? I have looked high and low on the web for detailed specs on the Elantra radios and I came up with nothing. I cannot even find the output power or frequencies.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to put a lot of high end processing in a cheap radio. I understand the bass roll off to protect the speakers and there maybe some other acoustic enhancements.

I am far from an expert and I do not deal with car audio as a professional. What I have stated here is just what sounds good to me in my car. What I have available to adjust, I have been able to adjust to my liking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Based off ears. As I get above 20 ish on the volume it seems the bass drops and the highs come up a hair

The more I listen to what I have now ( Infinity Reference Speakers ) in the stock locations, the more I think I am just going to go for an amplified subwoofer and leave the rest alone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
Based off ears. As I get above 20 ish on the volume it seems the bass drops and the highs come up a hair

The more I listen to what I have now ( Infinity Reference Speakers ) in the stock locations, the more I think I am just going to go for an amplified subwoofer and leave the rest alone.
You will still need the LOC to combat the bass roll off. That is a good compromise if you are looking to spend as little money as possible. I think just adding bass, even to the stock speakers, would be a big improvement. I was on the fence about the Alpine amp to start with. But I read reviews all over the web from all kinds of cars and everyone that got it raved about it. I guess you could always add the amp later if you want.

I was the same, had to go to 20 to get decent loudness. That convinced me that the amp would be a big help. I am happy with it but I agree if you want to spend as little as possible, get the sub first and see if you like it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Can you be a little more specific? Did you use some kind of equipment and test all of that or is it just based on your ear? I have looked high and low on the web for detailed specs on the Elantra radios and I came up with nothing. I cannot even find the output power or frequencies.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to put a lot of high end processing in a cheap radio. I understand the bass roll off to protect the speakers and there maybe some other acoustic enhancements.
I'm not an expert either, frankly, most aren't experts. I know a lot of very knowledgeable people in car audio but I would only consider a few of them experts at it. With that said, I've competed in the past and recently and I do know what I'm listening to (sometimes it's irritating lol.) This kind of processing isn't that expensive anymore, but I too was shocked that the lowest model had processing to this extent. Mobis has obviously done some work on it for some reason. It started when I picked the car up and drove it home, I didn't listen to the radio on the test drive so when I drove it home I turned it on. I'll be damned if I wasn't positive it had a center channel speaker, I sure as **** could not see it though (I was legitimately confused because there was no way this model was time aligned.) When I got home I got out of the car to find no center channel speaker, the pathlengths of the drivers are no where equal so I can't see a scenario where the center is so defined without time alignment.

It also has a surprising amount of mid bass, I assumed nothing of that but was impressed by it. Then I plugged in another radio to test out if I had the correct wire harness and the sound was DRASTICALLY different, not like switching from Dual to Alpine, like switching from processed to not processed.

Now you have me wondering, I have the cheap Dayton calibrated microphone, this weekend I'll get some simple Audiotools RTA measurements with the factory and Sony decks I have, maybe for the sake of argument I'll throw in one of my old school Alpine decks too. I didn't listen for staging when I was testing the wiring, maybe I'll do that too. Would not take too incredibly long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
I also want to make clear that I have the 5 inch screen and a manual transmission, it doesn't get any lower level.

My guess is that they just use the same processing chip across all the trim levels. They just add amplification and an 8 to the higher ones.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top